Eidolon at level one have a max number of attacks at 3. My changeling has claws (racial ability) and my eidolon (right now) has bite and hooves. With this setup I could have bite, claw, claw and hoove natural attacks for a total of 2 eidolon based and two race based. Does this break the three attack rule?
Note, this is for synergist build (non-PFS)
You do not get tour races natural attacks when in the synthesis form. When in your eidolon you take its natural attacks, natural armor, physical stats, etc and lose all of yours. You keep things such as spells, supernatural abilities, and mental stats though.
Perfectly correct, good argument, but let's ignore all that since this is an interesting question.
Instead of racial claws, lets say the summoner multiclasses sorcerer or took eldritch heritage and got themselves an extra set of claws. While I am not entirely sure it applies, the transmutation school says that such abilities can still be called upon even when you are under a transmutation spell. That seems like a vaguely good enough reason to bring this up.
So, is the max attack limit only for natural attacks from the eidolon, or does it also include any sources of natural attacks?
Thanks for the input. I think I'll go bite and slam then for first level as they do the most damage and are both primary attacks.
@Falcar, Im not sure you are correct. Here is the language from the books:
"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks....While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor."
You take its physical stats, base attack bonus, armor and natural armor but you keep your own gear, abilities, etc. except armor. I do not see anywhere in there that says I cant use my claws. While not dispositive of the fact, Herolab also lets me use my claw attacks while fused.
Anyone have a ruling on this?
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Nothing says you can't be born as 43 yr old buffalo with levels in every class in the game...
Point being you have to find where it says you can do something when in regards to the rules
The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks....
@Falcar, Im not sure you are correct. Here is the language from the books:
"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon’s special abilities and the eidolon’s evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon’s maximum number of natural attacks....While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor."
You take its physical stats, base attack bonus, armor and natural armor but you keep your own gear, abilities, etc. except armor. I do not see anywhere in there that says I cant use my claws. While not dispositive of the fact, Herolab also lets me use my claw attacks while fused.
Anyone have a ruling on this?
Yeah...the fact that it is not made very clear within the archetype itself is one of the reasons why many people don't like it.
So instead, I do as I did before, and looked at transmutation spells as a guide. According to that, things like racial claws are tied directly into your form. So if you wild shaped into a wolf, for example, then your changeling claws would not actually exist. But it is not all bad, since you would get the animal's natural attacks in return (wolves aren't a very good trade, but what about tigers with their three attacks plus another couple of claws through rake that can be used in a pounce?).
So, assuming that the synthesist works something like a transmuation spell(it actually seems like it is far more extensive than a spell, since your physical stats are outright replaced), then your racial claws go away.