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I have a first edition bard that was loads of fun to play.
Fighter 8 (Ambidextrous - Two Weapon - plate wearing intimidator)
Thief 6/Thief Acrobat 3 (Total Thief levels 9) More an acrobat, performer than an actual burglar, or cutpurse)
Bard 15 Dervish dancer in combat, and a storyteller, musician-singer out of combat. Adept with healing.
Can such a character be converted to Pathfinder and still feel the same?
I have a first edition bard that was loads of fun to play.
Fighter 8 (Ambidextrous - Two Weapon - plate wearing intimidator)
Thief 6/Thief Acrobat 3 (Total Thief levels 9) More an acrobat, performer than an actual burglar, or cutpurse)
Bard 15 Dervish dancer in combat, and a storyteller, musician-singer out of combat. Adept with healing.Can such a character be converted to Pathfinder and still feel the same?
So is that a singular level 32 multiclassed bard?
Yes. It would be a bard.
You probably won't be AS good as the 1E bard but going straight bard could get most of that covered. Dervish Dancing racists in PF but it's limited to one hand fighting. The Sandman archetype gives sneak
Attack if that's what you're after from the thief part. Otherwise an archeologist archetype gives a good "magic rogue" flavor. Can you elaborate more?
So is that a singular level 32 multiclassed bard?I have a first edition bard that was loads of fun to play.
Fighter 8 (Ambidextrous - Two Weapon - plate wearing intimidator)
Thief 6/Thief Acrobat 3 (Total Thief levels 9) More an acrobat, performer than an actual burglar, or cutpurse)
Bard 15 Dervish dancer in combat, and a storyteller, musician-singer out of combat. Adept with healing.Can such a character be converted to Pathfinder and still feel the same?
Yes. It would have to be.
Once upon a time you couldn't just make a Bard, it was kind of like today's Prestige Classes. And if this character was a human, I commend you for mucking through the dual-class insanity while you leveled from Fighter 8 to Thief 8, since that was absolutely crippling. Have to assume you were a demi-human (or non-human for you young folk).
As for converting that character to PFRPG, there are sacrifices that must be made. You could potentially multi-class as a Fighter/Bard, (although that has little to no synergy) and invest some feats into arcane armor training so you have a chance of casting bard spells in full-plate. There should be little issue slanting the Bard towards an acrobatic character, making Rogue levels pretty irrelevant... which I suppose is how they usually are on any character. By level 32 I'm sure that character would be just as crazy.
As for anything similar in the lower levels? Well, you know what you had to play through just to get to Bard in 1e, so I imagine you're up to being sub-optimal for the early going.
Dervish Dancing racists in PF but it's limited to one hand fighting.
I have nothing useful to add. This is just the funniest thing I've read all day.
Dervish Dancing racists in PF but it's limited to one hand fighting.I have nothing useful to add. This is just the funniest thing I've read all day.
I just got a crazy image of a wizard casting a Furball spell off a scroll then shouting '****ing Autocorrect'.
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This is the character as they were in first edition. I did get concession to play as a wood elf, but still had to go through all the dual classing madness.
Celehir Anorlein,
Sylvan (Wood) Elf Female
Fighter Level 8/Thief-Acrobat 9/Bard 15
total experience 165,724/156,428/1,015,338/applied experience 132,579/125,142/812,270
20% experience sacrificed for extra attack with each hand
"Greetings, and salutations, I am Celehir Anorlein, though some in their ignorance call me Bhaene Sidhe, you may call me Kelly. I find that is easier for your tongue. I am a singer, and dancer, and a sword for hire. I can be your guide in these parts, so tell me; What is your desire?"
Strength <17> 19 (22) +4 th +10 damage 7,500 weight allowance 80% chance to Bend Bars
Dexterity <17> 19 +3 Reaction Adjustment, +3 Missile Adjustment, -4 Defense Adjustment
Constitution <16> 20 +6 HP Adjustment, 99% System Shock Survival, !00% Resurrection Survival, Regeneration 1 HP per 6 rounds
Intelligence <14> 17 +6 Languages, 75% Know Spell, Minimum Spells 8, Maximum Spells 14
Wisdom <15> 19 +4 Magical Attack Adjustment, Immune to first level illusions
Charisma <16> 18 15 Henchmen Managable, Loyalty Base +40%, Social Reaction +35%
Comliness <14> 22 Stunning Beauty +44% Allurement
Saves: PPD 5 (+2) PP 8 (+2) RSW 9 (+2)
BW 9 (+2) Sp 10 (+2)
Armor Class -8 (-4 Rear) THACO 12 Hit Points 160
Weapon Proficiencies:
Longsword +10 th, 1d8 +16 damage, Attacks per round 3
Longsword +10 th, 1d8 +16 damage, Attacks per round 2
Composite Longbow +6 th, 1d8 +10 damage, Attacks per round 3 range 300'
Thrown daggers +6 th, 1d4 +5 damage, Attacks per round 4 range 30'
Ambidextrous
Two Weapon Fighting
Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Longsword (Double Specialization)
Longbow (Specialized)
Daggers, Thrown (Specialized)
Non Weapon Proficiencies:
Blind Fighting, Direction Sense, Gambler's Luck, Riding, Dungeon survival, Wilderness survival, Running, Dance, Acrobatics, Etiquette, Healing, Singing
Class Skills and Abilities:
Backstab x4 Damage, Pickpockets 70% = 55% +15%, Open Locks 57% = 37% +20%, Remove Traps 50% = 40% + 10%, Move Silently 90% = 75% + 15%, Hide in Shadows 81% = 66% + 15%, Hear Noise 35%, Climb Walls 98%, Read Language 45%
Tightrope Walk 100%, Pole Vault 10' 6", High Jumping 6' 3", Standing Broad Jump 8' 0", Running Broad Jump 12' 6", Tumbling Attack +2 TH, Tumbling Evasion 30%, Safe Fall 100% at 10', 30% at 20'
Charm/Suggestion 73% = 63% +10%, Identify Magical Items, Lore, and History of the Item 75% = 60% +15%
Languages: Sylvan, Common, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Orcish, Gnoll, Hill Giant, Storm Giant, Titan, Draconic, Auld Common, Faerie, Angelic, Harmonic, Elysium, Paradise, Gladsheim, Arcadia
Special Equipment:
Canaith Mandolin +25% to Charm-Suggestion, Cure Serious Wounds 1x/day, Dispel Magic 1x/day, Protection from Lightning 10' Radius 1x/day
Cli Lyre +30% toi Charm-Suggestion, Control Winds 1x/day, Transmute Rock to Mud 1x/day, Create Wall of Fire 1x/day
Elven Chain Hauberk +3, Ring of Protection +2 (Both to AC and Saves), Bracers of Arrow Deflection, Cloak of Displacement, Scarab of Protection 12 charges (Magic Resistance 15%)
Ruinwynn +3 Mithril Singing Longsword Sound Burster(On a natural 19 or 20 releases a sonic sound burst on target doing 2d6 sonic damage), Double Attack(on natural 20 only has a 30% chance to strike again,, roll normally for next attack.)
Aeowynder +4 Elven Longsword, Protection from Evil 10' Radius when drawn. Radiant sheds "daylight" in 30' Radius for one hour per day upon command, the time does not have to be continous.)
Mighty Composite Silver Longbow +2, add strength damage to ranged attacks. Range 300'
Daggers of Returning +3 (2)
Other Equipment:
Heward's Handy Haversack, Bag of Holding(Type II), Embroidered Court Dress (+10% Social Reaction), Mask of Disguise (see Hat of Disguise page 100 Unearthed Arcana), Boots of Speed, Girdle of Fire Giant Strength.
Bedroll, Silver Bell, Mirror, Scroll Case, 50 Sheets of Vellium Paper, Quill, Ink Vial (2), Hammer, Silk Rope 100', Whetstone, Waterskin (2), Rations (Elven Bread 1 Month), Grappling Hook, Adventurer's Tool (Shovel, Pickaxe, Prybar in one)
Beltpouch, Caltrips (25), Marbles (100), Blinding Powder (5), Oil Flask (2), Greek Fire (2), Bailing Wire (100'), Trap Switch Mechanism (2), Quarter Staff, Hunting Knife, Wood Axe, Hemp Rope 50'.
2,500 in gemstones, 1,275 gp necklace, Ivory Statuette of Aphrodite(1,000gp value), Ivory Statuette of Adonis(1,000gp value),
12 mithril pieces, 65 platinum pieces, 4,500 gold pieces, 76 silver pieces, 32 copper pieces, 100 strange tokens of unknown origin made of bronze.
The stats in < > are the original witnessed rolls using Unearthed Arcana method.
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Oops forgot the spell list sheet. Bards back then used the druid spell list up to level 5. I kind of liked being a divine spellcaster, with no worries about armor.
Bard Songbook (What I called it.)
Level 1: Songs per day 5
Detect Magic, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Pass without Trace, Precipitation, Purify Water
Level 2: Songs per day 5
Barkskin, Charm Person or Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Feign Death, Flame Blade, Goodberry, Obscurement, Trip
Level 3: Songs per day 4
Call Lightning, Cloudburst, Cure Disease, Neutralize Poison, Protection from Fire, Snare, Waterbreathing
Level 4: Songs per day 3
Control Temperature 10' Radius, Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Hallucinatory Forest, Protection from Lightning
Level 5: Songs per day 3
Commune with Nature, Control Winds, Moonbeam, Pass Plant, Wall of Fire
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Thanks guys for your replies, taking in some of the above advice. Using experience total to determine level on medium advancement path, I put together the following:
Celehir
Sylvan (Wood) Elf Female
Fighter Level 5/Rogue 2/Bard 10 total experience 1,015,338
Background/Character Traits:
Racial: Warrior of Old +2 trait bonus on initiative
Combat: Fencer +1 trait bonus to attacks of opportunity with finesse/fencing weapons.
Elven Traits: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution:30'Base Movement:Low Light Vision: Dreamspeaker (Dream 1/day):Favored Class-Bard +1 vs disarm, and sunder attempts:Fleet-Footed(Run, +2 Initiative):Elven Magic +2 Spell Penetration, +2 Spellcraft for Identifying Magic Items:Keen Senses +2 Perception.
Strength <13> 15 (22) +6 Bonus
Dexterity <15> 17 +3 Bonus
Constitution <12> 16 +3 Bonus
Intelligence <13> 16 +3 Bonus
Wisdom <13> 15 +2 Bonus
Charisma <15> 20 +5 Bonus
Saves: Fortitude: 14 (+2) Reflex: 14 (+2) Willpower: 10 (+2)
Armor Class: 28 = 10 base + 6 Armor + 3 Enchantment + 3 Dexterity + 2 Deflection + 3 Dodge + 1 Shield Bonus(20% Miss Chance)
BaB 15 Hit Points 128 (5d10 + 12d8 + 34) Initiative +7
Weapons:
Longsword(primary) +20/+15/+10 1d8 + 9 damage
Longsword(secondary)+20/+15 1d8 + 5 damage
Composite Longbow +21 1d10 + 5 damage range 300' (Deadly Aim -4 attack, +8 damage)
Thrown daggers +20 1d4 + 8 damage range 30'
Feats - Class Abilities
1)Weapon Focus: Longsword
1)Dodge - Agility 1
2)Weapon Focus: Longbow
3)Toughness - Armor Training 1
4)Dazzling Display: Longsword
5)Deadly Aim - Leaping Attack 1
6)Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding
7)Defensive Weapon Training:Longsword, Evasion, Rogue Talent: Fast Stealth
8)Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Performance, Cantrips, Countersong, distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1
9)Lingering Song, Versatile Performance:Dance(Acrobatics - Fly), Well Versed
10)Inspire Competence +2
11)Two Weapon Fighting
12)Inspire Courage +2, Lore master 1/day
13)Spellsong, Suggestion, Versatile Performance:Sing(Bluff - Sense Motive)
14)Inspire Competence +3
15)Two Weapon Defense, Dirge of Doom
16)Inspire Greatness
17)Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Jack of all Trades, Versatile Performance:Wind(Diplomacy - Handle Animal)
Skills:
Acrobatics(dex)* 10,Climb(str)* 10, Craft:Armor(int) 10, Craft:Weapon(int) 10, Disable Device(Dex)* 10, Escape Artist(dex)* 8, Handle Animal(cha) 10, Intimidate(cha) 10, Knowledge:Arcana(int) 13, Knowledge:Dungeoneering(int) 12, Knowledge:Engineering(int) 12, Knowledge:History(int) 14, Knowledge:Local-Varisia(int) 12, Knowledge:Nature(int) 12, Knowledge:Nobility(int) 12, Linguistics(int) 9, Perception(wis) 12, Perform:Dance(cha) 20, Perform:Oratory(cha) 20, Perform:Sing(cha) 20, Perform:String(cha) 20, Perform:Wind(cha) 20, Profession:Soldier(wis) 10, Ride(dex)* 7, Sleight of Hand(dex)* 8, Stealth(dex)* 10, Survival(wis) 7, Swim(str)* 10, Use Magic Device(cha) 15.
Languages: Sylvan, Common, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Giant, Draconic, Celestial
Songbook 27 rounds of Bardic Performance per day
Cantrips) Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Read Magic
Level One 7/day) Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Ear-Piercing Scream, Expeditious Retreat, Identify
Second Level 5/day) Allegro, Cure Moderate Wounds, Mirror Image, Sound Burst
Third Level 4/day) Cure Serious Wounds, Good Hope, Haste, Major Image, Thundering Drums
Fourth Level 2/day) Dance of a Hundred Cuts, Cure Critical Wounds, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement
Masterpieces:
Dance of 23 steps(-3 Attack, +3 Dodge Bonus, DC 15 + Spell's level to cast) Free Action, 1 round of Bardic Performance.)
Triple Time (+10 to base movement for 1 hour, 1 rnd of Bardic Performance, One Minute Action.)
Special Equipment:
Canaith Mandolin +25% to Charm-Suggestion, Cure Serious Wounds 1x/day, Dispel Magic 1x/day, Protection from Lightning 10' Radius 1x/day
Cli Lyre +30% toi Charm-Suggestion, Control Winds 1x/day, Transmute Rock to Mud 1x/day, Create Wall of Fire 1x/day
Elven Chain Hauberk +3, Ring of Protection +2 (Both to AC and Saves), Bracers of Arrow Deflection, Cloak of Displacement, Scarab of Protection 12 charges (Magic Resistance 15%)
Ruinwynn +3 Mithril Singing Longsword Sound Burster(On a natural 19 or 20 releases a sonic sound burst on target doing 2d6 sonic damage), Double Attack(on natural 20 only has a 30% chance to strike again,, roll normally for next attack.)
Aeowynder +4 Elven Longsword, Protection from Evil 10' Radius when drawn. Radiant sheds "daylight" in 30' Radius for one hour per day upon command, the time does not have to be continous.)
Mighty Composite Silver Longbow +2, add strength damage to ranged attacks. Range 300'
Daggers of Returning +3 (2)
Other Equipment:
Heward's Handy Haversack, Bag of Holding(Type II), Embroidered Court Dress (+10% Social Reaction), Mask of Disguise (see Hat of Disguise page 100 Unearthed Arcana), Boots of Speed, Girdle of Fire Giant Strength.
Bedroll, Silver Bell, Mirror, Scroll Case, 50 Sheets of Vellium Paper, Quill, Ink Vial (2), Hammer, Silk Rope 100', Whetstone, Waterskin (2), Rations (Elven Bread 1 Month), Grappling Hook, Adventurer's Tool (Shovel, Pickaxe, Prybar in one)
Beltpouch, Caltrips (25), Marbles (100), Blinding Powder (5), Oil Flask (2), Greek Fire (2), Bailing Wire (100'), Trap Switch Mechanism (2), Quarter Staff, Hunting Knife, Wood Axe, Hemp Rope 50'.
2,500 in gemstones, 1,275 gp necklace, Ivory Statuette of Aphrodite(1,000gp value), Ivory Statuette of Adonis(1,000gp value),
12 mithril pieces, 65 platinum pieces, 4,500 gold pieces, 76 silver pieces, 32 copper pieces, 100 strange tokens of unknown origin made of bronze.
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No, I have the player's handbook. Bard was normally only open to humans because it was a dual classing nightmare to earn the right to play one. I made an argument supported by fantasy literature that demi-humans can be bards too. He put the restriction that I would have to dual class into the bard as was outlined. He felt that was only fair to the players who had made human bards. Multiclass combo leading to bard would more accurately be Fighter/Thief until you reached a point that the multiclass combo was between 7/7 and 8/9, then restarting at 0 experience under druidic training this time as a Bard.
Yikes I must have been half asleep last night total experience value on the Pathfinder version is 1,337,487.
Looks like you 1st ed Bard used some 2nd ed proficiencies.
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We did that a lot back in the old times. First, and second edition had some compatibilities. Many gamemasters used what they liked of both editions back then in homebrew especially. The gamemasters I played with never ran a monster straight out of the monster manual, and many allowed race class combos that could not exist strictly by the rules. We all followed "The rules are a guideline." They were never etched in stone for us. Having fun with our imaginations, and telling the story was what we found exciting.
In RAW 1e, a half-elf could be a bard, though it wasn't explained exactly how. The usual assumption was that one would multiclass F/T and then change to bard. So that's how I would have done this elf.
I had a 14th level bard. He was, to say the least, OP. Ironically, the bard class would have been fairly well balanced if it had been treated just like any other class. The only change needed would be to add 1 hit die (1st level bards got nothing). As it was, it was absolutely bonkers, not least because the xp system meant that once you'd got to be a bard at all, you'd tear through the first 10 levels in a couple of days. The same effect happened for the first few rogue levels.
A 1e 8F/9TA/15B halfway through the levels has 1240k xp, which corresponds to a 13C, 13D, 12F, 11P, 12R, 13MU, 14I, 15T, 14A, 13Mk, 13Cav, 10Brb, 14TA. That's about 13th on average, so that's how I'd convert her to PF. As for class, just go straight bard, with some archetype that suits your preferences.
You might wanna try ranger instead of fighter/rogue.
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The pathfinder bard spell list is completely different then the Druid list the 1st edition bard used. Your spells will have very limited healing and non of the nature spells. You will have some very limited sonics spells, and a lot of enchantments and buffs.
If you want the same combination of healing spells, performance, combat and natural spells, I would recommend an evangelist cleric of gozreh. You can use your domain for plant or animal domain to give some of the Druidic feel, you still will have performance, and will have a closer feel to the first edition bard than a pathfinder bard.
We did that a lot back in the old times. First, and second edition had some compatibilities.
I drew from both editions indiscriminately.
Have you considered singleclassing the Arcane Duelist bard archetype? At that level you would be able to use Heavy Armor and still cast your spells. Arcane Strike would provide +3 to damage with both weapons (and longbow to boot).
Those magic instruments were converted to 3.5 in the Magic of Faerûn book, IIRC. There's also a 3.5 prestige class somewhere that emulates the 1e bard: the Fochlucan Lyrist.
I know this is sort of off-topic and I really do apologize, but it has been driving me totally bonkers ever since this thread started. You don't let old dogs "lay". You let them "lie".
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I never played 1E, but if you could, instead, list the things you would like to be able to do, then some of us who are not familiar with the edition, could help you.
Otherwise, you may end up with a thread of former 1E players reminiscing, and not really getting your concept converted.
OK here goes:
I like to dual wield, not really worried about the optimized damage ratio. I enjoy imagining the visual aspect of it. I also like using offhand for dedicated parry. My group with this bard allows half of strength modifier + enhancement value to add to armor class against a single attack from a specified opponent, or enhancement value to add to armor class for the round you declared parry with offhand.
I like the old druid spells, but I also like the Pathfinder spell list for bards as well. I can go either way on that.
I like most of the song types that come with basic bard class from Core Rule Book. I like aspects of most of the bard archtypes, but almost everyone of the archtypes replaces something I also wanted to keep. I guess archtypes are give, and take.
I would like her to be a mobility fighter of at least decent value, not a frontliner though, support melee. I like the fluff of "dancing around through the combat."
A back-up healer, and buffer. Being able to cure disease, neutralize poison, and throw a moderate amount of heals.
I do not necessarily need the ability to charm, suggesting an npc takes a certain course of action, and letting him think it was his idea is cool. Thus bluffing, or persuading an individual is valid.
I would like to fascinate, mesmerize an audience. That was always a nice way to control hostilities, and maybe even bring a peaceful resolution in a few cases where negotiation was still possible.
Adaptive modes of transportation.Quickened running speed,
Almost every bard I have played has either had some weather control type spells, like cloudburst, call lightning, control winds, etc... or had sonic AoE crowd controlling spells.
Our gamemaster likes to separate us at times, and run us solo through a short jaunt before we are able to rejoin one another again, thus being able to handle myself solo against an encounter of a cr rating two levels above her own is almost necessary.
@ Micheal Gentry, my sincerest apologies, I did not intend to offend you. I just did not want my old dogs telling fibs either. =)
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@ LazarX Well I did post a conversion, earlier in this thread after I got some feedback. Fighter (Mobile Fighter Archtype) 5/Rogue 2/Bard 10. Further feedback on that was to drop dual wield for two handed fighting, to go ranger/rogue, or make an evangelist cleric of gozreh.
(I am thinking dual wield is not thought of very highly in Pathfinder.)
Maybe I will just go with what I converted unless someone has a very good reason why I shouldn't?
Have you checked the Dervish Dancer archetype?
It has a battle dance as its main ability, a speed bonus that caps at +30 ft. (double your normal speed) and an amazing 12th level ability that lets you move and full attack! Take the Arcane Strike feat alongside it to add precious damage to your two weapon attacks and you should be golden.
I'm really not familiar with what bard brought in 1st ed, but it was considerably different than it is now?
Also, your GM seems to be quite an OK guy and not afraid of homebrew content or houseruling. Perhaps ask him if he would let you have a feat somewhat along the lines of:
Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
You have trained extensively wielding one-handed weapons in each hand until your movements seem effortless to others.
Prerequisites: Str 13 and Dex 15.
Benefit: If you wield an one-handed weapon in each hand, your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalties for both your primary hand and off hand lessen by 2.