Goblin Squad Member
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I'd really like you to clarify this statement:
Not being a member of a PC Settlement means that there's no good reason for anyone to treat you as anything but hostile if you visit their territory. It would be foolish to have an open door policy for NPC Settlement members, so I expect most PC Settlements will NBSI them. I don't know when or if we'll have systems granular enough to let a Settlement set an individual character to NRDS but even after we do, I suspect you'll have problems negotiating one on one with very many locations. The map, for you, will be a small circle of green safe territory around your NPC Settlement, surrounded by an ocean of red where you'll risk being ganked if you venture forth, without allies, and without any means of meaningful self defense.
First question. When you say "I expect most PC Settlements will NBSI them." What do you mean by NBSI?
- Will that remove the reputation and/or alignment penalties from killing them?- Is it related to the trespass mechanic?
- Will the NPC guards automatically attack them if they aren't disguised?
- Will there be any costs associated with it?
Second question. When someone crosses into a hex you control that is either trespassing or part of a group you have NBSIed will it hurt your corruption rating or will they have to actually do something once inside to accomplish that? If they are the victim or a crime (for instance if they get SADed) will it hurt your corruption? If so how much?
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CEO, Goblinworks
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By "NBSI" I mean "Not Blue, Shoot It". Many (most?) Settlements will adopt a security policy that assumes any unknown character that appears in territory they consider "theirs" will be considered hostile until proven otherwise.
I assume most Settlements will have some characters who are ready, willing and able to kill characters that enter territory they consider "theirs". It may be that this happens so infrequently that there's no meaningful impact on those characters in terms of alignment or reputation - or at least no impact that can't be remedied in a way acceptable to the player.
Or it may require the Settlement to have a small cadre of unaffiliated characters on standby to do the dirty deeds when required. These might be characters of players unaffiliated with the Settlement who serve as a fast-reaction force that the Settlement can call on when necessary in exchange for some in-game benefit like mercenaries, or they might be alt characters of Settlement members that are kept idle to be switched to when needed.
I don't know yet if we'll have some kind of granular territorial security policies so that Settlements can effectuate a NBSI or NRDS regime outside the Rep system and even if we do they probably won't be something that is implemented for quite some time even after PC Settlements are introduced. It's impossible to say for certain - such things will be subjected to intense Crowdforging.
This is clearly an area where the simple mechanic of the Reputation system is misaligned with meaningful player interaction. It's pretty damn meaningful to a Settlement to ensure it's security, but it's very hard mechanically to discriminate between someone who gets whacked for trespassing and someone who gets whacked for the lulz.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is clearly an area where the simple mechanic of the Reputation system is misaligned with meaningful player interaction. It's pretty damn meaningful to a Settlement to ensure it's security, but it's very hard mechanically to discriminate between someone who gets whacked for trespassing and someone who gets whacked for the lulz.
Which is why it is requested that there be a simple way to add people or organizations to a list of trespassers. That way the game knows exactly who we consider trespassers. This list would be in the control of settlement leadership and their duly appointed representatives.
I assume most Settlements will have some characters who are ready, willing and able to kill characters that enter territory they consider "theirs". It may be that this happens so infrequently that there's no meaningful impact on those characters in terms of alignment or reputation - or at least no impact that can't be remedied in a way acceptable to the player.
Or it may require the Settlement to have a small cadre of unaffiliated characters on standby to do the dirty deeds when required. These might be characters of players unaffiliated with the Settlement who serve as a fast-reaction force that the Settlement can call on when necessary in exchange for some in-game benefit like mercenaries, or they might be alt characters of Settlement members that are kept idle to be switched to when needed.
Please take note of the bolded parts and next time I suggest that we would
a) control hexes we consider ours that are not mechanically ours but which we have the man power to enforce our controland
b) we would do this using SADs or unaffiliated alts do this
think twice before trying to label the plan as an exploit. One for my little box of quotes I feel.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow Settlements to officially declare themselves NBSI and automatically flag anyone that's not on their whitelist as a Trespasser, thus removing any Alignment or Reputation hits for killing them inside their territory. Obviously, there should be a clear warning to any Characters who wander in that gives them enough time to get back out before they're flagged.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is clearly an area where the simple mechanic of the Reputation system is misaligned with meaningful player interaction. It's pretty damn meaningful to a Settlement to ensure it's security, but it's very hard mechanically to discriminate between someone who gets whacked for trespassing and someone who gets whacked for the lulz.
Wouldn't this be really easy to determine in hexes controlled by structures such as settlements and POI's? Basically if the organization controlling the hex doesn't want you there for some reason you're getting flagged for trespassing.
All you have to do to make that is a reality is make it so that the controlling faction can set which type of groups (Friendly / Neutral / Hostile) are allowed in and out of their territory and put a 15 minute timer down before relational changes or changes to those policies take effect.
At that point everyone being killed is obviously being killed for trespassing. I mean they could just run a NBSI policy and randomly enforce it for the lulz but if there are meaningful reasons to encourage high traffic flow in your hex that would be a bad policy that would scare off a lot of people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have a concern about a player entering the territory of a Settlement they haven't visited before. Yet they are going there for peaceful reasons. To scout out the Settlement to see if it would be good for trading and such.
Yet if they are NBSI, there might be a good chance that player will be chased out before he could even state is peaceful reasons for being there.
I understand Settlement vs Settlement is a key feature of PFO, but so will economics. NBSI is bad for economics it seems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have a concern about a player entering the territory of a Settlement they haven't visited before. Yet they are going there for peaceful reasons. To scout out the Settlement to see if it would be good for trading and such.
Yet if they are NBSI, there might be a good chance that player will be chased out before he could even state is peaceful reasons for being there.
I understand Settlement vs Settlement is a key feature of PFO, but so will economics. NBSI is bad for economics it seems.
I think the increased economic traffic is what people hope for in NRDS. That and just possibly a more friendly community overall.
Probably a silly pipe dream of mine, but oh well. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope that one of the features for settlements is the ability to be NRDS but have it so that if someone farms on resource nodes on your territory they get flagged.
I dont mind NRDS as for the most part the way settlement warfare will play out sudden lightening attacks wont work, since there are several stages (that can last a couple of days total) that need to be worked through before the final battle can be fought. So if i can just flag who is mining at my nodes thats fine.
as to the auto trespassing mechanic I dont mind it, however there needs to be 1) ample warning for someone when they enter it so they can leave and 2)the flag ends the second the person leaves the controlled area. If i escape your hex and you still kill me, then you should suffer the rep/alignment hits.
However I think that auto trespassing should only happen on the settlement hex, not any other hex or the PoI hexes.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@Andius such a system for a Settlement hex makes a lot of sense. It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
There are some problems with even the simple system you suggest. When should the warning appear to a trespasser? If it happens in the hex with the NBSI policy it's probably too late - security is not being really enforced at that point, and bouncing across the hex border becomes a tactic. If notification is made in the surrounding hexes it might be hard to figure out where the line is between "wilderness" and "you die now" - hexes have six neighbors, after all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Andius such a system for a Settlement hex makes a lot of sense. It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
There are some problems with even the simple system you suggest. When should the warning appear to a trespasser? If it happens in the hex with the NBSI policy it's probably too late - security is not being really enforced at that point, and bouncing across the hex border becomes a tactic. If notification is made in the surrounding hexes it might be hard to figure out where the line is between "wilderness" and "you die now" - hexes have six neighbors, after all.
I think that it should happen at the border "the hex you are entering is NBSI. You are now flagged, leave this hex to remove the flag". As to bouncing across hex borders, I think thats fine, thats a risk the player takes. Do i take a short cut and chance getting caught, OR do i go the long way around.
The one thing i DONT want to see is notification to the settlement/organization that someone is trespassing, sure flag me the second i enter your area, thats fine, but make it up to the players to do the patrols to catch people trespassing, if they dont feel like doing patrols thats a choice they make that makes their policy weaker.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Andius such a system for a Settlement hex makes a lot of sense. It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
There are some problems with even the simple system you suggest. When should the warning appear to a trespasser? If it happens in the hex with the NBSI policy it's probably too late - security is not being really enforced at that point, and bouncing across the hex border becomes a tactic. If notification is made in the surrounding hexes it might be hard to figure out where the line is between "wilderness" and "you die now" - hexes have six neighbors, after all.
Did you ever try Darkfall Unholy Wars? The whole map is segregated into different security zones. You can turn on an overlay for your map that shows different areas of the map tinted in different colors based on the security zone.
If you go from a safezone to a lower security zone it says "You are now passing into an unprotected area. You will be flagged in 30 seconds."
What if every hex that has you set to NBSI can be tinted red on the map and you get a similar warning / grace period if you step over the border.
It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
How accurate is that?
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The one thing i DONT want to see is notification to the settlement/organization that someone is trespassing, sure flag me the second i enter your area, thats fine, but make it up to the players to do the patrols to catch people trespassing, if they dont feel like doing patrols thats a choice they make that makes their policy weaker.
Totally agree with this thought. Want to be NBSI then do the legwork
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@Andius such a system for a Settlement hex makes a lot of sense. It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
Is there no way for a character to have something on an arbitrary hex that is worth having a security policy regarding?
If they have stuff that they are intended to 'proactively defend', it seems likely that they should just be put into a state where they can attack anybody and anybody can attack them without offending the gods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Andius such a system for a Settlement hex makes a lot of sense. It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.
There are some problems with even the simple system you suggest. When should the warning appear to a trespasser? If it happens in the hex with the NBSI policy it's probably too late - security is not being really enforced at that point, and bouncing across the hex border becomes a tactic. If notification is made in the surrounding hexes it might be hard to figure out where the line is between "wilderness" and "you die now" - hexes have six neighbors, after all.
Did you ever try Darkfall Unholy Wars? The whole map is segregated into different security zones. You can turn on an overlay for your map that shows different areas of the map tinted in different colors based on the security zone.
If you go from a safezone to a lower security zone it says "You are now passing into an unprotected area. You will be flagged in 30 seconds."
What if every hex that has you set to NBSI can be tinted red on the map and you get a similar warning / grace period if you step over the border.
It gets less obviously sensible when you talk about surrounding hexes. It becomes very nonsensical when you talk about an arbitrary hex.How accurate is that?
Its real easy when everything is set. In darkfall... Everything was set. When you hit a specific spot you are flagged.
What you want to do is make it ever changing based on what you want, and ever changing based on control of each hex. You are talking about a crap ton more code then Darkfall considers dealing with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One question (which may have already been answered elsewhere, apologies in advance) is: are there any visual cues to know that you are in a specified "hex"?
Personally, I don't think that there should be as it would look a bit weird. If there is no visual indication on which hex you are in and where the "border" is, how is one supposed to "remove" themselves from a settlement or contested hex? It would be a little arbitrary I would think.
I don't mind someone claiming a hex and asking me to leave if I am wandering around, but how do they know where their "territory" begins and ends? (They don't have to "know" per se, but it would help with the "Please leave the territory of the Immortal Flies, take 2 steps backwards and never return.") This could actually open up some great in-game claims and counter-claims for contested territory -- unless the mechanics of the game can solve it. That would then become a good problem to have. People will identify their territory in-game and take some ownership over it. "From the edge of the woods to the Castle Gate, we the Innocuous Flies RULE!" Then the Immortal Flies can come in and challenge if they wanted, because there will be no surveyors... or will there?
A complementary point (this has probably been suggested before), why not make the settlement NBSI and outposts in the hexes around the settlement NRDS giving the "core" settlement a higher level of in-game security-with-lethal-consequence with outposts more "open" to visitors and external interactions? The outposts could be patrolled by the contracted companies with support from the core settlement where required and most forces protecting your happy home. Just a thought.
Finally, I have no problem with poking trespassers and undesirables full of holes if there is a reason and I will most likely leave an area if someone else can show prior claim or they look like a werebear, but unless someone tells me where their hex is and how I can get out of it, there is likely to be a spate of killings over misunderstandings (which I don't mind initially) until someone can show or at least approximate where their hexes begin and end. I do remember some blog posts and forum posts that indicate if you take a particular action in a controlled area you will get flagged or notified (something along those lines) but that is likely to be too late if you are unaware of the controlling interest who is sending out a pack of hunters to slaughter the intruder. This is actually somewhat meaningful PVP however...
As always, I may have missed an important post buried in the archives so this information is only as accurate as my short-term memory. Feel free to enlighten me.
Disclaimer: i'm a noob and my musings are all opinion and commentary. No facts have been hurt in the making of this post.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Though this is only based on my past game experience, and not on any definite developer's statements:
Showing the borders of hexes and controlled areas is easy to do on a minimap and larger UI map, so I'd expect that instead of some in-world indication of borders. I'd hope that the UI would leave no doubt as to the local laws in whatever hex you're in; being flagged as attackable because you can't view local laws seems counter to what Ryan has said before about similar "accidental flagging".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or it may require the Settlement to have a small cadre of unaffiliated characters on standby to do the dirty deeds when required. These might be characters of players unaffiliated with the Settlement who serve as a fast-reaction force that the Settlement can call on when necessary in exchange for some in-game benefit like mercenaries, or they might be alt characters of Settlement members that are kept idle to be switched to when needed.
Ryan, my impression from the MMORPG.com interview was that all characters would have to join a settlement. Did you mean that each player will have to pick an initial settlement at character creation, or simply that it will be incredibly important to playability to join a settlement? If the former, how does your statement above apply? If the latter, would not all newly created characters be vulnerable to a NBSI policy?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or it may require the Settlement to have a small cadre of unaffiliated characters on standby to do the dirty deeds when required. These might be characters of players unaffiliated with the Settlement who serve as a fast-reaction force that the Settlement can call on when necessary in exchange for some in-game benefit like mercenaries, or they might be alt characters of Settlement members that are kept idle to be switched to when needed.Ryan, my impression from the MMORPG.com interview was that all characters would have to join a settlement. Did you mean that each player will have to pick an initial settlement at character creation, or simply that it will be incredibly important to playability to join a settlement? If the former, how does your statement above apply? If the latter, would not all newly created characters be vulnerable to a NBSI policy?
Each player will have to be a part of an NPC settlement if they are not in a PC settlement.
Every character is vulnerable to NBSI unless it is set to positive standings with whoever.
Not Blue Shoot It. Blue is positive standings. Its an Eve term, when you set someone blue they are an ally and you do not shoot at them. If someone is not set blue you shoot them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can do recruitment through forums or in game and probably join a sponsored company of that settlement before you enter the area.
Can we be a member of a player settlement directly without being in a company it sponsors?
Anyway GW almost certainly wouldn't make yo run a gauntlet to get to a setlements doors without dying to join it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I assume most Settlements will have some characters who are ready, willing and able to kill characters that enter territory they consider "theirs". It may be that this happens so infrequently that there's no meaningful impact on those characters in terms of alignment or reputation - or at least no impact that can't be remedied in a way acceptable to the player.
Or it may require the Settlement to have a small cadre of unaffiliated characters on standby to do the dirty deeds when required. These might be characters of players unaffiliated with the Settlement who serve as a fast-reaction force that the Settlement can call on when necessary in exchange for some in-game benefit like mercenaries, or they might be alt characters of Settlement members that are kept idle to be switched to when needed.
Most settlements will have a cadre of "Monsters in the Basement" or CE Low Rep alts ready and willing to do whatever dirty deeds are needed to be done.
I have been saying this for seemingly months. These are not griefer squads, their purpose is meaningful for settlements to have that option while still shielding themselves from the downsides of employing too many CE Low Rep.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Ryan,
If a character is flagged as a trespasser within a settlement hex, how much freedom of action does that give to the trespasser?
Do they automatically see any settlement citizen as hostile?
The Trespasser obviously has the right to defend themselves without consequence, but do they have to wait until attacked first?
Can someone not affiliated with the settlement see a trespasser flag, and then attack freely as well?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Each player will have to be a part of an NPC settlement if they are not in a PC settlement.
Every character is vulnerable to NBSI unless it is set to positive standings with whoever.
Not Blue Shoot It. Blue is positive standings. Its an Eve term, when you set someone blue they are an ally and you do not shoot at them. If someone is not set blue you shoot them.
Wait... what does it mean to be vulnerable to a policy? The policy shouldn't have any direct mechanical effects (although several closely related decisions might have e.g. the effect of marking a character as trespassing), and of course an individual can always violate policy or make an exception.
I think that what everyone is vulnerable to isn't settlement policy, but PvP. That vulnerability exists regardless of settlement policy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Its real easy when everything is set. In darkfall... Everything was set. When you hit a specific spot you are flagged.
What you want to do is make it ever changing based on what you want, and ever changing based on control of each hex. You are talking about a crap ton more code then Darkfall considers dealing with.
The areas are set. The hex borders never change. They just change ownership and policies. Really shouldn't be that difficult to code. If Exiled = True tiny that level of the overlay red and issue the warning / flag. If Exiled = False then don't do that.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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We simplified Trespasser down into Criminal (at the same time we simplified Thief and Traitor/Betrayer). So keep in mind when you're asking about Trespasser, you're currently asking about "functionality that can get you marked as a Criminal for forbidden access to a settlement's territory." Right now, the way that can happen is having too low a Rep for the settlement's threshold (and it's still TBD exactly where the boundary for that is). We're keeping up with further suggestions for ways that might happen in this thread, but aren't committing to anything yet ;) .
But the answer is that getting flagged for trespassing will almost certainly work like Criminal normally works (and the same as most other PvP flags). That is, while you've got it, you have a non-reciprocal hostile state to pretty much everyone: they'll see you as hostile, you'll see them as neutral (unless they have some other reason that you'd see them as hostile without the flag, like they're in an enemy faction or have a flag themselves). Like all of those, once someone actually attacks you, they become hostile to you as well so you can defend yourself.
Non-settlement members will still see the flag and be able to attack you (except probably members of your settlement and certain other classes of allies, who will still see you as an ally).
Obviously this might need more nuance once we start implementing it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Don't celebrate too much Bludd. This system is actually in my favor to a degree that is somewhat broken. Let's first review a few facts:
1. The best settlements will auto-flag low rep characters as trespassers(criminals):
Settlements can set a minimum reputation to enter the city; players who don't meet the requirement are warned, and become trespassers if they continue to enter. Settlements may also be selective about permitting players with low reputations to join, since maintaining a high minimum settlement reputation is key to building several prestigious and useful structures.
2. Settlements that accept low rep characters lose out on top tier training so low rep characters cannot become as powerful as high rep ones can.
3. Stephen just announced criminals will be flagged to everyone.
What does that mean? You either take the penalty for not trespassing your low rep enforcers, or I can dispense vigilante justice against them in your own territory free of charge on high rep / full powered characters.
What's more you have to spend influence to feud me if you don't like me dispensing vigilante justice within your borders. I spend... nothing.
I have more rights in YOUR territory than your unaffilated low rep NBSI enforcers. You can bet I'm going to take full advantage of that in hostile settlements if it isn't fixed.
The exile mechanic or the vigilante flag would fix it of course.
PS. Remember how lawful settlements (and likely neutral as well) are required to set a certain amount of laws? Friendly wager SADs and Outpost raids will be some of the most common ones outlawed if it doesn't outright force all non-chaotic settlements to do so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Don't celebrate too much Bludd. This system is actually in my favor to a degree that is somewhat broken. Let's first review a few facts:
1. The best settlements will auto-flag low rep characters as trespassers(criminals):
Settlements can set a minimum reputation to enter the city; players who don't meet the requirement are warned, and become trespassers if they continue to enter. Settlements may also be selective about permitting players with low reputations to join, since maintaining a high minimum settlement reputation is key to building several prestigious and useful structures.2. Settlements that accept low rep characters lose out on top tier training so low rep characters cannot become as powerful as high rep ones can.
3. Stephen just announced criminals will be flagged to everyone.
What does that mean? You either take the penalty for not trespassing your low rep enforcers, or I can dispense vigilante justice against them in your own territory free of charge on high rep / full powered characters.
What's more you have to spend influence to feud me if you don't like me dispensing vigilante justice within your borders. I spend... nothing.
I have more rights in YOUR territory than your unaffilated low rep NBSI enforcers. You can bet I'm going to take full advantage of that in hostile settlements if it isn't fixed.
The exile mechanic or the vigilante flag would fix it of course.
PS. Remember how lawful settlements (and likely neutral as well) are required to set a certain amount of laws? Friendly wager SADs and Outpost raids will be some of the most common ones outlawed if it doesn't outright force all non-chaotic settlements to do so.
My post was not celebratory, it was asking for clarification or reiteration. If I had written, 'You mad Bro'" that would have been celebratory.
As to the rest, Criminal Flag for outpost raids and everyone being able to attack a criminal. Been there, done that. I wrote recently, I flew around with a criminal flag almost constantly for 6 - 8 months and was only engaged 3 times.
My experience, Non PVPers don't suddenly PVP just because they can. Even without consequences of alignment / reputation, there is always one consequence that is always there.... the possibility of death.
"Friendly Wager SADs" - This has not been confirmed nor denied as a criminal action.
SADs can also be used by settlements as a legitimate means to control traffic through their hex and or to collect tolls.
* A SAD does not have to be associated solely with banditry
* A SAD does not have to demand money or inventory, it could be purely inspection (search for contraband, ie slaves)
* A rejected SAD does not have to result in violence
Busted Myths......
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Goblin Squad Member
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If my reading is correct, unless you are low rep (tbd what that level will be) or you commit a criminal act, you will not be flagged?
In other words, you can not be placed on a "Red List" that auto flags you as a criminal / trespasser?
These do seem to be the only things set in stone as flagging you in someone else's territory at the moment. Probably why he added the bit about extra nuance at the end.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One question (which may have already been answered elsewhere, apologies in advance) is: are there any visual cues to know that you are in a specified "hex"?
Personally, I don't think that there should be as it would look a bit weird. If there is no visual indication on which hex you are in and where the "border" is, how is one supposed to "remove" themselves from a settlement or contested hex? It would be a little arbitrary I would think.
Most games have the name of the current zone showing under the mini-map. It seems like that would be a good place to put this kind of information. It also seems like it would be reasonable to have a buffer zone on the inside border of a hex where the warning was issues, perhaps as simply as a flashing name under the mini-map.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The areas are set. The hex borders never change. They just change ownership and policies. Really shouldn't be that difficult to code. If Exiled = True tiny that level of the overlay red and issue the warning / flag. If Exiled = False then don't do that.Its real easy when everything is set. In darkfall... Everything was set. When you hit a specific spot you are flagged.
What you want to do is make it ever changing based on what you want, and ever changing based on control of each hex. You are talking about a crap ton more code then Darkfall considers dealing with.
I dont know if you have ever written any kind of code before... but its not that simple.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We're keeping up with further suggestions for ways that might happen in this thread, but aren't committing to anything yet ;) .
In other words, you can not be placed on a "Red List" that auto flags you as a criminal / trespasser?
So, the devs not committing to implementing a Red List is equivalent to the devs committing to not implementing a Red List?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont know if you have ever written any kind of code before... but its not that simple.
Of course coding isn't simple, but being able to set and change specific laws in specific areas shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, as far as I know. Much more complicated feats of coding have been done. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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But the answer is that getting flagged for trespassing will almost certainly work like Criminal normally works (and the same as most other PvP flags). That is, while you've got it, you have a non-reciprocal hostile state to pretty much everyone...
I hope y'all are still thinking about something like the old Enforcer Flag, that allowed authorized individuals to explicitly declare a Character as a Trespasser, perhaps even from Watch Towers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But the answer is that getting flagged for trespassing will almost certainly work like Criminal normally works (and the same as most other PvP flags). That is, while you've got it, you have a non-reciprocal hostile state to pretty much everyone...I hope y'all are still thinking about something like the old Enforcer Flag, that allowed authorized individuals to explicitly declare a Character as a Trespasser, perhaps even from Watch Towers.
Im sure its on the "List" of things to do, right next to SAD.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont know if you have ever written any kind of code before... but its not that simple.Of course coding isn't simple, but being able to set and change specific laws in specific areas shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, as far as I know. Much more complicated feats of coding have been done. :P
Of course its been done. Ryan said that it is too complicated for what they are focused on right now. It may come in the future. But Andius is acting like its a piece of cake since Darkfall did it. What darkfall did was a piece of cake. It was a simple universal setting. What he wants has at minimum 2 other states that follows up with a 3rd state based on every character in the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would not read too much about the ultimate goals of settlement red/blue policies into Stephen's post at this time. Settlements are still a long way out. What I am reading from the post is that part of the Minimum Viable Feature Set for settlement control will involve Reputation thresholds. A larger list and ability to set blue/gray/red is a more complex feature that needs to be hashed out and thought about more deeply at some future time. I believe Ryan said that future time could even be years depending on crowdforging priorities.
In short, they want to do it but it is pretty early to focus on it too much right now in the face of everything else that needs doing. But they are keeping an eye out here to make note of any interesting ideas to consider when that time does eventually come.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@stephen
For me.
1) Allow the settlement to set the rep threshold, HOWEVER said threshold MUST affect everyone, including members of the settlement. That means that members of the settlement are vulnerable unless they maintain the appropriate rep. I think that this should be an incentive to have players of a settlement maintain a rep that is consistent with the organization they belong to.
2) Allow the trespassing criminal flag to auto flag people within your territory. This would require lists and function to individually flag (in order of importance) Character, Company, settlement as well as blanket flagging for anyone not on the list as blue, gets flagged or flag only people on the red list. So if a character is individually flagged as blue, but their company is red, that person would still be blue and so on. This would allow settlements to tailor their flagging to allow trusted people in and keep others out.
I think it is important to give settlements control over who gets that trespassing criminal flag and who doesnt.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@leperkhaun, I agree, that system would be good.
For the record, though, I think a simple Reputation-based system (as already described) will be sufficient for The Seventh Veil's purposes.
I would also hope to keep Brighthaven operating on the same Reputation-based threshold. When other tools are available, they will likely be used, but it is my hope to see my chosen home use them sparingly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would also hope to keep Brighthaven operating on the same Reputation-based threshold. When other tools are available, they will likely be used, but it is my hope to see my chosen home use them sparingly.@leperkhaun, I agree, that system would be good.
For the record, though, I think a simple Reputation-based system (as already described) will be sufficient for The Seventh Veil's purposes.
I almost said I expected TEO to be comfortable with the same policy, but decided it would be better to let you speak for yourself. It's always nice when my intuition is affirmed, though :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of course its been done. Ryan said that it is too complicated for what they are focused on right now. It may come in the future. But Andius is acting like its a piece of cake since Darkfall did it. What darkfall did was a piece of cake. It was a simple universal setting. What he wants has at minimum 2 other states that follows up with a 3rd state based on every character in the game.I dont know if you have ever written any kind of code before... but its not that simple.Of course coding isn't simple, but being able to set and change specific laws in specific areas shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility, as far as I know. Much more complicated feats of coding have been done. :P
That I can agree with. Laws for settlement I would expect to evolve over time, starting with a very basic, crude set of parameters and adding to or expanding the options whenever it's decided that it's a good time to focus on laws.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We're keeping up with further suggestions for ways that might happen in this thread, but aren't committing to anything yet ;) .In other words, you can not be placed on a "Red List" that auto flags you as a criminal / trespasser?So, the devs not committing to implementing a Red List is equivalent to the devs committing to not implementing a Red List?
It was a question not a statement, which is why I punctuated it with a ? mark
@ Stephen Cheney
For clarification, can any individual, company or settlement set someone to "Red" thus auto flagging that person, company or settlement to Criminal / Trespasser status?
This auto flagging is not the result of low reputation (whatever GW will decide that is) or any action that would have made the person, etc, ect a consequence free target.