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I've searched and read through a number of threads here on spellstrike -even one that mentioned 2-Handed weapons- but I'm still not clear if this is doable. I have a Weapon Finessing Elven Magus that wants to use the Elven Curve Blade with his spellstrike (su). I'm well aware that this weapon wouldn't be possible to use with Spell Combat, so I'm not looking for feedback on that.
It's clear from the descriptive text for Spellstrike that the melee attack is a free action similar to the way the delivery of a melee touch spell is. From my understanding of it, it's possible for a Magus to cast their touch spell, move and then deliver their melee weapon attack all in 1 round. Many of the touch spells my Magus will be using have a somatic component, so my Magus will need to have 1 hand free. I've read that the act of grasping a weapon with 2 hands is a free action, but I'm not sure about the rules around temporarily holding a 2-handed weapon with only 1 hand. So....what my question is:
Can a Magus with a 2-handed Elven Curve Blade initially have 1 hand off their weapon to cast their touch spell, then grasp the weapon 2-handed, move and make their melee attack all in the same round?
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The Elven Curve Blade or any two handed weapon is never a good weapon for a Magus. (leaving the freak shows out and assuming a normal two armed biped for our purposes) To give up spell combat, means you might as well chop your arms off.
That's debatable. My wife stopped using Spell Combat just for simplicity's sake, and hasn't really missed it. Of course, she focuses on frostbite rather than shocking grasp, so maybe that makes a difference.
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The Elven Curve Blade or any two handed weapon is never a good weapon for a Magus. (leaving the freak shows out and assuming a normal two armed biped for our purposes) To give up spell combat, means you might as well chop your arms off.
Yup, well aware of that and that's why I'm also planning on carrying a Rapier. ;) That said, having just taken a TWF Ranger to 5th level, I'm not completely sold on TWF with it's -2 penalty to the primary hand. I realize some touch spells will help with the primary hand attack penalty, but I'm also not trhilled with the idea of having to position myself within 10' of my target to safely cast and then 5' step to make the Spell Combat attack.
I have a Magus with an Elven Curve Blade as well, and in my Rise of the Runelords campaign, there is a dwarven Magus with a Dwarven Waraxe who gave me the idea in the first place. (Gods help the poor bastard he crits with that thing.)
With my Elf Magus, I haven't missed spell combat yet either.
But to the OP, you can definitely Spellstrike with a two-handed weapon.
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
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I have a Magus with an Elven Curve Blade as well, and in my Rise of the Runelords campaign, there is a dwarven Magus with a Dwarven Waraxe who gave me the idea in the first place. (Gods help the poor bastard he crits with that thing.)
Not to mention that the Elven Curve Blade does as much standard damage as that Dwarven Waraxe, but has a 18-20 crit range. ;)
I forgot to mention earlier, but many thanks to all those who answered this.
Not to mention that the Elven Curve Blade does as much standard damage as that Dwarven Waraxe, but has a 18-20 crit range. ;)
True, but the dwarf puts out 1d10+4 (1d10+5 when two handing) with each strike. Not counting when he arcane pools or power attack. And when he does crit... the x3 multiplier will pretty much one-hit-quit whatever he tags. (And he likes to put keen on his axe too in general, and I think just took the lingering blade arcana (or the one that lest your arcane pool last for a minute/level)
For my magus, yes, I crit more often, but I'm doing 1d10+1 damage (one handed or not). I'm a little envious of his damage output. (And hit points, if we are being honest)
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
SKR has said that if a free hand is used to do something in a round, even if grasping a THW is a free action, that hand has been occupied for the round and cannot then be used for something else such as wielding a THW. There's an FAQ on this exact thing. Searce FAQ for magus and you'll find it.
SKR has said that if a free hand is used to do something in a round, even if grasping a THW is a free action, that hand has been occupied for the round and cannot then be used for something else such as wielding a THW. There's an FAQ on this exact thing. Searce FAQ for magus and you'll find it.
That is Spell combat. The issue at hand here is Spellstrike. You can do Spellstrike with a two handed weapon.
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It remains an issue for spellstrike because You need a free hand to cast spells that require a somatic component. And because casting a spell IS a standard action, you need that hand free for the whole action.SKR has said that if a free hand is used to do something in a round, even if grasping a THW is a free action, that hand has been occupied for the round and cannot then be used for something else such as wielding a THW. There's an FAQ on this exact thing. Searce FAQ for magus and you'll find it.That is Spell combat. The issue at hand here is Spellstrike. You can do Spellstrike with a two handed weapon.
I read through all the FAQs and found nothing in regards to what Shimesen mentioned. As well, this excerpt from one of the Ultimate Magic FAQ questions, leads me to believe that two-handing is allowable:
Magus: Can a magus use spellstrike (page 10) to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?...
...On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell...
Based on what you're saying even two-handing a one-handed weapon while using Spellstrike wouldn't be allowable. Spellstrike makes it very clear that the melee attack is a free action and the spell is delivered through the weapon. It might just be me, but what you're both claiming doesn't sound like RAW or RAI. Shimesen, if you have a link to anything SKR said about this, I'd very much appreciate it if you could list it.
It remains an issue for spellstrike because You need a free hand to cast spells that require a somatic component. And because casting a spell IS a standard action, you need that hand free for the whole action.SKR has said that if a free hand is used to do something in a round, even if grasping a THW is a free action, that hand has been occupied for the round and cannot then be used for something else such as wielding a THW. There's an FAQ on this exact thing. Searce FAQ for magus and you'll find it.That is Spell combat. The issue at hand here is Spellstrike. You can do Spellstrike with a two handed weapon.
Once the spell is cast the standard action is over, and that hand is free for whatever (generally a free touch attack granted by such spells).
But for example, a magus could cast a touch attack spell.
Move (and because of BAB +1 or more) draw a weapon during the move, with no restrictions on what that weapon is.
Take free melee attack granted by casting a spell.
This isn't really any different than, say, a wizard who casts a spell (any spell really) as their standard while holding something in one hand (the other hand is free for spell casting).
Then as a move action grabbing a scroll or potion or wand from their bags. Now both hands are occupied, but the standard action spell still went off.
What you can't do is during a full attack action attempt to TWF with a two-hander, then release one hand as a free action, free action quickdraw a one handed weapon, make off hand attacks with the extra weapon.
What you can't do is during a full attack action attempt to TWF with a two-hander, then release one hand as a free action, free action quickdraw a one handed weapon, make off hand attacks with the extra weapon.
As per spell combat:
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty.A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Its the same thing...if you cast a spell using spell combat in a round, then to deliver it with a 2h melee attack via spell strike you HAVE to do something else other than cast a spell with the hand you just used to cast said spell.
Even if you take just a standard action to cast the spell, the hand u used to cast has been used that turn and CANNOT grab your 2h weapon to help deliver it. You CAN make the at with one hand (the other hand), but you would suffer the penalties for atking with a 2h weapon with 1 hand...
You CAN spell strike with a 2HW, to do so, you must cast a touch spell in 1 round, hold the charge, then deliver it in the following round while wielding a 2hw.
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Shimesen, I believe it is also legal to let go of the 2h weapon with one hand, cast a touch spell as a standard action (note - not using spell combat), regrip the weapon as a free action, then step forward, and use the free attack generated by casting the touch spell to attack, and utilise Spellstrike to deliver the attack through the weapon.
As your quote above shows, though, you could not use Spell Combat and a two-handed weapon in the same round.
i apologize, i said that SKR said what i was talking about..it was in fact JJ, i'm sorry. i also told you the wrong place to look. but i did find what i was reffering to Here in which JJ is quoted as saying the following:
As for the OP's question... if you're wielding a 2H weapon, you can let go of the weapon with one of your hands (free action). You're now only carrying the 2H weapon, not wielding it, but your free hand is now free to attack or help cast spells or whatever. And at the end of your turn if your free hand remains free you'd be able to return it to grip your 2H weapon so you can still threaten foes and take attacks of opportunity if you want.
emphasis mine. you cannot put your hand back on the weapon after you cast a spell (assuming you were holding it with both hands at the beginning of your turn and removed the hand to cast as a free action) in the same turn you let go of it. you can cast the spell, then wait for the baddy to come at you and discharge it with your AoO though...
Read the whole thread. The debate was on a similar subject as this, and in that very post that I quoted from JJ states that he MAY change his ruling in a game he gmed to allow a player to do what he describes, which suggests that normally, he would not allow it.
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I don't see the Arcane Bonded Weapon example JJ was discussing in that thread the same as Spellstrike. An Arcane Bonded Weapon lets the Wizard cast ONE particular spell from their spellbook, independent of the spell slots they've prepared for the day. Whereas Spellstrike ONLY allows a Magus to use a prepared touch spell and deliver it through a weapon as a free melee attack in place of the standard free melee touch attack. To me those are very different things.
As to the rest of what's discussed in that thread, I already have a 5th level TWF Dwarf that wields a throwing axe in his off-hand, so not much that was discussed was new info to me.
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One VERY important thing about Spell strike some people keep forgetting is -
Spell strike has NOTHING to do with CASTING of spells.
Yeah, that was what I was trying to say in my last post when I was contrasting it to an Arcane Bonded weapon, but I didn't say it well. Spellstrike is really just a supernatural ability that allows the Magus to deliver a touch spell as a free melee attack instead of a free melee touch attack.
What you can't do is during a full attack action attempt to TWF with a two-hander, then release one hand as a free action, free action quickdraw a one handed weapon, make off hand attacks with the extra weapon.
As per spell combat:
...Its the same thing...if you cast a spell using spell combat in a round, then to deliver it with a 2h melee attack via spell strike you HAVE to do something else other than cast a spell with the hand you just used to cast said spell.
Even if you take just a standard action to cast the spell, the hand u used to cast has been used that turn and CANNOT grab your 2h weapon to help deliver it. You CAN make the at with one hand (the other hand), but you would suffer the penalties for atking with a 2h weapon with 1 hand...
I wasn't referring to spell combat, only to spellstriking in the same turn you use your standard action to cast a touch attack spell.
Please cite the FAQ/rules/otherwise that indicates using your standard action to cast a spell ties up that hand for the entirety of the round - cause I'm not aware of any such rule. Note that under such a rule, a character who casts both a spell and a quickened spell would need two free hands in order to cast both of them.
As an alternate example of a similar case about hands being used up (or rather not being used up). A high BAB character with quickdraw could:
Attack with a one handed weapon, drop it, draw a two handed weapon, attack with it, drop it, pull out a throwing knife and throw it, and if that same character happened to also be a spellcaster with quicken spell also toss in a quickened spell with somatic components. This characters hands are not 'tied up' for the entire round because he cast a spell, or used a two handed weapon. (Don't make the mistake of trying to prove this invalid with a TWF scenario, that is a separate beast altogether, as is spell combat).
As already noted:
JJ is not making a ruling (he frequently points out he's not a guy you should be asking about rules questions). He is giving an opinion on bonded objects. Which isn't really applicable to the spellstrike/2H weapon question. All he is really pointing out is that at the time of casting the spell with a somatic component, one hand must be free. Since for a normal wizard casting a spell is basically the end of their turn (short of quickened spells) they could re-grip their weapon. But there isn't actually a rule that you could only re-grip your weapon at the end of your turn. Re-gripping is a free action and free actions can be taken anytime subject of course to GM limitations.
Add to that the actual official FAQ which makes no mention of end-of-turn only to re-grip:
Two-Handed Weapons: What kind of action is it to remove your hand from a two-handed weapon or re-grab it with both hands?Both are free actions. For example, a wizard wielding a quarterstaff can let go of the weapon with one hand as a free action, cast a spell as a standard action, and grasp the weapon again with that hand as a free action; this means the wizard is still able to make attacks of opportunity with the weapon (which requires using two hands).
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If the developers intended that you could not two-hand a spellstrike, they would have explicitly written that limitation just as they did with spell combat.
I'm not really seeing the point of barring two-handing a spellstrike. To me, it just robs character concepts.
The Elven Curve Blade or any two handed weapon is never a good weapon for a Magus. (leaving the freak shows out and assuming a normal two armed biped for our purposes) To give up spell combat, means you might as well chop your arms off.That's debatable. My wife stopped using Spell Combat just for simplicity's sake, and hasn't really missed it. Of course, she focuses on frostbite rather than shocking grasp, so maybe that makes a difference.
My adamantine bardiche-wielding magus has the same experience. Spell combat is a nifty trick, but it also ties a magus to full-round actions if he depends on the ability for his damage output. I'd much rather spellstrike for heavy-hitting (and debuffing) reach attacks with standard actions, and retain my mobility. I have yet to suffer a full attack on my magus, and his hp appreciate it.
