The party consists of:
Level 3 Psion (Élan, Nomad)
Level 3 Cleric (Lawful Evil, worships God of Ecstatic Torture)
Level 3 Druid (Generalised mooncaller druid)
Level 3 Archer Fighter
There will be several recurring enemies, with the BBEG 'discovered" at high level. (Is an NPC the players meet several times)
For flavor and RP drama, the rivals don't know of each other, but that may change if the PCs make it happen.
None of the PCs are super optimised, but their rivals will be. (Mostly just optimized to survive and escape conflicts not just for lethalality. They wont fight to the death.)
There's also a rival adventuring party or two, but only to keep story plots going if the PCs choose not to do things. Its very much a sandbox campaign, but if the npcs decide something is more important than a macguffin, others may do it, which may lead to a drastically different outcome. Anyways, on to the main PC rivals-
Zziti- Female psion (nomad élan)
Rival for: the nomad élan.
Initial Opinion of PC: Ooh, another Élan! A playmate/friend! But why did the council send another Élan to do my job?
Personality/Distinctive Traits: Used to be a catfolk, misses her claws. Very flirtatious. Perhaps she can get 'mindclaws' at some point.
Franca- Male Ranger
Rival for: Mooncaller Druid
Pacifistic and hates to kill. Prefers to use sleep arrows and poisons and such.
Initial Opinion of PC: Unknown. I need help with this one.
Brutus- Lawful Evil inquisitor
Rival For: Cleric (They share the same diety)
Initial Opinion of PC- In love with the PC, but very pious. Seeks to show her pain and torment, occasionally has a change of heart and tries to show her she's too good for the church and should convert or just leave. Very protective of his "favorite victim". Its against the diety's wishes to actually kill another follower, but leaving them dying or put into 'SAW' (like the movies) style situations is encouraged.
I have no clue about the archer fighter. Definately an archer, perhaps a drive to be world-famous for archery, hence the rivalry. Any ideas?
Level 4-5 build advice for these would be great, feat and archtype suggestions are greatly appretiated.
They will all use a 25-pt buy.
If a poster is willing to post 'dibs' and build it for me, it would keep my players from calling it metagamey since I know their skills and such.
Anyone have advice for Rivals?
I can help. Do you have any particular deity in mind for the Inquisitor?
Also, you seem to want to make two archers, one ranger and another fighter. Are you sure about that? You could have a bigger variation.
For the druid, a lunar oracle is a great rival, if you want to keep only one archer to the team.
Also, consider a wilder instead of a psion, just to keep things a little different.
Human Archer Fighter 5
STR 16
DEX 22
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 14
CHA 7
1 Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
2 Deadly Aim
3 Weapon Focus (Longbow)
4 Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
5 Point Blank Master (Longbow)
Max Perception
Favored class bonus to hp.
Traits: Defender of the Society, Bred for War
+1 Composite Longbow +3 (2300)
+2 Belt of Dex (4000)
Cloak of resistance +1 (1000)
+1 Leather Armor (1000)
20 arrows
XMorsX wrote: I can help. Do you have any particular deity in mind for the Inquisitor?
Also, you seem to want to make two archers, one ranger and another fighter. Are you sure about that? You could have a bigger variation.
For the druid, a lunar oracle is a great rival, if you want to keep only one archer to the team.
For an archer that uses substances with arrows, you cannot go wrong with a Grenadier Alchemist. Although for a poiosn based alchemist (lets say he uses Drow poison) Grebadier does not work. Still, Alchemist is the way to go.
Also, consider a wilder instead of a psion, just to keep things a little different.
It might be fun if your archer fighter's rival is a "Robin Hood" type. Maybe an elf or half elf that is drawn more towards out shining the player than anything else. He might attempt to split the character's arrows in twain or some other impressive archery feats. As a GM you could really go to town with this character shooting targets blindfolded or shooting small pieces of fruit thrown in the air.
Cassidius wrote: It might be fun if your archer fighter's rival is a "Robin Hood" type. Maybe an elf or half elf that is drawn more towards out shining the player than anything else. He might attempt to split the character's arrows in twain or some other impressive archery feats. As a GM you could really go to town with this character shooting targets blindfolded or shooting small pieces of fruit thrown in the air. This is similar to what I had in mind with the archer fighter. He has a feature named trick shot that essentially allows him to make a disarm, feint or sunder combat maneuver at range. The bred for war trait gives bonus to the cmd. With these kind of combat maneuvers you can simulate al these tricks pretty nicely.
Rangers are pretty weak. I'll post a ranger to show you how bad they are.
The player is a cleric of zon-kuthon. I think an inquisitor works well as a rival.
I was going to not make the ranger a melee character. TWF perhaps.
Well my goals for the rivals:
1. They are a level or two higher than the PCs. They are equipped as a PC two levels lower would have.
2. They have the same primary stats for their class as the rival PC. If the PC does kill them, there's good unique equipment. (Like belt of strength and wooden mwk armour for the ranger, bonuses to wisdom and stuff for the inquisitor, an efficient quiver of sleep arrows for the ranger,etc.) I want *interesting* equipment instead of optimized eq.
3. Some are aggressive, some are friendly, but they all affect the story and invest the players in the game.
4. I love the robin hood character idea... What's the AC to hit an arrow in midair I wonder...
Two Weapon Ranger
Male human ranger 5
N Medium humanoid
Init +3 (+5 urban); Senses Perception +9 (+11 urban)
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 43 (5d10+15)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 battleaxe +8 (1d8+5/x3) and handaxe +8 (1d6+2/x3)
Ranged Mighty +4 Composite Longbow +9 (1d8+4/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemy (humans +4, evil outsiders +2)
Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +3)
1st – alarm, longstrider
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21
Feats Alertness, Athletic, Dodge, Endurance, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting
Skills Climb +13, Knowledge (geography) +7 (+9 urban), Knowledge (nature) +7, Perception +11 (+13 urban), Sense Motive +3, Stealth +11 (+13 urban), Survival +10 (+12 urban), Swim +13
Languages Common
SQ favored terrain (urban +2), hunter’s bond (companions), track +2, wild empathy +5
Gear +1 Battleaxe, Masterwork Handaxe, Masterwork Mighty +4 Composite Longbow, Mithral Breastplate, Other Gear,
Two-Handed Weapon Ranger
Male human ranger 5
N Medium humanoid
Init +3 (+5 urban); Senses Perception +9 (+11 urban)
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +1 Dodge)
hp 43 (5d10+15)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Greataxe +10 (1d12+7/x3) (Power Attack: +8, 1d12+13/x3)
Ranged Mighty+4 Composite Longbow +9 (1d8+4/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemy (humans +4, evil outsiders +2)
Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +3)
1st – alarm, longstrider
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21
Feats Dodge, Cleave, Power Attack, Endurance, Toughness, Quick Draw
Skills Climb +11, Knowledge (geography) +7 (+9 urban), Knowledge (nature) +7, Perception +9 (+11 urban), Sense Motive +1, Stealth +11 (+13 urban), Survival +10 (+12 urban), Swim +11
Languages Common
SQ favored terrain (urban +2), hunter’s bond (companions), track +2, wild empathy +5
Gear +1 Greataxe, Masterwork Mighty +4 Composite Longbow, Mithral Breastplate, Other Gear,
Archer Ranger
Male human ranger 5
N Medium humanoid
Init +3 (+5 urban); Senses Perception +9 (+11 urban)
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 43 (5d10+15)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Greataxe +10 (1d12+7/x3)
Ranged Mighty+4 Composite Longbow +7/+7 (1d8+4/x3) (Deadly Aim: +5/+5, 1d8+10/x3)
Special Attacks favored enemy (humans +4, evil outsiders +2)
Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +3)
1st – alarm, longstrider
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21
Feats Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Endurance, Toughness, Quick Draw
Skills Climb +11, Knowledge (geography) +7 (+9 urban), Knowledge (nature) +7, Perception +9 (+11 urban), Sense Motive +1, Stealth +11 (+13 urban), Survival +10 (+12 urban), Swim +11
Languages Common
SQ favored terrain (urban +2), hunter’s bond (companions), track +2, wild empathy +5
Gear +1 Greataxe, Masterwork Mighty +4 Composite Longbow, Mithral Breastplate, Other Gear,
Animal Companion:
Small Cat 2
N Small Animal
Low-Light, Scent
Init +5 Senses Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 16, flat-footed 12 (+5 Dex, +1 size, +1 Natural Armor)
hp 17 (3d8+3)
Fort +4, Ref +8, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Bite +3 (1d4+1/x2 plus trip) and 2 claws +3 (1d2+1/x2)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +2; CMB +3; CMD 18 (22 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Natural Weapon (Claws), Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Acrobatics +13, Stealth +13 (17), Perception +8 Racial Modifiers +4 Acrobatics, +4 Stealth (+8 in undergrowth)
Qualities sprint.
Sprint (Ex)
Once per hour, a small cat can move at 10 times its normal speed (500 feet) when it makes a charge.
Animal Companion:
Horse 2
N Large Animal
Low-Light, Scent
Init +1 Senses Perception +7
DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+1 Dex, -1 size, +4 Natural Armor, +6 Armor)
hp 20 (3d8+6)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft.
Melee Bite +4 (1d4+3/x2) and 2 hooves +4 (1d6+3/x2)
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 15 (19 vs. trip)
Feats Stable Gallop, Medium Armor Proficiency
Skills Perception +7
Gear Breastplate
Not-Ranger
Male human Dragoon 1/Zen Archer 2/Cavalier 2 *must choose horse animal companion
Order of the Blue Rose
N Medium humanoid
Init +3; Senses Perception +9
DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 38 (5d10+10)
Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +4
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Greataxe +10 (1d12+7/x3) (Power Attack: +8, 1d12+13/x3)
Ranged Mighty+4 Composite Longbow +8/8 (1d8+4/x3) (Deadly Aim: +6/+6, 1d8+10/x3)
+2 nonlethal damage, no penalty for nonlethal strikes
Challenge 1/day
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +5; CMB +8; CMD 21
Feats Skill Focus (Ride), Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Perfect Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, Precise Shot, Flurry of Blows (acts like Rapid Shot), Weapon Focus (Longbow), Far Shot, Deadly Aim, Quickdraw, Power Attack, Flat of the Blade (Cavalier: Similar to Stage Combatant; except +2 damage when dealing nonlethal damage), <choose one teamwork feat>
Skills Climb +9, Perception +9, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +9, Survival +6, Swim +9
Languages Common
Gear +1 Greataxe, Masterwork Mighty +4 Composite Longbow, Mithral Breastplate, Other Gear,
Interesting options for the ranger..
Any ideas on his personality?
He'll probably be cocky but helpful.. (the Druid is new to pathfinder..)
What other races are good choices for the ranger and fighter?
Just brainstorming here.
For the ranger... What do you guys think about a level dip in rogue?
Third party stuff is allowed, so maybe 'pet trainer' for animal companion?
Consider the Zen Archer Monk for your rival archer.
Zen archer doesn't have the same primary state as the fighter.
However, monk could work with the Druid.
I think the Druid's rival should be either an oracle.or ranger, though.
Leaning ranger, so he can have a mnemonic vestment the Druid can use if need be and it goes that way, and they can talk about nature-y things.
The dragoon/Zen archer/cavalier I actually like...
What would you trade out for trick shot?
Might as well make the bow adaptive, just in case...
The Not-Ranger human and odd-level feats are Mounted Archery, Deadly Aim, Quickdraw, and Power Attack. Mounted Archery would be the easiest to remove for trick shot. Stable Gallop (from the horse) does a similar benefit that stacks with Mounted Archery. Trick Shot is a spell - I do not see it as a feat (I do not use 3rd party or 3.5 material in my games though). If you choose to trade out Mounted Archery, I would suggest changing Far Shot to Point Blank Shot or Deflect Arrows.
I noticed two typos with my post earlier. The claw damage on the small cat should be 1d3, not 1d2. The BAB of the Not-Ranger should be +4, not +5. This change will reduce the ranged attacks to +7/+7 and +5/+5. This change will reduce CMB and CMD by 1 each.
This is unrelated, but with an archer, a Druid, a cleric, and a nomad psion, that's 4 ranged PC's... Are they doomed without a tank/melee build?
Druid and clerics are ranged? When did this happen?
Oni-Spawn Tielfing cleric of Zon-Kuthon 5
STR 22
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 18
CHA 5
(you can do without dump stats, I find them entertaining though, other than their mechanical benefit)
Domains: Darkness, Destruction
Alt. racial trait: Fiendish Sprinter, Scaled Skin (fire)
Alt. racial ability number 67 (see in darkness)
Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored
1 Improved Initiative
2
3 Power Attack
4
5 Furious Focus
Spells:
3rd lvl: Magic Circle Against Good, Vision of Hell, Deeper darkness (D)
2nd lvl: Grace, Instrument of Agony, Weapon of Awe, Blindness/Deafness (D)
1st lvl: Shield of faith, Divine Favor x3, Obscuring mist (D)
Use a spiked chain for flavor. The above spell list conatians both debuffing / save or suck spells and buffs, so tha you can debuff them and then procede to smack them.
Belt of Strenght +2
Headband of Wisdom +2
Mwk spiked chain
Mwk Breastplate
The archer fighter is now a 2H finesse fighter ifrit with an eleven curve blade.
Her rival will be a drow rogue I think... Maybe she wants the blade, maybe she's offended that an irritated is wielding it.. Any ideas?
I had an idea of the two handed fighter's intelligent cursed weapon being her rival, but would she feel left out not interacting with a NPC?
A rogue cannot confront the fighter heads-on and this is what rivals usually do, so I would avoid it. Keep the drow race, swap the class. Although I could see an elemental race of water (see Undine) to be a more thematic choice than the drow...
Maybe a Undine monk would be a fair deal. A dex-based qinggong hungry ghost monk using dervish dance has a similar yet different concept from the dex-based iffrit elven curved blade user fighter.
Yes, I believe that the fighter will feel left out. He will also not like having his weapon turn on him, fighters do not have anything else to fall back too. Make for him a rival firstly, and then see if you should use any intelligent cursed item.
These rivals aren't battle straight on rivals.. and they have two levels on the PC's.. But is there any other semi-viable 2H Dex build?
Oh, and what rogue fights any enemy head on?
I don't think a rogue would even fight another rogue head on...
Something you need to keep in mind - for recurring villains to be, well... recurring, they need to survive. That means most if not all of them need an 'out' to keep them from being easily slain. At higher levels this is a bit easier with access to things like Teleportation spells but at lower levels its a bit tougher. And to that end, I'd recommend that each time the two groups meet you have at least one of the baddies designated as expendable, so that the PC's feel like they're making progress even when most of the rest of the group escapes.
Another thing to consider is having a 'tweener' member of the villian's group, one that develops a fondness for one of the PC's or is with the bad guys due to unusual circumstances, someone that can create some grey area or betray their group... or perhaps one that enjoys being a double agent. Its definitely something to consider not having the sole interaction between the two groups be combat.
I ran a campaign once with a recurring 'rival' party and learned some very valuable lessons from that.
Redchigh wrote: These rivals aren't battle straight on rivals.. and they have two levels on the PC's.. But is there any other semi-viable 2H Dex build? I've got a really great TH build that isn't Dex based but might serve well - its a Thug with a few levels in TH Fighter who focuses on hitting once really hard each round (I mean REALLY hard) and debuffing his foes. He is also fairly high in skills. What's great is the vast majority of his damage tends to be non-lethal, which gives you an 'out' if you don't want him to kill a PC outright...
Let me know if you're interested.
Story Archer wrote: Something you need to keep in mind - for recurring villains to be, well... recurring, they need to survive. That means most if not all of them need an 'out' to keep them from being easily slain. At higher levels this is a bit easier with access to things like Teleportation spells but at lower levels its a bit tougher. And to that end, I'd recommend that each time the two groups meet you have at least one of the baddies designated as expendable, so that the PC's feel like they're making progress even when most of the rest of the group escapes.
Another thing to consider is having a 'tweener' member of the villian's group, one that develops a fondness for one of the PC's or is with the bad guys due to unusual circumstances, someone that can create some grey area or betray their group... or perhaps one that enjoys being a double agent. Its definitely something to consider not having the sole interaction between the two groups be combat.
I ran a campaign once with a recurring 'rival' party and learned some very valuable lessons from that.
Well, the rivals aren't a group.
They are individual, and will usually have mooks and/or a backup plan.
The other adventuring parties... well, they are individual minor NPC's that will fill in if the PC's decide not to take a mission or get stalled. There are also side-quests. Not all follow straight to the bbeg climax.
Essentially, the PC's get first choice, but if the go all sandboxy, after a while, the person will just hang out in a tavern and see who shows up (like rpgs usually start, it seems).
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