A nice SAD moment, courtesy of Patrick Rothfuss

[Pax JayBrand]

Disclaimer: This excerpt is taken from what I assume is a illegal upload of the book. So I won't link to the section directly. I own the book myself, but not electronically. So writing the whole section down was too time-taking. I'm sorry, Patrick. If this in any way violates some forum rule please delete the thread.

I assume many of us enjoy a good book and, with all the discussion regarding SAD these days past, this section of Patrick Rothfuss' book 'The Name of the Wind' came to mind. It displays a perfect example of how a SAD should go and why banditry doesn't have to be a horrible experience for it's targets. At least not always hehe.
It also gave me the idea of a "Conceal Merchandise" mechanism for PfO's merchants.

Without further ado...

Redacted.

[Bringslite]

Hehe. Nice entertaining read. :)

[Nihimon]

@Pax JayBrand, would you mind editing your post to throw that into a "spoiler" tag to save us unnecessary scrolling? I learned that lesson the hard way after I posted a long transcript for something or another a while back... :)

[Andas]

Good book :) I can't wait for the 3rd. Unfortunately I don't think things will be quite that 'civil' in a game.

[Pax Shane Gifford]

Thanks for sharing Jaybrand. :)

[Being]

Rothfuss' writing is up toward the modern 'great' category with George RR Martin and Joe Abercrombie. I very much like his take on magic.

[T7V Wexel Daventry]

I so wish we could get that granular in a video game as you can in a story or TT. That was a SAD , and looks like it was accepted with the SADee having some tricks up his sleeve!

[Pax Keovar]

Andas wrote:

Unfortunately I don't think things will be quite that 'civil' in a game.

If bandits want to take the great majority of what someone has but can't (permanently) take their life, I wouldn't expect many to submit to the extortion. If you're going to end up heading home broke either way, you may as well try to inflict any inconvenience you can before taking the quicker 'respawn' route rather than a slow, naked trudge.

[Pax JayBrand]

Nihimon wrote:

@Pax JayBrand, would you mind editing your post to throw that into a "spoiler" tag to save us unnecessary scrolling? I learned that lesson the hard way after I posted a long transcript for something or another a while back... :)

Sorry, been busy at work and I can't edit the post anymore :(

Will remember the tip for next time though!

[Pax JayBrand]

I do hope that some mechanics and counter-mechanics can be introduced to allow experienced merchants hide the true value of their load, and experienced bandits will have a higher rate of success at estimating value or discovering hidden goods.

This would make it beneficial for experienced merchants to accept a SAD if they suspect the bandit to not be up to par, and thus limit their loss.

[Steelwing]

Pax JayBrand wrote:

I do hope that some mechanics and counter-mechanics can be introduced to allow experienced merchants hide the true value of their load, and experienced bandits will have a higher rate of success at estimating value or discovering hidden goods.

This would make it beneficial for experienced merchants to accept a SAD if they suspect the bandit to not be up to par, and thus limit their loss.

A question if I may asked without prejudice here

Is it better to give merchants a mechanic to limit there loss?

or to encourage merchants to limit their loss by interacting with others in order to pool resources and hire guards so the bandits feel it is no longer safe to attack?

[Pax Hobs]

Steelwing wrote:

A question if I may asked without prejudice here

Is it better to give merchants a mechanic to limit there loss?

or to encourage merchants to limit their loss by interacting with others in order to pool resources and hire guards so the bandits feel it is no longer safe to attack?

For my two cents, if it is something players can achieve, then let players handle it. It will inspire more player interactivity and reduce the number of game mechanics, which often, are not as effective as hoped in suppressing undesired behavior and more likely allow such people another mechanic to game.

Few mechanics are that fool proof, and those that are, at least in my experience, have reduced player choice, rather than augment it.

[Steelwing]

Pax Hobs wrote:

Steelwing wrote:

A question if I may asked without prejudice here

Is it better to give merchants a mechanic to limit there loss?

or to encourage merchants to limit their loss by interacting with others in order to pool resources and hire guards so the bandits feel it is no longer safe to attack?

For my two cents, if it is something players can achieve, then let players handle it. It will inspire more player interactivity and reduce the number of game mechanics, which often, are not as effective as hoped in suppressing undesired behavior and more likely allow such people another mechanic to game.

Few mechanics are that fool proof, and those that are, at least in my experience, have reduced player choice, rather than augment it.

I know that is your thinking hobs from what you said in the other thread....I was hoping to get mr Jaybrand thinking about it though :)

*edit all you Pax people start to look alike with the damn prefix :)

[Pax Charlie George]

Steelwing wrote:

Pax Hobs wrote:

Steelwing wrote:

A question if I may asked without prejudice here

Is it better to give merchants a mechanic to limit there loss?

or to encourage merchants to limit their loss by interacting with others in order to pool resources and hire guards so the bandits feel it is no longer safe to attack?

For my two cents, if it is something players can achieve, then let players handle it. It will inspire more player interactivity and reduce the number of game mechanics, which often, are not as effective as hoped in suppressing undesired behavior and more likely allow such people another mechanic to game.

Few mechanics are that fool proof, and those that are, at least in my experience, have reduced player choice, rather than augment it.

I know that is your thinking hobs from what you said in the other thread....I was hoping to get mr Jaybrand thinking about it though :)

*edit all you Pax people start to look alike with the damn prefix :)

I can't for the life of me see how you could get that impression :)

[Pax Hobs]

I can guarantee Charlie George is the one pushing the rest around into new formations every five seconds. :)

[Steelwing]

Pax Hobs wrote:

I can guarantee Charlie George is the one pushing the rest around into new formations every five seconds. :)

So Pax charlie George is a slave driver? I was wondering why he had that heinous flag

[Pax Hobs]

No comment. :)

[Bluddwolf]

Unfortunately in a game a robbery / SAD can't really work that way. Main reason for that is time. There just isn't enough of time for the bandits to chat, sort through loot, search for hidden stuff, etc....

As soon as the traveler appears to be delaying, the bandits will get nervous and take the quickest route... Smash and grab!

Unlike in a book, games allow for faster travel, instant global communication, and characters that can't die.

[Pax Charlie George]

Steelwing wrote:

Pax Hobs wrote:

I can guarantee Charlie George is the one pushing the rest around into new formations every five seconds. :)

So Pax charlie George is a slave driver? I was wondering why he had that heinous flag

Some people are just natural born leaders

<snark><sarcasm>

[Pax Shane Gifford]

I think mechanics for hiding the true value of your load can go beyond just minimizing loss when a bandit group shows up. However, most other uses would be corner cases in comparison.

The necessity of such mechanics, in my eyes, would depend on how and how accurately bandits can estimate the value of a merchant's cargo, and how those numbers interact with the SAD mechanic (for example, can a bandit SAD for more than he thinks you have?). Of special import is the specifics on how hideouts "scan" your cargo.

[Chris Lambertz]

Redacted the original post. Please note that any content that infringes and/or violates any patent, trademark, copyright, or other proprietary right of any third party is not OK here.

[Xeen]

Bluddwolf wrote:

Unfortunately in a game a robbery / SAD can't really work that way. Main reason for that is time. There just isn't enough of time for the bandits to chat, sort through loot, search for hidden stuff, etc....

As soon as the traveler appears to be delaying, the bandits will get nervous and take the quickest route... Smash and grab!

Unlike in a book, games allow for faster travel, instant global communication, and characters that can't die.

This, SAD has to be decently quick or its useless.

[Pax JayBrand]

Steelwing wrote:

Pax JayBrand wrote:

I do hope that some mechanics and counter-mechanics can be introduced to allow experienced merchants hide the true value of their load, and experienced bandits will have a higher rate of success at estimating value or discovering hidden goods.

This would make it beneficial for experienced merchants to accept a SAD if they suspect the bandit to not be up to par, and thus limit their loss.

A question if I may asked without prejudice here

Is it better to give merchants a mechanic to limit there loss?

or to encourage merchants to limit their loss by interacting with others in order to pool resources and hire guards so the bandits feel it is no longer safe to attack?

Sorry I didn't get back you on this...work got might busy a while :)

Well, my initial thinking when playing with the thought was to offer merchants something to spice up the otherwise dreadful life of Travel - SAD - Travel - Death - Travel - SAD (i'm no merchant player though...they might enjoy it for all I know).

And for people saying it has to be fast...well it can be. And a SAD should take longer than a smash and grab. A few more seconds won't matter, but with a certain degree of uncertainty to the outcome of a SAD it at least becomes a bit more interesting for the merchant as well.

I'm not proposing something ground-breaking or complicated.
I'm not saying merchants shouldn't arm themselves, but what about those that can't/won't ally with others...shouldn't they also get to have options?
A Hide-Value mechanic that is not a guarantee, but if successful you keep a little more of your hard earned value from being taken by a bandit who is armed with a mechanic that is a 100% guarantee of success.

Don't see how that is very game altering...compared to something like SAD. It's just...spice.