The other night one of my fellow gamers exclaimed, after my 6th fireball, "how many fireballs can you cast?". My response, "lots".
My question is around casting lower level spells at higher levels. Is this the correct way to think about it?
Example:
My first fireballs of the day are normally maximized cast at a lvl 5 slot. (Using Magical Lineage trait) So I tick off a lvl 5 spell used every time.
Currently I can cast 7 lvl 5 spells per day. So after 7 maximized fireballs I can no longer cast anything from a level 5 spot. But I still have all my lvl 3 slots open.
So effectively, not saying I would actually do this, I can use all my spells per day from 3rd level to 7th level on just fireballs. Is this correct or am I overlooking something?
If I wasn't applying metamagic I can still cast a lower level spell at a higher slot correct? If I am out of 3rd levels I can just cast fireball from 4th level?
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Yes, yes, and yes.
All seems correct to me.
Yes, with Magical Lineage (Fireball) you can use all of your 5th level slots to cast Maximized Fireball. Just remember that it will be a full round action instead of a standard action.
There is some debate in the rules as to whether or not you can use higher level slots to cast lower level spells. I personally allow it but there is no change to the DC or any other aspect of the spell. SO, if you wanted to use a 4th level slot to cast Fireball, then go ahead but it will be the same spell effect as if you had used a 3rd level spell. The difference would be if you use Heighten Spell, then the DC and other spell level related variables (such as Globes of Invulnerability) would be at the higher slot used. This would also, however, be cast as a full round action instead of a standard action.
Edit: The relevant section for this is under Magic: Arcane Spells. It says:
"Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels."
I cannot recall the contrary argument, but I know I have seen and heard it so I will update if I can recall it.
I thought so. Thanks for reassuring me. :)
Yes, with Magical Lineage (Fireball) you can use all of your 5th level slots to cast Maximized Fireball. Just remember that it will be a full round action instead of a standard action.
There is some debate in the rules as to whether or not you can use higher level slots to cast lower level spells. I personally allow it but there is no change to the DC or any other aspect of the spell. SO, if you wanted to use a 4th level slot to cast Fireball, then go ahead but it will be the same spell effect as if you had used a 3rd level spell. The difference would be if you use Heighten Spell, then the DC and other spell level related variables (such as Globes of Invulnerability) would be at the higher slot used. This would also, however, be cast as a full round action instead of a standard action.
Yep, just talking about using a 4th level for a regular 3rd level fireball. Not saying I would however, since I have better spells than a regular 3rd level fireball. I was just curious how many I could actually cast.
If you really want to get cheeky, Intensified Dazing Fireballs for the 6th level slots are a quick way to start encountering only enemies that are curiously immune to fire damage.
Edit: Persistent, Sickening, or Empowered (especially with Dragonic bloodline) Fireballs are fun 4th level spells as well.
Agreed with all thus far, but with one note @Hendelbolaf:
Wizards, sorcerers, and bards cast arcane spells. Compared to divine spells, arcane spells are more likely to produce dramatic results.
Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels.
If there's debate over it, then there really shouldn't be, because it's actually stated flat-out in the basic magic rules that you can do it. It repeats it for divine casters as well.
[edit]
Ninja'd by Hendelbolaf's edit. :)
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I found it! It is a line under Sorcerers that says the following:
"Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level."
So, the argument was specific rule over general rule and under sorcerers it says "assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level" so that means that if you used up your spell slots for a 3rd level spell then you cannot use a 4th level slot to cast it.
I countered with a very legal argument that as long as I kept ONE 3rd level spell slot, then I can use whatever higher level spell slots to cast a 3rd level spell because it says "assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level". So in my case, I had not "used up" my 3rd level spells. It was really a ridiculous argument and an overthinking of the rules in my opinion.
I have to agree that's pretty silly. I wouldn't even consider the alternative over-thinking - I'd consider it bad thinking. It's not really "specific trumps general" situation, it'd be a flat-out contradiction.
Your (the correct) interpretation takes into account both the statement under the Sorcerer heading and the fact that the text on arcane preparation explicitly says it applies to Sorcerers (and Bards, and Wizards, and arguably any arcane caster). The other interpretation requires that you ignore the text regarding arcane preparation completely, or assume that the inclusion of Sorcerer in that text is incorrect since it contradicts the class text - which isn't impossible, but highly unlikely.
Or demons, or any of the numerous higher-level creatures that are immune to fire.
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No one is complaining just curious. We actually went up against some nessian hell hounds and a red dragon recently. With the help of the witch in our party I successfully turned them to rabbits :) No need for fireballs. They also failed their will saves unfortunately, a rabbit with a breath weapon would have been awesome!
I am pondering saving up for a Ring of Wizardry type III for my PFS Sorcerer.
Because at 11th level, having spell slots like this:
1st: 8
2nd: 8
3rd: 14
4th: 8
5th: 6
Sounds vaguely appealing. :)
(Realistically, this is a bad idea. Most PFS scenarios don't have 52 rounds of combat...)