Robe of Arcane Heritage and Crossblooded Archetype; How do they interact?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Good Evening Fellow Gamers,

A simple question, I have a sorcerer in my party with the crossblooded archetype, with the Linnorm and Rime Blooded, bloodlines.

The robe of arcane heritage gives you +4 to your sorcerer level for bloodline powers (aquisition and power) but which one would it apply to? Or would it be player's choice? Or would it apply to both?

Thanks for your time and input.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


It boosts both. If he had an Eldritch Heritage as well, it would boost that as well.


THAT...IS...AMAZING!

(He's planning on taking Eldritch Heritage, but he's not sure with bloodline (leaning towards elemental for more ice themed shenanigans)

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


Necro’ing because apparently this thread still shows up in Google searches on this topic and it’s horrible advice that doesn’t have any basis in the rules. The robe of arcane heritage absolutely does not increase “both” bloodlines. As per the robe, “The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.” The rules for crossblooded still apply. The sorcerer can select their powers from either bloodlines available powers, but the robe does not apply independently to each bloodline. In general, it’s best to think about the crossblooded as a single bloodline but regardless of how you semantically think about it, the robe only increases the effective sorcerer level, not the bloodline(s) specifically.

The Exchange

Margarine, I think you're misreading what people are saying here. No one is saying that it's giving you powers from both bloodlines. But the powers are increased regardless of which of the crossblooded bloodlines they originally came from.

Let's say you are a 6th-level crossblooded (aberrant/abyssal, since they are the first two alphabetically). If you took acidic ray (from aberrant) as your 1st-level power and demon resistances (from abyssal) as your 3rd-level power, you would calculate the effects of both powers as if you are a 10th-level sorcerer. You would also get to choose a 9th-level power from either bloodline (but not both) because the robe gives you the powers as if you are 4 levels higher. Which for a crossblooded is one choice.

If you got a power from Eldritch Heritage, you would also treat that specific power as 4 levels higher when determining its effects.

completely unrelated issue:
Bacon's player had the Linnorn and Rime bloodlines, which are wildblooded bloodlines. But crossblooded does not stack with wildblooded.


Crossblooded sorcerer does not have two separate bloodlines. What they have is a single bloodline that has aspects of both bloodlines. It allows the player to choose what bloodline power, feats or spell they gain from between the two. You also gain both bloodline Arcana, but you still only have one bloodline.


Balafon wrote:
Margarine, I think you're misreading what people are saying here. No one is saying that it's giving you powers from both bloodlines.

I came here because there was a Reddit post this morning linking to this thread for the premise that it increased “both” bloodlines, I.e., the PC would gain both 1st and 3rd level powers. It’s a ridiculous interpretation.

That’s how Scavion’s response could be interpreted. In the absence of direct authority from Paizo, players often look to these forums and find threads like this with no opposing viewpoints and argue that as authority. I was trying to cut that off because it’s one of the more egregious misinterpretations I’ve seen.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Crossblooded sorcerer does not have two separate bloodlines. What they have is a single bloodline that has aspects of both bloodlines. It allows the player to choose what bloodline power, feats or spell they gain from between the two. You also gain both bloodline Arcana, but you still only have one bloodline.

That’s how I prefer to describe it as well, but there’s some contention on that point. For example, can a cross-blooded sorcerer qualify for dragon disciple if one of their two bloodlines is draconic? You’ll find answers saying yes and the PC can continue to select powers from either bloodline (leading to some fairly ridiculous results); yes but it only advances the draconic aspect of the bloodline (which doesn’t comport with there being a single bloodline); and no because it’s a “single” bloodline and therefore isn’t the draconic bloodline. All interpretations have some merit to them without any official response from Paizo. But for simple issues like the robes, I agree that treating it as a single bloodline assists with interpretation.

Liberty's Edge

Note that with the Eldritch heritage line of feats you only get to increase the level at wick you use the powers, as you need the feats to access them.

Quote:

Robe of Arcane Heritage

Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 216, Advanced Player's Guide pg. 308
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These elegant, dark purple robes are usually decorated with gold stitching suggesting a particular sorcerer bloodline, though some might indicate a family tree. When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp

If we treat the bolded part as a rule and not fluff the robe can affect only a bloodline at a time.

More important:

Quote:


[PFS Legal] Eldritch Heritage
Source Ultimate Magic pg. 149
You are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins.

Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.

Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Where does it say that you gain the bloodline? You gain one power from the bloodline you select, but not the bloodline, so there is nothing for the robe to affect.


PFSRD wrote:

Improved Eldritch Heritage

The power of your discovered bloodline continues to grow.

This phrasing would suggest that you did get a bloodline.


Mitth'raw'nuru wrote:
PFSRD wrote:

Improved Eldritch Heritage

The power of your discovered bloodline continues to grow.
This phrasing would suggest that you did get a bloodline.

This again? This phrasing would suggest you don't get a bloodline, found in both Eldritch Heritage and Improved... "You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities."

Bloodline is a very specific class feature. You gain a bloodline *power* by burning a feat for it, and yes you can improve this by burning more feats, but you do not gain the Bloodline Class Feature. Unless it literally says you gain a bloodline as the class feature, you do not have a blood line as the class feature. I don't care what your flavor text says.


The same can be said for the Robe of Arcane Heritage, that it's not referencing the Sorcerer Bloodline class feature.

Quote:
When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline.

Either way, if a non sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching does not reweave. So having a bloodline or not doesn't affect the next line that you treat your sorcerer level as 4 higher to determine the effects of bloodline powers.


Mitth'raw'nuru wrote:

The same can be said for the Robe of Arcane Heritage, that it's not referencing the Sorcerer Bloodline class feature.

Quote:
When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline.
Either way, if a non sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching does not reweave. So having a bloodline or not doesn't affect the next line that you treat your sorcerer level as 4 higher to determine the effects of bloodline powers.

Well good thing Eldritch heritage doesn't utilize your sorcerer level.

Eldritch heritage specifically and literally says not to use your sorcerer levels in calculating this, you specifically use character levels "even if you have levels in sorcerer." So sure, go ahead calculate your sorcerer level + 4, then go back and do your character level -2 for eldritch heritage.

Not even bloodragers can utilize robes of arcane heritage, and they literally have the bloodline class feature. So a fully unrelated-to-class feat definitely is not intended to work it. Or find me a more recent FAQ overuling this.

So in case you can't use necessary inference to extract the obvious data: Yes, you must be a sorcerer to benefit in any way from Robes of Arcane Heritage. So your "Either way, if a non sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching does not reweave. So having a bloodline or not doesn't affect the next line that you treat your sorcerer level as 4 higher to determine the effects of bloodline powers..." Statement is 100% emphatically incorrect. RAW and further interpreted by FAQ.


lol, so hostile. Calm down bro.

You could also read it the other way, your sorcerer level is your character level -2. Then you have a "sorcerer level" that can be treated as 4 levels higher.


Mitth'raw'nuru wrote:

lol, so hostile. Calm down bro.

You could also read it the other way, your sorcerer level is your character level -2. Then you have a "sorcerer level" that can be treated as 4 levels higher.

You've been going on for days arguing intent over RAW, I'm nowhere near hostile. Just waiting for you to show the same spunk you've been showing. Or is that just admitting defeat? And no, you can't read it that way, because it's not written that way. You do not have a sorcerer level as far as eldritch heritage is considered, literally. Instead, you utilize character level -2. It is *intended* to be weaker than your other sorcerer abilities, you're not supposed to be able to pick up a class feature equivalent with a couple feats.

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