Got a couple build ideas, what do you think?

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Hello, all! I have two builds here, and I was wondering if I missed anything vital, or if there is a better way to do it.

First is a Human Gunslinger (Pistolero Archetype). So far, I have the list of feats. Well, mostly. Here they are in order.

Class Bonus: Gunsmithing
Human Bonus: Point-Blank Shot
1st Level: Precise Shot
3rd: Deadly Aim
4th: Class bonus: Two-Weapon Fighting
5th: Rapid Shot
7th: Improved Two weapon Fighting
8th Class Bonus: Rapid Reload
8th Hammer The Gap
11th: Improved Precise Shot
12th Class Bonus: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
13th: Clustered Shots
15th: Shadow Strike
16th Class Bonus: ??
17th: ??
19th: ??
20th class Bonus: ??

I wouldn't have minded getting Improved Initiative in there, but 16th level seems a bit late in the game to take that one. I feel like I am getting feats too late, though, like I should have gotten them in earlier in the progression.

The other build is a Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager Archetype). He will ALWAYS be using an axe of some type, and is starting with a masterwork Greataxe. I have the feats and the Rage Powers tallied up, but I feel as if I didn't really pick all that well. I get the feeling I am wandering around with this one, and I should have focused more, or something.

Here are the feats to start.
Human Bonus: Raging Vitality
1st: Power Attack
3rd: Combat Expertise
5th: Improved Trip
7th: Felling Smash
8th: Greater Trip
11th: Tripping Assault
13th: Raging Brutality
15th: Raging Deathblow
17th: Stunning Assault
19th: ??

The Rage Powers are:
2nd: Beast Totem, Lesser
4th: Superstitious
6th: Beast Totem
8th: Witch Hunter
10th: Beast Totem, Greater
12th: Eater of Magic
14th: Ghost Rager
16th: Renewed Vigor
18th: Renewed Vitality
20th: renewed Life

The idea was a tripping, magic resistant barbarian, but I think I wandered a bit aimlessly with this one as well. Or, its pretty good. LOL, I can't tell until I see them at each level, to be honest.

So, if anyone has any suggested fixes for these, or just a re-ordering of feats/ powers, please let me know. Also any suggestions to fill the gaps would be appreciated as well. I appreciate any assistance offered.

[Rerednaw]

Gunslinger...I'd pick up Rapid Shot before two-weapon fighting. Guns are not inexpensive.
Barbarian. Invulnerable Rager, Come and Get Me, Pounce, Spell Sunder is the typical baseline which I'd consider using.

[MatthewN]

Gunslinger needs Rapid Reload way earlier in the build... probably at 1st level. Also how are you making use of Two-weapon Fighting as a human?

[Rerednaw]

The OP didn't say anything about Rapid Reload so I figured he was using modern firearms. Which is a move-action which jumps down to free with cartridges.

But if not modern, then yeah you will need Rapid Reload to bring the reload time down to a move action (and again to a free with cartridges).

Get reliable enchantment as soon as you can afford it (else go Dwarf and use their favored class bonus).

[nate lange]

looks like you're getting plenty of gunslinger advice... for the barbarian:

it looks fine. depending on your campaign/GM may you may get frustrated with Trip at mid to high levels- if you tend to keep fighting other humanoids who are just gaining more levels as well, it should be ok but against monsters things like size and flight are going to make it harder and harder to use effectively (in many campaigns, by the time you get tripping assault you'll already be having trouble finding opportunities to use it).

one possibility to consider is using a dwarf- they get free proficiency in the longaxe (same damage but with reach), you could drop combat expertise (which would allow you to invest less in Int) and the trip feats and instead pick up combat reflexes (for more attacks), steel soul (to really be magic resistant), and whatever other feats you want. and against most humanoids you'd still be able to try to trip if you want since they won't threaten you back while using reach, so there's no AoO (though you do lose the extra +2s).

[Grizzled Gryphon]

For the Gunslinger, I was going for the Rapid Reload/ Alchemical Paper Cartridges for the free action reloading. However, does that work for two weapons? I believe you need a free hand to reload. I saw somewhere an idea of a two weapon fighting Pistolero Gunslinger using double barreled pistols getting 10 shots at level 11. But how is he reloading?

The Dwarven Barbarian does look nice. I don't know if I like the idea of a reach weapon, though. They can just move in on you with a five foot step. However, the tripping while they don't threaten is pretty cool. But, for flavor reasons, I am sticking with the human. Considering the lack of tripping at higher levels (never considered the flying opponents and whatnot...), is there another aim I should go for? In the end, I guess someone that does as much damage as possible would be the way to go. I was throwing the tripping in there for the BFC.

@Rerednaw: What do you mean by "Invulnerable Rager, Come and Get Me, Pounce, Spell Sunder is the typical baseline which I'd consider using."? I have the pounce, and I somehow missed the come and get me (didn't notice that wasn't in there, even though I intended it to be. I was tired, LOL), And I don't know how I missed Spell Sunder. That is awesome!

[sunbeam]

With the Barbarian I kind of think the maneuver feats are kind of a waste in the long run.

If you play long enough the only thing that will make them work against larger opponents is the strength surge rage power.

Strength surge is also great for using with Spell Sunder, which is something you definitely need to work into this build.

Improved Trip is good for avoiding the AoO's, but I wouldn't take any others really.

I also would not take Stunning Assault, I'd take Dazing Assault, which is pretty much better IMHO. Pretty much the same effect and it works on a lot more stuff.

In your shoes I'd drop Greater Trip, Felling Smash, Tripping Assault, Raging Deathblow, and Stunning Assault.

Instead I'd take Extra Rage Power:Spell Sunder, Toughness, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Dazing Assault. Heck I'd probably also take Lightning Reflexes, since I like Rings of Evasion.

Maneuvers are kind of funny. It is important to avoid AoO's, but Strength Surge is how you succeed at one. You really won't use them much unless you actually get next to a normal size humanoid caster at the higher levels. Though a 20th level Barbarian is one of the few PC characters that can pull off something like tripping a Titan, or bull rushing one of the refugees from a Japanese monster movie that compose the the high CR foes.

And magical defenses just get more and more important as you level not less. Some people think that a good fort save, and the bonuses from Rage are all you need. I think your fort and will saves can never be too high.

You also don't have a way to rage cycle listed, until you hit 17th level. It is well worth taking a level of Oracle and getting the lame feature. Losing a point of bab isn't bad at all, since you get that, improved will saves, and some other features.

I know it sounds cookie cutter, but rage cycling is where the barbarian magic is. And the fact that build after build uses the same rage powers, and the Invulnerable Rager archetype ought to say somthing.

[nate lange]

a human barb could spend their extra feat on proficiency with the Longaxe... you lose access to steel soul (and the glory of old trait), but eventually the human favored class bonus will make up for it (if you put it towards the superstition bonus every level, you'll tie the dwarf's bonus at 15th)

[Rerednaw]

@Grizzled Gryphon.

Under Class Guides. There is one titled BARBARIAN AM SMASH.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ump_KFzNoD7x6aJ9ywGank5G9DzSVlef28bBbju Iq2U/edit?pli=1

The last page has a build as follows:

Build: Invulnerable Rager 20
Race: Human (Heart of the fields- 1/day ignores fatigue or exhaustion)
or Dwarf
Favored Class:
Human= Favored Bonus: 2 to skills, 18 to Superstition
Dwarf= HP or Rage Rounds as you like
2 traits- Optimistic Gambler (Human) or Glory of Old (Dwarf)
and another I like:
Missing Sibling (sense motive and diplomacy are class skills)
Fast Movement, Rage, Power Attack, H- Raging Vitality
DR1/-, Lesser Beast Totem
Extreme Endurance, Improved Sunder
DR2/-, Power: Strength Surge
Extra Rage Power: Superstition
DR3/-, Cold Resist1, Beast Totem
Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
DR4/-, Witchunter
Cold Resist2, Combat Reflexes
DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem
Greater Rage Dazing Assault
Cold Resist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me
Extra Rage Power: Spell Sunder
DR7/-, Eater of Magic
Cold Resist4, Raging Brutality
DR8/-, Ghost Rager
Tireless Rage, Extra Rage Power: Smasher
DR9/-, Cold Resist5, Surprise Accuracy
Extra Rage Power: Sunder Enchantment
Mighty Rage, DR10/-, Good for What Ails You

Alternatively in a caster/magic heavy campaign I'd suggest a modified progression and getting Spell Sunder earlier.

01-Fast Movement, Rage, Power Attack
02-DR1/-, Superstition,
03-Extreme Endurance, Improved Sunder
04-DR2/-, Power: Strength Surge
05-Extra Rage Power: Witchhunter
06-DR3/-, Cold Resist1, Spell Sunder
07-Extra Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
08-DR4/-, Beast Totem
09-Cold Resist2, Combat Reflexes
10-DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem
11-Greater Rage Dazing Assault
12-Cold Resist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me
13-Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
14-DR7/-, Eater of Magic
15-Cold Resist4, Raging Brutality
16-DR8/-, Ghost Rager
17-Tireless Rage, Extra Rage Power: Smasher
18-DR9/-, Cold Resist5, Surprise Accuracy
19-Extra Rage Power: Sunder Enchantment
20-Mighty Rage, DR10/-, Good for What Ails You

Again general guidelines.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Thanks, Rerednaw. I like the second progression you have there. No Raging Vitality, or is that the human feat not listed?