Amateur Gunslinger - not trading it

[karossii]

So, the amateur gunslinger feat grants a single 1st level gunslinger deed, and up to your WIS/day in grit (starting with 1 each day). If you ever gain levels in a class that grants grit, you can immediately trade the feat for the extra grit feat.

So, what if the class gains grit, but not at first level? You would lose your grit for X levels if you trade the feat away.

Or, what if you gain levels in a class that grants grit, but don't grant the deed you selected via this feat? If you trade the feat, you would lose that deed.

In the first case, would you rule that the player could trade the feat when he actually gained grit from the class, and not only the first level of the class that will eventually gain grit?

In the second case, do you think the feat slot is worth a single 1st level deed?

Are there other scenarios in which you would keep the feat?

[MurphysParadox]

You lose the feat and gain a different feat, so yes you lose the deed gained with the feat.

You can still exchange the feat upon joining a class with delayed grit access, but it won't be usable until you actually gain grit points. You don't have a score of zero without the feature; you have a score of null. So the maximum score doesn't become 2 with extra grit, it simply stays null.

But that point is somewhat moot since you'd have lost the deed anyway, so you'd have nothing on which to spend those extra grit points.

[karossii]

Right, I am aware of both those points - they are exactly what I stated in the first post. That is why I was indicating such characters may choose to NOT trade the feat.

My questions are,

1) Would you allow the character to retain the feat (amateur gunslinger) up until they actually gained grit, THEN trade it for extra grit?

2) Do you feel it is worth a feat slot to simply gain one deed?

3) Are there any other scenarios in which you could see keeping the feat, after gaining levels in a class with the grit class feature?

[Honorable Goblin]

Amateur Gunslinger (Combat) wrote:

Although you are not a gunslinger, you have and can use grit.

Prerequisite: You have no levels in a class that has the grit class feature.

Benefit: You gain a small amount of grit and the ability to perform a single 1st-level deed from the gunslinger deed class feature. At the start of the day, you gain 1 grit point, though throughout the day you can gain grit points up to a maximum of your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can regain grit using the rules for the gunslinger's grit class feature (see page 9). You can spend this grit to perform the 1st-level deed you chose upon taking this feat, and any other deed you have gained through feats or magic items.

Special: If you gain levels in a class that grants the grit class feature, you can immediately trade this feat for the Extra Grit feat.

Emphasis mine.

"Can" implies a choice; you don't have to trade the feat. The use of the word "immediately," however, means (to my understanding) that the choice of whether or not to trade it must be made when you first gain a level in a class that grants the Grit class feature (so no waiting until later levels to swap it out, even if the class doesn't get Grit at 1st level).

To answer your 3 other questions:

karossii wrote:

1) Would you allow the character to retain the feat (amateur gunslinger) up until they actually gained grit, THEN trade it for extra grit?

What is RAW and what I allow are two different things. RAW: no*; in my home games: probably, yes.

*There are retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign

karossii wrote:

2) Do you feel it is worth a feat slot to simply gain one deed?

Don't know. Haven't encountered this mechanic in actual play.

karossii wrote:

3) Are there any other scenarios in which you could see keeping the feat, after gaining levels in a class with the grit class feature?

If the class in question didn't actually grant the use of the 1st level gunslinger deed you gained when taking the feat; otherwise, no (but see my answer to #2).

[Cap. Darling]

Yes to 1.
Yes to 2.
If you want firearms things like Quick clear is worth a feat.
No to 3.
The gunslinger archtypes that would be able to buy back the deeds they traded is already a bit over the top.
Also i wouldent allow a Holy gun to buy the musket Master special reload deed for a feat.
Edit: i misundestood a question it is fixed now.

[Mojorat]

amature gunslinger no longer functions when you become a gunslinger as you nolonger meet the prereq. so you do not benefit from the grit or deed.

[karossii]

Honorable Goblin; I see your point and understand it. It is one interpretation that lead to question one. However, another reason to use the verbiage "immediately" is to emphasize that the character can immediately trade it, without waiting for a retraining period, etc. I can see both interpretations, thus the query.

Mojorat - good point, and one I hadn't considered. And RAW accurate.