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So I am considering running Rise of the Runelords in DragonLance for my next campaign. My first concern is how to make the Runelords fit with DL history. Using the timeline presented in the 3.5 E DragonLance Campaign Setting, I was considering making them great magelords from the time before the Towers of High Sorcery were built. They ruled various parts of Ansalon for many years and were slowly destroyed by Tower mages around 2,500 years ago instead of 10,000 years in the past. They were deemed the "First Renegades," and were defeated by the combined might of the three newly founded Orders. The campaign will be set 20 years or so after the events of the Legends trilogy. After I get the background set, I will move forward with other conversion stuff. This will mostly be location-related, as I want to leave as much of the campaign as written in tact. Any advice is welcome!
Dotting. An odd but interesting concept.
I know you said location neutral, but Southern Ergoth might be a good place to locate the adventure. It is diverse, with many different cultures, and has a variety of geographical features.
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Same reason they didn't strip Raistlin of his abilities before Legends... plot device.
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Why not do it on Taladas? There is lots of unknown history there and it is not as well established as Ansalon.
20 years after Legends is the Chaos War though.
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20 years after Legends is the Chaos War though.
Good thing home games don't have to follow official canon. :)
I thought he meant 20 years after the events of Cataclysm.
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The Runelords could have been servants of Chaos who during the big fight tried to betray Chaos to the enemy forces. Whose punishment was to be put into suspended animation for their crimes. A order of renegade mages who caused all the three orders of magic to unite and defeat them. For wanting to become gods or abuse of power or something similar. I can't see Takhisis creating or working with them. She is too competitive and not willing to share power with anyone. Paladine is too much of a good laigned good pt work with them.
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Personally, I'd be one to cheer for the Runelords on this one. I never liked the idea of "if you don't join an order of high sorcery well hunt you down."
Number one reason I didn't like the setting.
The Chaos War never happens in my version of the setting. Though I really enjoyed Dragons of Summer Flame, I did not like what happened after and therefore ignore it. The campaign takes place 20 years after the Legends trilogy. The reason I thought that making the Runelords an ancient enemy from the time prior to the Orders and just after their founding is that there hasn't been anything published about that era (that I am aware of, anyway). Mages from that time could be into all kinds of wacky shenanigans, such as "sin magic," with no centralized force to really oppose them. The Orders, after their defeat, would have tried to destroy all traces of them. Only the heads of the Conclave from that time forward would have knowledge of the Runelords' evil and the extent of their powers, and would pass it along for posterity to each successive Conclave head should they rise again in an attempt to enslave the world. I want to keep it on Ansalon because that's what my players know, and can therefore immerse themselves in the setting without too much exposition on my part.
No Chaos War...but I like a lot of...well some of... that stuff :-(
Ah well, different things for different people.
FYI there will be spoiler in my post about about RotRL...I would keep that in mind and not read if you care.
I think you are on the right track as far as what the Runelords did and how they functioned. Its clear that before the fall of Istar (and in the case of the truly enterprising post Istar) it was possible to do things that others could not conceive of with magic and given the odd sense of involvement/disengagement of the triplets of magic there is plenty of reasons both intricate and hand wavy to say why they didn't intervene (as well as the others because lets face it the one thing you (mostly) can rely on in Dragonlance is that a god would rather send a person to do a god's job)
What I think I would focus on more is skinning things, there is plenty of instances where things got built on top of or used Runlords magic (like the temple under Sandpoint.) where you would want to pick the right gods to replace Golarion ones for instance.
The other thing I would be sensitive to (depending on what classic D&D things you have introduced) is creature selection. Given the setting it may not make sense to use goblins, giants, the lamashtu in part 2, and other things depending on where you put Sandpoint. Depending on how you handled Draconian populations post WoL they could be the primary antagonists in many cases (like part 1) and you could replace giants with minotaurs or other more setting appropriate enemies. I just can't ever recall giants for some reason but my memory isn't great about that stuff ever since my son was born. Toddlers ruin memory!
I think the plot threads of RotRL make a lot of sense in DL..in some ways more because the AP has a sense of "only we can stop it" which isn't quite true in Golarion with the cast of characters there is but that might be true of most D&D/PF settings.
I once toyed with the idea of having the Runelords in Dragonlance. There is a place called the "City of Lost Names" in the Northern Wastes in Solamnia which was ruled by very powerful magic users in the Age of Dreams. Who or what race the ruling "warlocks" were is left vague, but they were so powerful and arrogant that the gods unleashed their wrath and destroyed the city and thus created the Northern Wastes. This happened long before the Orders of Sorcery started, but the example of the city (and it's dangerous use of magic) did play a role in the Moon Gods later decision to create the Orders. That's why I didn't consider the early Orders fighting the Runelords, they would have been long gone. But I did have the High Conclave be aware of the lords existence via the Moon Gods of Magic and thus aware of a probable future threat.
I thought of making that city the capital and heart of the Runelord's power and lords themselves the ruling council around a reclusive Arcane Emperor. When the city and surrounding lands where destroyed, the seven lords either fled to hidden enclaves the empire had placed around Ansalon and went into hibernation. Or maybe used the Anvil of Time to escape into the future.
Dragonlance: Empire of Runes
Capital: City of Lost Names
Hidden Points of Power: Last Gaard Mountains (Southern Ergoth), World Cap Mountains (Karthay Island), under the ruined city of Beal (Blood Sea of Istar), Neahila Isle (my own creation in the Northern Sirrion Ocean), in the Wood of Lahue, under the city of Qindaras, and somewhere in the Vingaard Mountains (Solamnia).
This was a far as I got though. I was just brainstorming after all. :)
I once toyed with the idea of having the Runelords in Dragonlance. There is a place called the "City of Lost Names" in the Northern Wastes in Solamnia which was ruled by very powerful magic users in the Age of Dreams. Who or what race the ruling "warlocks" were is left vague, but they were so powerful and arrogant that the gods unleashed their wrath and destroyed the city and thus created the Northern Wastes. This happened long before the Orders of Sorcery started, but the example of the city (and it's dangerous use of magic) did play a role in the Moon Gods later decision to create the Orders. That's why I didn't consider the early Orders fighting the Runelords, they would have been long gone. But I did have the High Conclave be aware of the lords existence via the Moon Gods of Magic and thus aware of a probable future threat.
I thought of making that city the capital and heart of the Runelord's power and lords themselves the ruling council around a reclusive Arcane Emperor. When the city and surrounding lands where destroyed, the seven lords either fled to hidden enclaves the empire had placed around Ansalon and went into hibernation. Or maybe used the Anvil of Time to escape into the future.
Dragonlance: Empire of Runes
Capital: City of Lost Names
Hidden Points of Power: Last Gaard Mountains (Southern Ergoth), World Cap Mountains (Karthay Island), under the ruined city of Beal (Blood Sea of Istar), Neahila Isle (my own creation in the Northern Sirrion Ocean), in the Wood of Lahue, under the city of Qindaras, and somewhere in the Vingaard Mountains (Solamnia).This was a far as I got though. I was just brainstorming after all. :)
Was the City of Lost Names your invention, or did you pull it from some sourcebook? I came up with my timeframe for the Runelords from the timeline of Krynn in the 3.5 DragonLance Campaign Setting, specifically the information about the First and Second Dragon Wars. I could imagine magelords aplenty running amok before the Orders, with essentially no centralized governments to do anything about them. The Runelords could have been the greatest of these, and were basically the last straw as far as the gods were concerned. In their hubris, they were abusing the gift of magic, so the magic gods taught some willing students the benefit of balance and cooperation so they could lay the smack down.
You could change the rune lords to dragon overlords. And, then fling the campaign 10,000 years into the future.
The a chaos war could have happened and not matter anymore.
I know you said location neutral, but Southern Ergoth might be a good place to locate the adventure. It is diverse, with many different cultures, and has a variety of geographical features.
Actually, location is what I need to focus on quite a bit so I can capture the feel of where the AP is set. I was considering Northern or Southern Ergoth as well. I am leaning more toward Northern just because it isn't overrun with ogres as Southern is. I could just use all of Ergoth as a whole as well. Thoughts?
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I know you said location neutral, but Southern Ergoth might be a good place to locate the adventure. It is diverse, with many different cultures, and has a variety of geographical features.Actually, location is what I need to focus on quite a bit so I can capture the feel of where the AP is set. I was considering Northern or Southern Ergoth as well. I am leaning more toward Northern just because it isn't overrun with ogres as Southern is. I could just use all of Ergoth as a whole as well. Thoughts?
Well actually only about a quarter of the island is Ogres. Southern Ergoth can basically be divided into quadrants, NW is Solamnics, NE is Ergothians, SW is Elves, and SE is Ogres, and the mountains are in the middle. But there is also lots of vast wilderness in between all that many places of interest can be set. Northern Ergoth is similar, in that its Ergothians to the west, kender to the east, barbarians to the north, and goblins to the south, although overall it just feels a little more "tame", whereas Southern has that frontier feel.
I did also like the idea for the Northern Wastes and the City of the Lost Names to be used and the Runelords are why they are actually "Wastes" now. Kalaman could fill in as Magnimar in that scenario.
*shameless plug time* I also share your loathing for what happened at the very end of Summer Flame and what came after....therefore I actually made/expanded a timeline of progression to follow events as if the gods had never..."departed". Perhaps you will like it, or at least get a bit of inspirations from it.
Here is the link: Age of Dragons timeline
I'm here because I love Ansalon. Carry on...:)
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Hopefully that helps you some.
Hopefully that helps you some.
Now THAT is a sweet map!
So, if I were to choose Southern Ergoth for the setting of the AP, where should I place the various locations? I think Sandpoint should still be Sandpoint, but what about Magnimar, Turleback Ferry, and other cities?
Love this thread.
But do it in taladas. TALADAS!!
@RedRobe,
Excellent idea to put in Southern Ergoth, and love your backstory on how to integrate it into Dragonlance lore. I might "borrow" this idea once I get my ROTRL book, sorry I can't more contribute at this time.
I would use Sandpoint as is (since there a decent amount of material available on it) and place it at... (looking at map)...just south of the words "Plains of Tothen" and on the corner of the coast just west of the words "Thunder Bay" as on the map of War of the Lance Sourcebook, page 140.
That way its away from all the mayor population centers and races, it could have been built as a trading town at any point in time, and it is nice and isolated from the wars and main encounters of the region.
The other cities can be add latterly anywhere, that section of SE is basically population empty...
How should I handle arcane spellcasters taking their Test of High Sorcery? Prospective new members would need to journey to Wayreth some time after gaining 2nd level spells, but before they gain 3rd. Could those of you who have played through RotRL suggest where I could splice in a side trek adventure for a Test?
You could have the wizards of the tower come to take them to the tower or have them arrive to administer the test "On site." One could even postulate that going to defeat the Runelord would put them through trial and test their morals and allegiances thus qualifies as the Test. I believe their precedent for it.
Are you using Zhea Harbor as Magnimar?
Honestly, relatively speaking, Wayreth isnt very far from the adventure locale, a not too long trip across the Straights of Algoni, going to port at Halter Wood, and then a short trek from there. Shouldnt be too hard to fit in.
Waywreth could be next to the group but could be as far as away as it needs to be, if it does not want to be found. BWHAA HAAA. Take that Remy! :)
See, Shalafi, I always took that to mean that the Tower could be anywhere it wants in Wayreth Forest (i.e. the southern section of the greater Qualinesti Forest), not anywhere it wants to be on the entire face of Ansalon. ;)
Are you using Zhea Harbor as Magnimar?
Honestly, relatively speaking, Wayreth isnt very far from the adventure locale, a not too long trip across the Straights of Algoni, going to port at Halter Wood, and then a short trek from there. Shouldnt be too hard to fit in.
Where is that on the map?
See, Shalafi, I always took that to mean that the Tower could be anywhere it wants in Wayreth Forest (i.e. the southern section of the greater Qualinesti Forest), not anywhere it wants to be on the entire face of Ansalon. ;)
They could be next to it but if it does not want to be found it won't manifest. Close but sooo far away. Take that! :)
Where is that on the map?Are you using Zhea Harbor as Magnimar?
Honestly, relatively speaking, Wayreth isnt very far from the adventure locale, a not too long trip across the Straights of Algoni, going to port at Halter Wood, and then a short trek from there. Shouldnt be too hard to fit in.
Zhea Harbor, or Halter Wood/Wayreth?
Zhea Harbor is an Ergothian city in eastern Southern Ergoth, it sits on the northeast side of Morgash Bay, opposite of Daltigoth.
Halter Wood (Alsip would work too) lies in the region of Kharolis, which is south of Qualinesti, west of the Plains of Dust, and across the water to the southeast from Southern Ergoth. Techincally the southern quarter of the Qualinesti Forest is the Forest of Wayreth, and the Tower moves around in there wherever it desires.
You should be able to find all of this on the map I linked earlier in the thread.
Where is that on the map?Are you using Zhea Harbor as Magnimar?
Honestly, relatively speaking, Wayreth isnt very far from the adventure locale, a not too long trip across the Straights of Algoni, going to port at Halter Wood, and then a short trek from there. Shouldnt be too hard to fit in.
Zhea Harbor, or Halter Wood/Wayreth?
Zhea Harbor is an Ergothian city in eastern Southern Ergoth, it sits on the northeast side of Morgash Bay, opposite of Daltigoth.
Halter Wood (Alsip would work too) lies in the region of Kharolis, which is south of Qualinesti, west of the Plains of Dust, and across the water to the southeast from Southern Ergoth. Techincally the southern quarter of the Qualinesti Forest is the Forest of Wayreth, and the Tower moves around in there wherever it desires.
You should be able to find all of this on the map I linked earlier in the thread.
Zhea Harbor. I was having trouble finding it on the map. Now that you gave me some directions, I can see it. I haven't fully decided on where anything will be, other than Southern Ergoth. I may just cram the cities in as-is instead of renaming them. Right now this is one of many possible campaigns I have bouncing around in my noggin. I'm not sure when I may get to it, but I find it a good creative exercise to think about future games.
See, Shalafi, I always took that to mean that the Tower could be anywhere it wants in Wayreth Forest (i.e. the southern section of the greater Qualinesti Forest), not anywhere it wants to be on the entire face of Ansalon. ;)They could be next to it but if it does not want to be found it won't manifest. Close but sooo far away. Take that! :)
Obviously Shalafi, we all know that, but it's not gonna happen to a mage who has been invited to come take his test. ;)
Redrobe, I would just do it between the first and second books. PC's should be level 3/4ish.
TALADAS I SAY!
So I was thinking a certain aasimar cleric of Lamashtu could be changed to an Irda cleric of Morgion. Thoughts?
So I was thinking a certain aasimar cleric of Lamashtu could be changed to an Irda cleric of Morgion. Thoughts?
Or even Takhisis. She had a penchant for mothering monsters. Then again that was something of a general thing of the evil gods. The evil gods sire monsters and progeny while the good gods work through followers and artifacts.