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| 12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Benefit: Anytime a rogue with this talent successfully hits an opponent with a sneak attack, she may forgo her sneak attack damage to try to hamstring her opponent. If the attack succeeds, the rogue deals weapon damage as normal, but instead of the rogue dealing sneak attack damage, the target is knocked prone and is unable to take move actions during its next turn. A successful Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Dexterity modifier) negates this effect.
Is the target still able to make a full attack (possible with a 5 ft. step) while being unable to do stuff like drawing a weapon, reloading a crossbow or directing a flaming sphere?
Benefit: Anytime a rogue with this talent successfully hits an opponent with a sneak attack, she may forgo her sneak attack damage to try to hamstring her opponent. If the attack succeeds, the rogue deals weapon damage as normal, but instead of the rogue dealing sneak attack damage, the target is knocked prone and is unable to take move actions during its next turn. A successful Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Dexterity modifier) negates this effect.Is the target still able to make a full attack (possible with a 5 ft. step) while being unable to do stuff like drawing a weapon, reloading a crossbow or directing a flaming sphere?
Good question. Unable to take move actions. Is not a normal limitation on ones actions in PF. It seems it should have said unable to use any actions on moving or somthing.
I FAQed it.
Faq'ed.
I assumen it is meant to restrict movement, rather than other actions. Otherwise it might as well be the staggered condition.
If you simply looses your move action, you can actually move using your standard action, which doesn't really fit the idea of hamstring.
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If you simply looses your move action, you can actually move using your standard action, which doesn't really fit the idea of hamstring.
I don't think that would work since you would take a move action instead of a standard action. The target of Hamstring Strike does not lose its move action, it's just unable to use it.
If you simply looses your move action, you can actually move using your standard action, which doesn't really fit the idea of hamstring.I don't think that would work since you would take a move action instead of a standard action. The target of Hamstring Strike does not lose its move action, it's just unable to use it.
You are right about that.
I was looking at the movement rules, that doesn't specify using your standard action for movement as an actual move action. But elsewhere it does.It might, however, allow charging as a standard action, since the character is "able to take only a standard action".
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RAW, a character is not limited to standard actions. He would still be able to use full-round actions.
The problem with charging, as well as running, is that the character is also prone. A character with Monkey Style however would be able to do so, standing up as a swift action and than run or charge as a full-round action.
Another question would be how it interacts with freedom of movement.
I would say the intention of the ability is not to remove the move action, but to remove the ability to move from the square they are in under their own power.
To that end, I would say they still have their move action and standard action, but that they can't do any movement from their square. Not even a 5ft step.
But that is just what I think it should have been. Not what it says. The RAW is you lose your move action. Which would mean no full attack action, but you could still move from your square using a standard action, though you would have to stand up first (which would use you standard action normally).
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The RAW is clear but it definitely needs to be fixed.
RAW says he cannot take Move actions. The CRB lists them as:
Move
Direct or Redirect a Spell
Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Manipulate an Item
Mount/Dismount a Steed
Ready or Drop a Shield
Stand Up
There are a few more on the actions table.
Standard Actions and Full-Round actions are entirely different things and the RAW regarding Hamstring Attack says the target cannot take Move actions but is not limited with regard to Standard or Full-Round actions. Which, oddly, means they cannot move their normal movement rate (which is a Move action) but they can run at 2x or 4x their movement rate (which is a Full-Round action).
Furthermore, no matter how much you slice up someone's hamstring (in their leg), you should not be able to prevent someone from, say, dropping a shield or drawing a sword. These things are explicitly Move actions and therefore explicitly prevented by Hamstring Attack. But they shouldn't be.
So, by RAW, you're prone and you cannot stand up (Move action), but if, say, someone helps you up, you could still run at x4 move rate (Full-Round action) but you cannot move at 1x move rate (Move action). You cannot draw a weapon, drink a potion, equip a shield, drop a shield, pick up something from the ground, get something out of a belt pouch, etc.
Clearly, the author meant to say something like "the target is knocked prone and is unable to move next turn."
This should receive an Errata. Not a FAQ, but an actual rules change to fix the broken rule.
Note that by RAW and by RAI you can still attack and full-attack from the ground since attacking is a Standard Action and full-attack is a Full-Round action, neither of which is affected by the broken RAW and neither of which should be impacted by the RAI.
I have to agree with DM_Blake. The RAW is clear - it just doesn't really make any sense within the context of the ability. The RAI would be that you cannot use a move action to actually move, but that other move actions would be viable.
DM_Blake,
Not that I think you're wrong necessarily but I figured if for some reason you were denied your move action it effectively removed that portion of activity for the round. I mean, using a full round action effectively subsumes both your standard and move action. Does that make sense?
I see you saying being denied your move action doesn't impact your ability to make a full round action, though it seems like it should to me. Thoughts?
Nevermind the broken RAW and Hamstring not doing what it was intending to. I think we agree it how it should work, but not it what it actually does.
