So I just noticed the feat "arcane blast" and I thought... could this be used well? I'm just fishing here, I know it would be a high-level thing, with "moderate" value, but I'm thinking a sorcerer with decent dex could use this well. Plus it's a supernatural ability that does flat damage (though I dont know how it interacts with DR). Any ideas?
As I see it, a catfolk sorcerer could do well; boosts to dex & cha, lower strength.
Its a trap unfortunately. Comes out doing less damage than the spell you would sacrifice and it requires 10th level. More worth it to use greater spell specialization and a blast spell of your choice imo.
Well, I dont think it's entirely a trap; I wont deny it isnt GREAT, but I think it's an interesting option. I want to see how to make it work best.
But yeah, 10th level is VERY high.
It seems to be like a far cry of the arcane fire the Archmage prestige class used to have, back in 3.5 (far worse though).
I like it for being a supernatural ability (No AoO, no SR) and good in situations where you would not be able to cast something or needed to concentrate in order to. The way it's written i think no dmg. red or resistance would apply so it's more like a "pure damage" effect. It's a ray (weapon like)so you could apply a few extra stuff on it.
An Arcane trickster build might be able to use it well by applying the sneak attack dmg on it (as it did back then).
It seems to be like a far cry of the arcane fire the Archmage prestige class used to have, back in 3.5 (far worse though).
I like it for being a supernatural ability (No AoO, no SR) and good in situations where you would not be able to cast something or needed to concentrate in order to. The way it's written i think no dmg. red or resistance would apply so it's more like a "pure damage" effect. It's a ray (weapon like)so you could apply a few extra stuff on it.
An Arcane trickster build might be able to use it well by applying the sneak attack dmg on it (as it did back then).
Arcane trickster IS an interesting idea... would loose out on spell slots though.
How does sneak attack DMG interact with DR? Does is go the same type as the attack?
Extra SA dmg is the same type as the source i think.
Btw nevermind the "no AoO" part because the "spell into arcane blast" wont provoke, but the ranged attack will. :/
Ok, I've been thniking about how to do this with the least dithering, and here is how I see it:
1 Rogue/ninja/vivisectionist (one of the three)
2 Sorcerer/Wizard
3
4
5
6 Field agent (take the "sneak attack" field agent training(
7+ Arcane strickster
This is the option I see that looses the least caster levels.
Wouldn't a race with a SLA (2nd lvl or higher), a level of wiz/sorc , 3 lvls of rogue/ninja/whatever and then straight AT be better?That, plus the trait "magical knack" and you are only 1 Caster level behind, meaning at 11th lvl you can take arcane blast.
Note: You need 3 things: 2nd level casting, mage hand, and 2d6 sneak attack (for arcane trickster). Doable, but in the end I still would not qualify for arcane blast at 11 (because my arcane caster level is still too low). THen again, it does say CL 10th. In any case, I still want to limit the amount of non-casty levels, if only to maximize the amount off spell slots (since I'm still limited by them).
A race with an arcane spell like ability of second level or higher and one level in an arcane class (for mage hand and in order to improve your caster level and benefit from the +1 level of existing class that arcane trickster gives you)qualifies for the first prerequisite. spell like abilities can be used in place for the "able to cast spells of X level" requirement as long as its the same level, and in this case, 2nd or higher.
3 levels of rogue/ninja etc will grant 2d6 sneak attack and by this level you can have the required skill ranks.
At 5th level you can start the arcane trickster prestige.
At this point you are 3 caster levels behind but here is where "magical knack trait" comes in to give +2. So now you are 1 caster level behind. At 11th level your caster level is 10 so you can take arcane blast just in time.
I also think you need to be at least 3rd level agent in order to take the "sneak attack" field training, so that puts you even more behind.
That's what i thought too, concerning scorching ray and sneak attack, but after searching a lot around here, i found out that (james jacobs i think) clarified that sneak attack damage is applied only once on spells, even if you direct the rays (on scorching ray's occasion) at different targets. Only one ray gets the sneak attack boost.
One advantage besides those named might be that it should work in an antimagic field whereas spells don't...
It certainly is not a powerful ability, but at least it offers you a generic solution when you don't know what kind of defenses your opponent has (e.g. you tried fire and it's immune, second round you tried acid and it still doesn't help, and you cannot afford to potentially waste a third round 'cause your teammates are dropping...).
One advantage besides those named might be that it should work in an antimagic field whereas spells don't...
Actually supernatural abilities are stopped by anti-magic fields. Extraordinary abilities are the ones that still function.
The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.
One advantage besides those named might be that it should work in an antimagic field whereas spells don't...
It certainly is not a powerful ability, but at least it offers you a generic solution when you don't know what kind of defenses your opponent has (e.g. you tried fire and it's immune, second round you tried acid and it still doesn't help, and you cannot afford to potentially waste a third round 'cause your teammates are dropping...).
And then your (2+lvl)d6 damage isn't enough to make a difference and your teammates continue to drop...
Also, arcane blast is a supernatural ability, so it doesn't work in an antimagic field.
You're right, it does not work in it. Misremembered :-)
That's what i thought too, concerning scorching ray and sneak attack, but after searching a lot around here, i found out that (james jacobs i think) clarified that sneak attack damage is applied only once on spells, even if you direct the rays (on scorching ray's occasion) at different targets. Only one ray gets the sneak attack boost.I would want to see a link to that, as far as I was aware it was an issue that remained undecided and so subject to table variation.
3rd page, and it was actually the pathfinder design team.
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I think Arcane blast is there for Witches to turn them into a 3.5 warlock. They have full casting, so more uses than a Summoner/Bard and very little blasting options. With Hexes filling the flavor of invocations and the freedom to cast real spells if you want, you have a set of abilities that has a close feel to the Warlock.
I think Arcane blast is there for Witches to turn them into a 3.5 warlock.
Well, it would work that way, but only if arcane blast was free, didn't canabalize spell slots so it would have unlimited use, could be customized to be more useful and have extra uses, and had better scaling so to keep up with the world. The witch wishes he were a warlock. That's without mentioning how many invocations are just flat out better or more flavorful than hexes.
Also, Arcane Blast. Since no one linked it yet.
Arcane Blast is a great option, though not for the reasons people often like. It ignores DR, bypasses SR, doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, doesn't have an energy type to be resisted, can't be reduced with a save, and so on.
The reason it is often considered a "trap" is because everyone focuses on the bad things about it, namely it's low damage and high resource costs. If it didn't have those to balance it out, it would be extremely broken.
I wouldn't rely on it for my bread and butter, but if I am having trouble with one or more of the problems mentioned above and still need to do some damage, it could prove to be invaluable.
Arcane Blast is a great option, though not for the reasons people often like. It ignores DR, bypasses SR, doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, doesn't have an energy type to be resisted, can't be reduced with a save, and so on.
The reason it is often considered a "trap" is because everyone focuses on the bad things about it, namely it's low damage and high resource costs. If it didn't have those to balance it out, it would be extremely broken.
I wouldn't rely on it for my bread and butter, but if I am having trouble with one or more of the problems mentioned above and still need to do some damage, it could prove to be invaluable.
True, very true. Although i think the "ranged attack" part of arcane blast would provoke an AoO, wouldn't it?
Also, by adding SA damage to it (via arcane trickster) and maybe a feat or 2, you can up the damage quite a bit. A first level slot doing about 10d6 dmg (non resistant) isn't that bad. You could possibly add a few rogue talents in there too(bleed etc).
I believe that lower spell slots make better use of the feat.
I'd agree with you Dork if not for the fact that stopping blasting at that point and buffing your allies instead is a vastly better option than using your remaining spell slots to deal very little damage.
But what do you do once they are already buffed (by your or someone else)?
Perhaps you use Arcane Blast. :P
I'd agree with you Dork if not for the fact that stopping blasting at that point and buffing your allies instead is a vastly better option than using your remaining spell slots to deal very little damage.But what do you do once they are already buffed (by your or someone else)?
Perhaps you use Arcane Blast. :P
Beats a crossbow, unless you think you have a better use for those spell slots.
I hope I'm not the only one with a sudden urge to play a warlock.
But what do you do once they are already buffed (by your or someone else)?
Summon something? Battlefield control? If I'm spending a spell slot anyway, I might as well do something useful with my action. If arcane blast didn't require throwing away a feat on it, I'd still probably never use it.
Summoned creatures typically are too weak to function as little more than fodder. Battlefield control often gets in the way of your allies' actions (negating the aforementioned buffs you placed on them). Sometimes, the best thing you can do IS precision blasting. The only problem with blasting is all the defenses normally arrayed against it--something that Arcane Blast completely ignores.
I'm not saying it's the best option, not by a long shot, but it's not a trap. It has its place.
Well, I think I'll start working on a "blaster-master". I'll try the whole bard thing (although since it relies on spell level the damage might be a bit low). I'll call it blaster McGee.
Summoned creatures typically are too weak to function as little more than fodder. Battlefield control often gets in the way of your allies' actions (negating the aforementioned buffs you placed on them). Sometimes, the best thing you can do IS precision blasting. The only problem with blasting is all the defenses normally arrayed against it--something that Arcane Blast completely ignores.
I'm not saying it's the best option, not by a long shot, but it's not a trap. It has its place.
Let's say the party is 11th level. I just picked up arcane blast as a new feat for my wizard and I'm itching to try it out. The party gets into a fight with a couple of coloxus demons. They have SR, immunity or resistance to a bunch of elements, DR, and pretty good saves for their level. Unfortunately, their touch AC is pretty high, so my arcane blast might miss. The most damage I could do with arcane blast is 8d6 (average 28) if I blow a 6th level spell slot on it. A coloxus has 168 hp. 28 damage isn't very much. And I'd have to get within 30 feet of it.
Alternatively, with that 6th level spell slot, I could have summoned 1d3 bralanis. Sure, 1d6+8 from their scimitars isn't as much as my arcane blast, but it does bypass the coloxuses' DR. It only takes 3 hits to outdamage the arcane blast. And any attack they take is one not directed towards me or my allies.
Or I could spend a 4th level slot on a persistent glitterdust. Each coloxus has about an 80% chance of becoming blinded. Even if they aren't blinded, it will help against their invisibility.
Ok, this is what i've got. Not quite perfect, but I've been trying to make an arcane duelist for a while.
Race: human
Class: bard, arcane duelist
Stats (25 pts)
Str: 11 Dex: 17 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 12 Cha: 16
Trait: fate's favored, maestro of the society
1 Weapon Finesse, Arcane Strike
2
3 Lingering performance
4
5 Deadly Dealer
6
7 Pirhanna Strike
8
9 Celestial obidience (planning archea, interested in other ideas)
10
11 Arcane Blast
12
13 Improved crit (?)
...
Not sure what to use as the main weapon.
I think it would be a decent build. Then again, arcane blast is very secondary.
Like RD said, Arcane Blast is a great trick for a battlefield control wizard/sorcerer, an enchanter wizard/sorcerer, or a wizard/sorcerer who regularly prepares a lot of situational spells. If you are a dedicated blaster, you probably don't want Arcane Blast, but if you aren't a dedicated blaster, Arcane Blast lets you pick up some slack if the spells you chose aren't pulling their weight.
For example, finding yourself in a crypt of undead as an enchanter.
...Arcane Blast lets you pick up some slack if the spells you chose aren't pulling their weight.
For example, finding yourself in a crypt of undead as an enchanter.
Exactly.
You can still use arcane blast when you can not use verbal, somatic or material components. (polymorphed, grappled, silenced etc.)
You can still use it when concentration checks are impossible to make.
It can not be counter spelled.
It can often still function in places where magic is unpredictable.
It ignores SR, and can be used to directly damage golems for example.
It can not be disrupted by damage.
Ignores DR, Evasion and energy resistances.
Exactly....Arcane Blast lets you pick up some slack if the spells you chose aren't pulling their weight.
For example, finding yourself in a crypt of undead as an enchanter.
Or if said wizard banned the school with his favorite blast-spells. Burning one slot to do Arcane Blast might be better than burning two slots for that one blast spell.
It's another tool in the box. (:
You can still use arcane blast when you can not use verbal, somatic or material components. (polymorphed, grappled, silenced etc.)
You can still use it when concentration checks are impossible to make.
It can not be counter spelled.
It can often still function in places where magic is unpredictable.
It ignores SR, and can be used to directly damage golems for example.
It can not be disrupted by damage.
Ignores DR, Evasion and energy resistances.
And it's an attack roll. So it can score a critical hit, right?
On a 20 sure
If you are an eldrith knight you might even squeeze in a few critical feats xD
Something I allow is the use of cantrips with it. I know it says otherwise but I have yet to find it game breaking especially at the level you have to be to take it.
Something I allow is the use of cantrips with it. I know it says otherwise but I have yet to find it game breaking especially at the level you have to be to take it.
Not a bad idea, considering it's a mere 2d6, piddling even at 10th level.
You can still use arcane blast when you can not use verbal, somatic or material components. (polymorphed, grappled, silenced etc.)
You can still use it when concentration checks are impossible to make.
It can not be counter spelled.
It can often still function in places where magic is unpredictable.
It ignores SR, and can be used to directly damage golems for example.
It can not be disrupted by damage.
Ignores DR, Evasion and energy resistances.
Great points all.
As I said, there is a lot to like about it.
I find it handy for enchanter-bards who need to suddenly do damage.
I also have a fighter/sorcerer/eldritch knight in PFS who I'm considering it for. He uses Still Spell, which means his first level slots have a 25% Arcane Spell Failure chance and are underutilized anyway - I feed them into a Ring of Spell Storing for Shield spells when needed.
As an Eldritch Knight, I'm rocking a +8 BAB, and have Arcane Strike, and the Gloves of Arcane Striking, as well as Point Blank Shot. Sadly, Deadly Aim (which I don't have) and Vital Strike (which I do have) don't work with Arcane Blast. (There's a fuzzy area that says they might work with Arcane Blast, but it's PFS and subject to table variation, so I ask, and assume the GM will say "Naaah..." -- if the answer is "sure", I'll enjoy it.)
So, for a first level spell slot, I'm hitting at +11 versus touch, for 3d6+4 damage, and doing 3 damage to every target adjacent, with untyped magical energy damage. This is about a point off of Magic Missile's average damage...and this character doesn't know Magic Missile anyway.
A no-fail-chance Scorching Ray does 3 shots of 4d6+4 damage under those circumstances...but is a third level spell, suffers from SR and fire resistance is pretty common.