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I'm in a slight tiff with my GM and some of my party members where I bought a bottle of Whiskey, and in one npc encounter decided to give a glass to said npc.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
I am on the side of it not being consumed entirely but handled like charges in a wand. (Peliminary google search finds the average bottle of whiskey to be 25oz and a whiskey glass being 2oz). Cork as a stopper has been invented since 3000BC, so I don't see why it should even be used as an excuse.
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns? Are there any official ruling on this matter?
Feedback and answers are much appreciated.
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I'm in a slight tiff with my GM and some of my party members where I bought a bottle of Whiskey, and in one npc encounter decided to give a glass to said npc.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
I am on the side of it not being consumed entirely but handled like charges in a wand. (Peliminary google search finds the average bottle of whiskey to be 25oz and a whiskey glass being 2oz). Cork as a stopper has been invented since 3000BC, so I don't see why it should even be used as an excuse.
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns? Are there any official ruling on this matter?
Feedback and answers are much appreciated.
Given the technological level, I suspect it was sealed with a cork in the first place. Assuming you didn't destroy the cork, you can just re-cork the bottle. I checked a web-site with info about whiskey storage and here's an excerpt:
"An opened bottle of whisky (stored away from light) with more than two-thirds of its contents remaining can be expected to remain unchanged for about one year. After that, oxygen begins to work its destructive magic and effectively rusts your whisky. ... Luckily, the process is slow, so an inch of headspace will not be detectable by your taste buds for a year or so. If 75% of the bottle is air, though, you’ll probably notice a degradation in quality after as little as a month." (check out "The Scotch Noob")
As for "Consumption", your GM will have to determine what amount needs to be consumed to get a mechanical bonus. If you're literally giving a glass to an NPC, then fine, you gave one glass - good roleplaying, but no mechanical bonus. If you're going for a +2 circumstance bonus on a diplomacy check to gather info, the GM can rule that it takes the two of you drinking the whole bottle around the campfire.
...there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
Wow. Better drink up immediately after filling your waterskin.
Realistically, in a low-technology setting you're going to have a huge degree of improvisation that we don't have in modern times. A bottle of drink would be so relatively rare and expensive that folks would have massive incentive to find ways to preserve it. Those ways wouldn't be as effective as modern methods, but they would exist.
As has been mentioned, re-using the cork is obvious. Wax caps another. Pouring the remains into a waterskin yet another if you DM accepts that somehow those magically retain fluids in a cap-less society.
I'd try pointing out that waste is a modern thing, mostly. Sure, the kings and queens of the past might be willing to throw away dregs, but the common folk... no.
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Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
This kind of phrase always disturbs me. At what time?
4712 AR?-147 PvR?
1066 mooncycles after Göllenköllen?
This is not earth, and technology shouldn't automatically advance at the same pace as on earth.
Maybe screwcaps were invented by Runelord Karzoug 10.000 years ago, because he didn't want to drink his Quiskey all at once.
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As for "Consumption", your GM will have to determine what amount needs to be consumed to get a mechanical bonus. If you're literally giving a glass to an NPC, then fine, you gave one glass - good roleplaying, but no mechanical bonus. If you're going for a +2 circumstance bonus on a diplomacy check to gather info, the GM can rule that it takes the two of you drinking the whole bottle around the campfire.
Only if the GM is a total non-drinker, or if Golarion whiskey is entirely different from the stuff at my place.
A bottle of whiskey between two people is not a masterwork diplomacy tool. It's a sleep spell. Possibly immediately preceded by a vomit swarm spell on one or both person's part.
The medics tell me that a typical adult male will start vomiting at about six drinks, which would fit into a coffee cup.
One word..CORK.
That is all.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
Wait, what does he think was on it to begin with, that holds it closed but is impossible to replace?
Before disposable caps, according to Wikipedia, bottles were commonly stoppered with cork, oil cloth, glass stoppers, and I stopped looking at that point. But all of those are easily replaceable.
If anything, it seems like bottle caps that cannot be replaced are the thing that might not have been invented yet.
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It all depends on whiskey.
As we all know, the cr@p stuff remains in the bottle for years, whereas the good stuff rarely lasts the night!
In groups I've been in, bookkeeping consumption of food and drink has been almost always glossed over. Its just not worth the hassle.
Considering it was a mundane item used solely to add to the enjoyment of a role-playing encounter, I would say your GM is being unnecessarily harsh. And yes, why wouldn't you simply replace the cork, or is he assuming its sealed with wax or something? I have known some people who really enjoy playing characters who overspend on fine meals, and some who really, really enjoy describing the fine meals. It makes the game a little more fun for them. There's no absolutely mechanical benefit.
This thread is hilarious, especially considering the fact it's in the rules questions section.
Well, d20pfsrd has an entry for a bottle (sourced to Ultimate Equipment) which says that a bottle holds about a pint and includes a cork, so make of that what you will. Maybe your GM is picturing airline bottles?
I think your GM just doesn't like you.
I think your GM just doesn't like you.
Try bribing him with a dram of whisky.
Sounds like the GM is treating the bottle of whiskey like a potion--one time use. Unfortunately there's no real mechanics you can apply here. As previously mentioned the UE has a listing for a bottle that shows it holds about a pint and includes a cork. If you were doling out the entire pint in one sitting that'd be an awfully generous "glass." Again, though, this sort of thing isn't covered by any rules, except for the universal "don't be a d!ck" rule. Were I running the campaign I'd let you have several glasses out of a bottle of whiskey and unstop and restop the bottle as you please. However, I'm not running the campaign, and sometimes it's easier to let the GM win these little battles, because it will only make things worse trying to fight them.
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Is this a cave man game? Oh wait, even cave men had the whole transport of fluids thing down.
Yeah, your GM needs to grow as a person. Maybe you can help them with that, but I doubt that "the forums called you a d*cK" will help your situation any.
If this guy's your friend, it's time for a constructive chat. If he's not your friend WHY ARE YOU PLAYING WITH HIM?!
How could an assassin or ninja 'use poison' to a bottle of whiskey and not be able to cork it again...?
Lids on ceramic beaker jars for holding mead existed at the start of the Iron Age (1000 BC) and that's not the oldest alcoholic beverage container that came with lids, but one I know at the top of my head.
Assuming a shot of whiskey is 2 ounces, and the bottle holds 1 pint--16 ounces--and giving the NPC, say, a minute to drink his "shot," that is the one cup given, this online BAC calculator puts a 180-pound male's BAC at .18, which is pretty high. Even if we give him an hour, that's .164.
So, yeah. I'm not a doctor, but that's not good.
Assuming a shot of whiskey is 2 ounces, and the bottle holds 1 pint--16 ounces--and giving the NPC, say, a minute to drink his "shot," that is the one cup given, this online BAC calculator puts a 180-pound male's BAC at .18, which is pretty high. Even if we give him an hour, that's .164.
A shot of whiskey is closer to 1.25 or 1.5 ounces.
Assuming a shot of whiskey is 2 ounces, and the bottle holds 1 pint--16 ounces--and giving the NPC, say, a minute to drink his "shot," that is the one cup given, this online BAC calculator puts a 180-pound male's BAC at .18, which is pretty high. Even if we give him an hour, that's .164.A shot of whiskey is closer to 1.25 or 1.5 ounces.
Ah! In that case it's anywhere from .231 to .293. Huzzah!
Fun fact: The most dangerous poison in Golarion is actually RUM.
1d3 con damage, no save? Deadly!
Citation please?
Citation please?Fun fact: The most dangerous poison in Golarion is actually RUM.
1d3 con damage, no save? Deadly!
I think that's the drinking rules from the first book of the Skull and Shackles adventure path.
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Citation please?Fun fact: The most dangerous poison in Golarion is actually RUM.
1d3 con damage, no save? Deadly!
Aboard many ships, half a pint of rum is distributed to each crew member at dusk. The rum is staggeringly strong, and is often watered down to make grog. Characters drinking the ration are affected as though they had taken an addictive drug (see page 236 of the GameMastery Guide for details on drugs and addiction). The rum ration is doled out more to keep the crew sated and docile than for recreation. The penalty for selling or spilling the ration is six lashes, or six lashes from a cat-o’-nine-tails for a second offense. Deliberately tipping away rum on board a crowded ship without being seen requires a DC 10 Stealth check. While on merchant or navy vessels rum rations are strictly limited, on pirate ships, crew members can often request more rum if they please.
Shackles Rum Ration
Type ingested; Addiction minor, Fortitude DC 5 Price 2 spEffect variable; +1d4 alchemical bonus to Charisma and
fatigued for 1d8 hours Damage 1d3 Con
I had to start handwaving the Rum Ration in my S&S game because only one guy had stealth, and I didn't want a near TPK from rum related death.
Note the "Fort DC 5" is only for ADDICTION, not to avoid the Con damage and Fatigue.
????? The mind boggles.
There are perfume bottles in the game are there not? So how are they kept after the first dab is used..yes a simple stopper..It can't be that hard to imagine a stopper of some description is used to re-cork a bottle of whiskey can it? A world that can create clockwork wonders and has andriods but can't seem to grasp the consept of ways in which to keep food and drink fresh once opened? Give me a break!
1: Its a fantasy game not real life so you can't stick an earth parallel on to a fantasy world where androids and robots exist.
2: GM just needs to relax a bit...its just a bottle of whiskey not a potion of healing or anything..
Glad I'm not playing with that GM.
You don't need a rule to cover it just some damn common sense.
Jeez
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No I get it. Open a bottle, the entire thing is consumed. I've had those nights. ;)
Citation please?Fun fact: The most dangerous poison in Golarion is actually RUM.
1d3 con damage, no save? Deadly!
Aboard many ships, half a pint of rum is distributed to each crew member at dusk. The rum is staggeringly strong, and is often watered down to make grog. Characters drinking the ration are affected as though they had taken an addictive drug (see page 236 of the GameMastery Guide for details on drugs and addiction). The rum ration is doled out more to keep the crew sated and docile than for recreation. The penalty for selling or spilling the ration is six lashes, or six lashes from a cat-o’-nine-tails for a second offense. Deliberately tipping away rum on board a crowded ship without being seen requires a DC 10 Stealth check. While on merchant or navy vessels rum rations are strictly limited, on pirate ships, crew members can often request more rum if they please.
Shackles Rum Ration
Type ingested; Addiction minor, Fortitude DC 5 Price 2 spEffect variable; +1d4 alchemical bonus to Charisma and
fatigued for 1d8 hours Damage 1d3 ConI had to start handwaving the Rum Ration in my S&S game because only one guy had stealth, and I didn't want a near TPK from rum related death.
Note the "Fort DC 5" is only for ADDICTION, not to avoid the Con damage and Fatigue.
That must be why rum isn't listed under Food and Drink, of course I don't see it listed under Poisons, or Drugs either... Perhaps this powerful poison is only available aboard ships, and is otherwise vacant on land?
My first thought was that this should be under the Advice section when I read the thread tittle. My immediate reaction, was "of course it should be consumed, what else would you do with it?" Then I realized that it was a game mechanic questions and I still got a good laugh at the responses.
For a rules lawyer answer it is simply, there are no rules that cover this. It is not like a potion that is consumed. Of course I have to hope that vials of potions only hold 1 ounce as it says under vials or else I know a lot of parties that would be urinating Cure Light Wounds half the day.
I would say that a bottle says it holds about a pint and a vial holds an ounce. Assuming that one portion is an ounce (regardless of the real world findings), that would mean a bottle of whiskey or wine would hold about sixteen 1 ounce servings. That sounds about right to me in and out of the game so I would recommend that. Both the bottle and the vial can be found on the PRD.
Good luck!
This thread is hilarious, especially considering the fact it's in the rules questions section.
Fer Realz. My first though upon reading the thread title was "If that's your group's biggest problem, can I play in that game?"
Second thought: "If it's a problem at all, I'd rather not." ;)
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To seriously answer this question, there are no real rules on the consumption of mundane food and liquid. We expect (maybe wrongly...but I hope not) that common sense will reign when it comes to the more mundane aspects of a character's life. I have no interest in writing Ultimate Bodily Functions and Physical Upkeep (with an Appendix on Proper Food and Liquid Storage).
There are rules for addiction and and drunkenness in the GameMastery Guide, but those will do little to help your situation, other than giving gp for doses of dwarven fire ale and elven absinthe (both very expensive liquors).
To be honest, I think your GM is being a tad...well..difficult. Corks and other stoppers have been used since prehistory, ask any water or wineskin. But, the GM is the final arbiter of your game, so there is that.
The whole bottle consumed? Do you... Do you drink the bottle?
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns?
Usually small cost like this aren't something I care if you keep track of or not. Its usually just added narrative anyway.
I'm in a slight tiff with my GM and some of my party members where I bought a bottle of Whiskey, and in one npc encounter decided to give a glass to said npc.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
I am on the side of it not being consumed entirely but handled like charges in a wand. (Peliminary google search finds the average bottle of whiskey to be 25oz and a whiskey glass being 2oz). Cork as a stopper has been invented since 3000BC, so I don't see why it should even be used as an excuse.
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns? Are there any official ruling on this matter?
Feedback and answers are much appreciated.
On rereading this, can I ask, did sharing the whiskey have any mechanical effect on the encounter? I'm only asking because the phrase "handled like charges in a wand" makes me wonder, and I can't see a GM even caring unless there was something like that going on. At my own table I would treat the libations as role playing, with little no effect on rolls. ("The orc quaffs your peace offering, and enthusiastically begins to whack you with his greataxe, because that's how orcs are.")
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I find all your response very extremely funny.... Did you even ask him what game is he playing in before commenting about the gm? I was one of the player in that game. It was not a homebrew but a pfs game. Who is going to help him keep track of how many glasses is drunk.. When he enter another pfs game under another gm... Is it still half bottle? Whos going to know how much is left? I really had a great laugh at ur comments. Thanks..
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As for "Consumption", your GM will have to determine what amount needs to be consumed to get a mechanical bonus. If you're literally giving a glass to an NPC, then fine, you gave one glass - good roleplaying, but no mechanical bonus. If you're going for a +2 circumstance bonus on a diplomacy check to gather info, the GM can rule that it takes the two of you drinking the whole bottle around the campfire.Only if the GM is a total non-drinker, or if Golarion whiskey is entirely different from the stuff at my place.
A bottle of whiskey between two people is not a masterwork diplomacy tool. It's a sleep spell. Possibly immediately preceded by a vomit swarm spell on one or both person's part.
The medics tell me that a typical adult male will start vomiting at about six drinks, which would fit into a coffee cup.
Thank you for your enlightening answer. I am a total non-drinker.
However, you seem to miss the point. Leaving aside the stupid cork issue, it's within the GM's mandate to adjudicate the use of the whiskey. We don't have hard stats on how large a "bottle" of whiskey is, whether their bellies were empty when they drank, how long the drinking session lasted (a minute?, an hour? all night?), etc. Also, GM's should try to act reasonably, but they don't know everything. The GM just has to make a call and if he's giving the player a circumstance bonus for using the whiskey, it's reasonable for the GM to declare the whiskey was used up. On the other hand, I think most people (myself included) don't feel it's reasonable for a GM to declare the whiskey was used up because you can't re-cork the bottle.
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I find all your response very extremely funny.... Did you even ask him what game is he playing in before commenting about the gm? I was one of the player in that game. It was not a homebrew but a pfs game. Who is going to help him keep track of how many glasses is drunk.. When he enter another pfs game under another gm... Is it still half bottle? Whos going to know how much is left? I really had a great laugh at ur comments. Thanks..
I am happy for you that you are so easily amused. You must find a great deal of joy in life.
On rereading this, can I ask, did sharing the whiskey have any mechanical effect on the encounter? I'm only asking because the phrase "handled like charges in a wand" makes me wonder, and I can't see a GM even caring unless there was something like that going on. At my own table I would treat the libations as role playing, with little no effect on rolls.
Well, I've been in a number of campaigns where there were specific drinks that did have specific social effects. We had one bottle of thousand-year-old elf brandy (or whatever) that would sometimes be brought out for "discerning company," with the concomittant bonus to any social roles. It's a great way of letting the Duke of Earl feel just how special you think he is.
Any situation where the drink would be hard to replace, either because of rarity or situation (we're on a lifeboat and we only have two cases of beer to last us all the way to shore), it would make sense to track charges.
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On rereading this, can I ask, did sharing the whiskey have any mechanical effect on the encounter? I'm only asking because the phrase "handled like charges in a wand" makes me wonder, and I can't see a GM even caring unless there was something like that going on. At my own table I would treat the libations as role playing, with little no effect on rolls. ("The orc quaffs your peace offering, and enthusiastically begins to whack you with his greataxe, because that's how orcs are.")I'm in a slight tiff with my GM and some of my party members where I bought a bottle of Whiskey, and in one npc encounter decided to give a glass to said npc.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
I am on the side of it not being consumed entirely but handled like charges in a wand. (Peliminary google search finds the average bottle of whiskey to be 25oz and a whiskey glass being 2oz). Cork as a stopper has been invented since 3000BC, so I don't see why it should even be used as an excuse.
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns? Are there any official ruling on this matter?
Feedback and answers are much appreciated.
Well, I was asking if I could get a +1 circumstance bonus. This was for the first steps module where
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I find all your response very extremely funny.... Did you even ask him what game is he playing in before commenting about the gm? I was one of the player in that game. It was not a homebrew but a pfs game. Who is going to help him keep track of how many glasses is drunk.. When he enter another pfs game under another gm... Is it still half bottle? Whos going to know how much is left? I really had a great laugh at ur comments. Thanks..
We could treat it as this module only item and it disappears at the end of the module. Like I said about treating it as having charges, then its easy to keep track of. I could even use an inventory tracking sheet and go to our GM and get his signature for every single glass drunk.
There are ways to handle this, your complete disregard of alternatives is the laughable one.
Can we move this to "Advice"? Seems like that would solve the problem.
And to address the OP, yes, that's what whiskey is for.
Well, I was asking if I could get a +1 circumstance bonus. This was for the first steps module where ** spoiler omitted **. So me wanting it to be handled as charges for that effect would be logical.On rereading this, can I ask, did sharing the whiskey have any mechanical effect on the encounter? I'm only asking because the phrase "handled like charges in a wand" makes me wonder, and I can't see a GM even caring unless there was something like that going on. At my own table I would treat the libations as role playing, with little no effect on rolls. ("The orc quaffs your peace offering, and enthusiastically begins to whack you with his greataxe, because that's how orcs are.")I'm in a slight tiff with my GM and some of my party members where I bought a bottle of Whiskey, and in one npc encounter decided to give a glass to said npc.
My gm ruled it as the entire bottle is "consumed", effectively making me lose the entire bottle of whiskey. Citing that there were no bottle caps invented at that time.
I am on the side of it not being consumed entirely but handled like charges in a wand. (Peliminary google search finds the average bottle of whiskey to be 25oz and a whiskey glass being 2oz). Cork as a stopper has been invented since 3000BC, so I don't see why it should even be used as an excuse.
My question now is, how do you handle food and drink consumption in your campaigns? Are there any official ruling on this matter?
Feedback and answers are much appreciated.
So your GM gave you the bonus as a recognition of your improv skills, but said you'd have to spend masterwork tool (+2 bonus/50gp) money to do it on a regular basis?
@Orf, I don't disagree about the effect of fancy drinks in social encounters, but if you want a bonus to your diplomacy roll, there are rules for that, right?
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I have no interest in writing Ultimate Bodily Functions and Physical Upkeep (with an Appendix on Proper Food and Liquid Storage).
Oh! Please? PLEEEEAAAASE?!?
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We expect (maybe wrongly...but I hope not) that common sense will reign...
I have bad news, mate...
/Looks around at empty whiskey, wine, and Starbucks frappuccino bottles
Yes.