I want to give my groups healer a ring that boosts his healing, by making either all 1s into 2s or maybe all 1s&2s into 3s when he rolls his healing dice. I am having trouble finding a way to put a value on this though, and I want to make sure I'm not giving him something more powerful than the rest of the group is getting. anyone have an idea of how i could figure out what value this magic item would be?
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That amounts to +1/6 point of healing per die for a channel and +1/8 healing per die for a cure spell if a 1 becomes a 2 (lesser), or +3/6 and +3/8 if 1s and 2s become 3s (greater).
It's a bit tricky to figure out how much healing that will be because it gets more useful as the healer gets more powerful, but let's look at the phylactery.
The average increase from a phylactery of positive channeling is +7. That would require 42 (lesser) or 14 (greater) dice of healing for a channel. Your item is never going to add as much healing as the phylactery because channel tops off at 10 dice. The phylactery also improves channeling to harm undead, so that's a small plus.
The phylactery doesn't affect cure spells, so it's less useful in that respect, but the phylactery is still clearly superior because it will take 56 / 18 dice of healing from cure spells to match the amount of healing the phylactery adds to a single channel. For the lesser version, that's negligible in comparison, and for the greater it would take a high level healer to have enough dice of healing available to catch up.
I'd price the "1s to 2s" version at no more than half the value of the phylactery, and probably more like 2000-3000gp. The 1s and 2s to 3s version is probably worth a little more than half the phylactery, or about 7000gp.
I think the mechanic you are using is a little clunky, and personally, I would not be happy with that ability in a magic item. It only benefits me if I roll poorly :/, it leaves me feeling meh. It would be something I would replace *as soon* as I found something else to take that slot, and since it is the ring slot (which is in high demand anyway) that would be really quick.
I would suggest an item which adds +1 to each healing dice rolled. This mechanic is simpler to implement and it is worthy of a slotted item. If I were a healer I would be happy to keep this item until at least 11th level (When heal comes into play) and likely a few levels beyond.
I would price it somewhere around 7,000-10,000gp.
It only benefits me if I roll poorly :/
Do you refuse to buy magical weapons, since enhancement bonuses are wasted money, as their bonus to hit only applies if you roll poorly and don't get all natural 20s? Why, even their bonus to damage is only useful if you don't roll maximum damage on your crit and overkill the mob anyway. Surely you only use x4 crit weapons.
Now, to use actual logic, the only people who are interested in an item that improves healing are people who heal often; this is axiomatic. People who heal often will eventually roll 1s and 2s on separate die, as these occur one-fourth of the time on a d8, which is what cure spells use; this is axiomatic. Without this item, a cure spell on average heals 4.5+CL HP per die, not rounded down as a result of 4.5 will never actually occur ingame. With this item, the possible results become 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. The average of these numbers is 4.875, meaning that this item would provide a benefit of an extra .375 hit points per die of the spell used.
By the time 7k can comfortable by spent on a ring, the character will likely have access to, say, cure critical wounds, which heals 4d8+CL. The ring would provide a benefit of 1.5 hit points on average under optimal circumstances.
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I like it because it provides insurance against poor rolls. It's like abilities that let you re-roll a natural 1, though less strong. It sucks to need to heal your tank pronto and have your Cure Serious or Cure Critical come up all 1s and 2s. Even worse with channel where you don't have a nice stable +caster level to rely on.
That was my thought weirdo. It was inspired by the power and deadly sneak abilities. They are still low level so I'm not looking to give them anything crazy. just something to make his healing a little more consistant. Thanks for all the input guys, i think i have a good idea of the value now.
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Deadly sneak also comes with a penalty and is a rogue talent, which is somewhat thought as more powerful than a feat. Arguments that the attack penalty makes deadly sneak a trap feat for a rogue aside, generally making a magic item that is like a class ability is often discouraged or just plain denied by GMs.
However, there are a couple of items out there like this, so here would be my ruling:
Lesser headband of healing. CL 8th mod necromancy
Slot headband. Price 8,000 Weight 1lb.
All rolls of 1 become 2 when channeling or using a cure wounds spell.
Requirements. Craft Wondrous Item. Creator must be an 8th level Cleric, cost 4,000gp
Greater headband of healing. CL 12th mod necromancy
Slot headband. Price 20,000 Weight 1lb.
All rolls of 1 or 2 becomes 3 when channeling or using a cure wounds spell.
Requirements. Craft Wondrous Item. Creator must be an 12th level Cleric, cost 10,000gp
I think that is balanced with similar items like Headband of the Ninjitsu, Sniper Goggles, and the aforementioned phylactery.
Deadly sneak also comes with a penalty and is a rogue talent, which is somewhat thought as more powerful than a feat.
Not wanting to go too off in a tangent, but one of the problems that I've often seen in rogue threads is that this really isn't the case, and that not only is the combat trick frequently the first rogue talent taken, but were it not against the rules to take it multiple times, it would make up the majority of rogue talents taken over a rogue's career, simply because what you get out of it tops what you get from other talents. Or put another way, while feats like extra Revelation or Extra Rage power are frequently taken, sometimes multiple times, by oracles and Barbarians, Extra Rogue Talent is almost never taken, because there's usually a better option as a feat.
consider this- rather than making this magic item, institute some kind of 'blessing' mechanic where players can get a (minor) benefit that is temporary and takes up no slot... this way you could either give the healer a blessing where he gets to count 1s as 2s on heals, or give the other players one that lets them count 1s as 2s when they receive heals. either way you don't really need to worry about the cost, the party won't be concerned that he's 'getting more loot' (because they'll either be the ones with the blessing, or they'll have the promise/hope of getting their own blessing too), and you can institute a financial or roleplaying cost to get/maintain the benefit (perhaps its a saint or demi-god that grants the blessing and you have to revere it to benefit, which could include making offerings and/or observing some kind of code of behavior...)
just a thought- could make for an interesting/memorable aspect of that particular campaign? (just be careful not to grant any blessings that are too powerful, unless maybe they're very temporary and have a steep cost)
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Deadly sneak also comes with a penalty and is a rogue talent, which is somewhat thought as more powerful than a feat.Not wanting to go too off in a tangent, but one of the problems that I've often seen in rogue threads is that this really isn't the case, and that not only is the combat trick frequently the first rogue talent taken, but were it not against the rules to take it multiple times, it would make up the majority of rogue talents taken over a rogue's career, simply because what you get out of it tops what you get from other talents. Or put another way, while feats like extra Revelation or Extra Rage power are frequently taken, sometimes multiple times, by oracles and Barbarians, Extra Rogue Talent is almost never taken, because there's usually a better option as a feat.
It may be worth taking after 10 levels of rogue because the extra rogue talent would be an advanced rogue talent instead. They are almost always good to take.
It may be worth taking after 10 levels of rogue because the extra rogue talent would be an advanced rogue talent instead. They are almost always good to take.Deadly sneak also comes with a penalty and is a rogue talent, which is somewhat thought as more powerful than a feat.Not wanting to go too off in a tangent, but one of the problems that I've often seen in rogue threads is that this really isn't the case, and that not only is the combat trick frequently the first rogue talent taken, but were it not against the rules to take it multiple times, it would make up the majority of rogue talents taken over a rogue's career, simply because what you get out of it tops what you get from other talents. Or put another way, while feats like extra Revelation or Extra Rage power are frequently taken, sometimes multiple times, by oracles and Barbarians, Extra Rogue Talent is almost never taken, because there's usually a better option as a feat.
Ok, you got me there; My games tend to not last much longer than that anyway, so I don't have much experience with those.
It only benefits me if I roll poorly :/Do you refuse to buy magical weapons, since enhancement bonuses are wasted money, as their bonus to hit only applies if you roll poorly and don't get all natural 20s? Why, even their bonus to damage is only useful if you don't roll maximum damage on your crit and overkill the mob anyway. Surely you only use x4 crit weapons.
Now, to use actual logic, the only people who are interested in an item that improves healing are people who heal often; this is axiomatic. People who heal often will eventually roll 1s and 2s on separate die, as these occur one-fourth of the time on a d8, which is what cure spells use; this is axiomatic. Without this item, a cure spell on average heals 4.5+CL HP per die, not rounded down as a result of 4.5 will never actually occur ingame. With this item, the possible results become 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. The average of these numbers is 4.875, meaning that this item would provide a benefit of an extra .375 hit points per die of the spell used.
By the time 7k can comfortable by spent on a ring, the character will likely have access to, say, cure critical wounds, which heals 4d8+CL. The ring would provide a benefit of 1.5 hit points on average under optimal circumstances.
If +2 weapon only gave me a +2 when I rolled a 1 then I would definitely find other things to spend gold on.
yes but it wouldn't be a +2 weapon then would it? where you are placing the value of what you recommended at 7-10,000. I am placing the value at what I'm giving him at like 2,500. obviously something 3x the cost is going to be better. I'm not looking to give him something great, I'm looking to give a low level character a little something.
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Deadly sneak also comes with a penalty and is a rogue talent, which is somewhat thought as more powerful than a feat. Arguments that the attack penalty makes deadly sneak a trap feat for a rogue aside, generally making a magic item that is like a class ability is often discouraged or just plain denied by GMs.
This magic item doesn't duplicate the class ability or fill the same role. Rather, it is inspired by the mechanic of Deadly Sneak but does something completely different.
And as pointed out, only Advanced Rogue Talents are generally more powerful than feats, and Deadly Sneak is not Advanced.
(lesser: 8000gp, greater: 20000gp)
I think that is balanced with similar items like Headband of the Ninjitsu, Sniper Goggles, and the aforementioned phylactery.
It's really not when you look at the actual number of extra points of healing you're expecting to receive from this item vs the phylactery.
However, there are a couple of items out there like this, so here would be my ruling:
Lesser headband of healing. CL 8th mod necromancy
Slot headband. Price 8,000 Weight 1lb.
All rolls of 1 become 2 when channeling or using a cure wounds spell.
Requirements. Craft Wondrous Item. Creator must be an 8th level Cleric, cost 4,000gpGreater headband of healing. CL 12th mod necromancy
Slot headband. Price 20,000 Weight 1lb.
All rolls of 1 or 2 becomes 3 when channeling or using a cure wounds spell.
Requirements. Craft Wondrous Item. Creator must be an 12th level Cleric, cost 10,000gpI think that is balanced with similar items like Headband of the Ninjitsu, Sniper Goggles, and the aforementioned phylactery.
Headband of the Ninjitsu is 15,000 gp and gives attack bonuses.
Phylactery of Positive Channeling is 11,000 gp and gives a flat +2d6 damage undead or heal living on a channel. Average +7.
At 20,000, Sniper Goggles give +2 per d6. They also give other stuff.
Your items give:
1->2 gives +0.167 per d6 or 0.125 per d8. Price 8,000 gp.
1&2->3 gives +0.5 per d6 or 0.375 per d8. Price 20,000 gp.
Effect is not even close.
Sniper goggles are 4 times as powerful as the greater headband, so pro-rating the headband, it should be near 5,000gp. The lesser should be near 1,667gp.
/cevah
and Deadly Sneak is not Advanced.
Actually it is. Powerful Sneak is not.
6k feels about right to me, maybe 2k for the lesser version. It's a small but very useful benefit - extra healing is always nice, and you can count on at least decent healing during combat (when needed). It also stacks with things like Healing domain's ability to empower cure spells.
Couldn't you just give them Maximize Metamagic Rods? No rolls at all, just maxes out the dice values.