Awesome Blow and Agile Maneuvers

[Geflin Graysoul]

I'm looking to make a new character to replace one that recently died to a particularly nasty boss (home brew side quest). Our group needs a melee damage dealer with some battle field control (we already have a tank, ranged, healer, and caster). Since we are in Varisia I decided to try a dex based Monk/Brother of the Seal.

So my questions are...

1) can you take weapon finesse in unarmed? I'm pretty sure this one is yes.

2)(assuming #1 is yes) Do I need agile maneuvers to replace str with dex for Awesome Blow (brother of the seal) or Trip combat maneuvers while unarmed?

Weapon Finesse:

Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.

Awesome Blow:

Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may perform an awesome blow combat maneuver. If the creature's maneuver succeeds against a corporeal opponent smaller than itself, its opponent takes damage (typically slam damage plus Strength bonus) and is knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature's choice and falls prone. The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can't move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in. If an obstacle prevents the completion of the opponent's move, the opponent and the obstacle each take 1d6 points of damage, and the opponent is knocked prone in the space adjacent to the obstacle.

[RainyDayNinja]

1) Yes, unarmed strikes are considered light weapons, so they benefit from Weapon Finesse

2) Weapon Finesse lets you use your Dex mod for combat maneuvers that use weapons. That means trip, disarm, and sunder. Other combat maneuvers such as bull rush or grapple don't use weapons (not even unarmed strikes), so they would require Agile Manuevers to use Dex. You'd have to work out with your GM whether Awesome Blow uses a weapon, but since it involves hitting people and doing damage, I think it's reasonable.

[Geflin Graysoul]

Thanks for the reply, I read the rules the same way but wanted to make sure. I just need to make room for Agile Maneuvers. :)

[Daemonis]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

1) Yes, unarmed strikes are considered light weapons, so they benefit from Weapon Finesse

2) Weapon Finesse lets you use your Dex mod for combat maneuvers that use weapons. That means trip, disarm, and sunder. Other combat maneuvers such as bull rush or grapple don't use weapons (not even unarmed strikes), so they would require Agile Manuevers to use Dex. You'd have to work out with your GM whether Awesome Blow uses a weapon, but since it involves hitting people and doing damage, I think it's reasonable.

2 is actually incorrect. from the PRD:

Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.

Weapon Finesse only uses Dex bonus for Attack rolls, Combat Manuvers still use Str by default. if you wanted to use Dex in any Combat manuvers, you'd still need to get the Agile manuvers Feat.

[Archaeik]

Daemonis wrote:

RainyDayNinja wrote:

1) Yes, unarmed strikes are considered light weapons, so they benefit from Weapon Finesse

2) Weapon Finesse lets you use your Dex mod for combat maneuvers that use weapons. That means trip, disarm, and sunder. Other combat maneuvers such as bull rush or grapple don't use weapons (not even unarmed strikes), so they would require Agile Manuevers to use Dex. You'd have to work out with your GM whether Awesome Blow uses a weapon, but since it involves hitting people and doing damage, I think it's reasonable.

2 is actually incorrect. from the PRD:

Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.

Weapon Finesse only uses Dex bonus for Attack rolls, Combat Manuvers still use Str by default. if you wanted to use Dex in any Combat manuvers, you'd still need to get the Agile manuvers Feat.

FAQ

Maneuvers are attack rolls.

[wraithstrike]

Actually combat maneuvers are attack rolls, and combat maneuvers receive the same bonuses and modifiers as the weapons they are using, so if the weapon can use weapon finesse then it applies to the combat maneuver.

If you wish to use dex based combat manuevers with any weapon then you can use agile maneuvers.

edit: I was ninja'd.

[RainyDayNinja]

See also this blog post.

[Geflin Graysoul]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

See also this blog post.

Okay I finally get it and understand your first post. It seems that Awesome Blow would fall into the same category as Trip but it depends on my GM's ruling. Makes sense.

[Daemonis]

Archaeik wrote:

FAQ

Maneuvers are attack rolls.

Interesting, I did not actually know that. Thanks.