The armor table really bothers me and contains all the same issues as the current game. The heavy bias against heavier armor is infuriating.
If you are going to penalize people for wearing heavy armor then you need to add absorption. Light armor wearers focusing on dex will once again rule the game. Dex to damage...dex to hit...dex to ac...high reflex saves. The one stat to rule them all!
I feel like the developers think heavy armor acts like those sumo suits you see at the fair. The reality is heavy armor ruled the medieval battle fields for a reason...it was better and could absorb hits.
In the end play what you want as long as you enjoy it and the group is supportive.
Evil Aasimar - cool
Friendly Tiefling - neat
Halfling with a soul - interesting
If you need any more proof that non-evil Drow exist look up the Blossoming Light Cleric archetype from the Adventurer's guide.
"These clerics are increasingly at the vanguard of the organization's efforts to redeem the fallen, particularly Drow who seek to escape their society's strictures."
Sorcerer or Arcanist. That way you can invest in charisma and actually use it for non people skills. Enchanter or Illusionist. Boost your save dcs as high as possible. Subtle spell might actually see play.
An arcane caster is certainly a good option given the group. You may however what to consider something more fun.
- Bard
- Bard/Master spy (@ level 7)
- Vigilante (warlock)
- Psychic with the psychedelia discipline (just your average groovy caster that everyone loves to hand out with)
As a player or GM I eye roll so damn hard when I see someone mention non-evil Drow that sometimes they get stuck.
As others have said, your justification is kind of weak for being not evil.
It's also worth noting on Golarion that Drow are essentially boogeymen that no one has heard of before. They almost never come to the surface. Even if you character decided not to be evil, it is just as likely for them to hide out in the dark caverns they know, rather than go the surface world that they know nothing about.
Honestly, if your family killed the person you loved it would be much more drow for the character to plot the complete disgrace and death of the offending family members, rather than run away from the problem.
I’ll forgo the petty eye roll lack of imagination rebuttal. The bottom line is no race with hundreds of thousands of individuals is going to lack variation.
The idea that there are NO Drow on the surface is not true at all:
Second darkness
Drow know about the surface and can have any number of connections to it if you use your imagination)
Drow/Elf war
Currently fighting a war in Varisia against the elves (city of Celwynvian in the Mierani Forest)
Lantern Bearer prestige class
Drow have an elf gate…where does it go?
Here are a few options for a Drow moving to the surface
Magical mishap
If you’re playing a caster perhaps you master, who is a teleportation expert, used you for an experiment. The experiment went sideways and now you are on the surface. You have no way home and there is little chance your mistress is spending any effort to find a lowly apprentice.
Cult worship
Your family worshiped a god forbidden by the Drow (neutral or chaotic neural god)
Option 1: the cult moves to the surface to be closer to their god
Option 2: the cult is discovered and you escape the purge. Moving upward to Nar-Voth you discover an exit to the surface. Do you take your chances to live free…
Captured
You where captured or perhaps sold to the Duergar as a slave. Through circumstance you get a chance to escape but your only option is up to the surface.
Soldier
You’re fighting the elves in the Mierani forest (or maybe the worldwound) and you heart isn’t in the conflict. You’re nothing more than a pawn in the noble’s great game. Your unit is nearly wiped out and you find a chance to slip away and live free….do you take it?
It’s easy to imagine that once outside the cruel reality of Drow society that an individual Drow could, and most likely would, change their behavior. You can easily imagine a neutral or chaotic neutral Drow living in and surviving in a neutral evil society.
If your group is okay with the concept don't let other peoples ideas of what 'should be' get in your way. It's a game so play something you enjoy.
I hope they release new races in the core rule book and gradually add the old familiar races over time. you can better believe my game will have Drow not matter what they release. The race is so wonderfully complex to not be part of the game.
If there is anyone considering running this campaign setting be prepared to do the following
(1) Speed up the first part of the book because it starts to bog down.
(2) Be prepared to drastically adjust the content on the island so the CR is appropriate for the level party.
With a few tweaks this can be a fun adventure.
(note: hard to believe this book passed play testing as written)
Winter witch prestige class doesn't actually lose a caster level if the base class is a witch. The "Winter Witchcraft" ability completely supersedes the "Spells per day" ability, since "other witch class abilities" includes "Spells" and "Patron Spells".
Not full spell progression, though. Winter witchcraft stacks with an explicit list except for "effects of her [...] other class abilities". This means she has full caster level, but not full progression.
Winter witches give up spell progression and a caster level on spells but not hexes or other abilities. WW level 1 spells per day = +0.
Spells per Day
At the indicated levels, a winter witch gains new spells per day and patron spells as if she had also gained a level in the witch class. She does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained except for additional spells per day and an increased effective level of spellcasting.
Winter Witchcraft
Levels of the winter witch prestige class stack with witch levels for determining when she learns new hexes, the effect of her hexes and other witch class abilities (including archetype abilities), the abilities of her witch's familiar, and the level at which she can select major hexes or grand hexes.
Linguistics is the most appropriate skill as it deals in forgery of letter and documents and seals are major part of documents in the world. To be honest linguistics doesn't get much love so throw people with the skill a bone.
Disable device doesn't make much sense as the issue has nothing to do with locks or traps.
In most games I play in the combats list 5-10 rounds at most which means the assassin spends a good chuck of the combat eyeballing dudes from the shadows...creepy
GM: What do you do this round Mr. Assassin?
Mr Assassin: I eyeball the guy, really really hard
I could replace snap shot and improved snap shot with critical focus and improved critical. Another option is to take a couple feat that boost melee to help in that department.
I’m working on a character for my next campaign based on Lord Flashart from Blackadder. If don’t know Blackadder go find the series and watch it STAT. =p
To create this iconic character, I settled on a Cavalier from the Order of the Cockatrice (OotC) with the Dune Drifter (DD) archetype. The OotC was a no brainer and the DD archetype seems like a good fit. Jump in shoot some stuff and yell, WOOF (with pelvic thrust)
In all, I’m happy with the concept. However, I want to make sure I’m not missing something cool or nerfing myself too much in my quest for a bit of fun. Can you guys see any glaring gaps in the stat allocation or feats?
Quick note, I went down the path of using snap shot and improved snap shot to maximize steal glory. I’m concerned that those feats are a bit weak.
Lord Flashart
Human Male
Gunslinger 1 / Dune Drifter Cavalier 12
Order of the Cockatrice
Stats:
20 Point Buy
Starting: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Chr 17(15+2)
Level bonuses @ 13th Dex +2, Chr +1
Traits:
Traits
Fast talker (compliments the fabulist grit feat)
Larger than life (compliments order of the cockatrice braggart)
skills:
Skills to focus on
Perform oratory, bluff, intimidate, perception (always)
Cast a sending? If word gets out I'm missing, five hundred girls will kill themselves. And I wouldn't want them on my conscience, not when they ought to be on my *face*! Hello? Cancel the state funeral, tell the king to stop blubbing, Flash is not dead! I simply ran out of juice! And before five hundred girls all go 'oh, what's the point in living any more?' I'm talking about magic! Woof! Send someone along to pick me up. General Melchett's mage will do, she hangs round with a big knob so she'll be used to a fellow like me. Woof!
So, with ACG just around the bend the question is perfectly clear:
What character will you make first?
And as a follow up:
What kind of potential do you see in the classes?
Sadly the GMs I play with hate this book and will not allow it's use in game. Having read the beta materials they both agree the book is over the top and a major power creep (i.e. base classes now worthless).
I disagree but experience tells me it's pointless to argue.
The alignment system has multiple uses all of them make for a better game:
(1) Motivation - helps the player tell the story of the PC. What motivates them? How would they act given a particular situation? If you want to bounce around and do whatever you want their are alignments for that type of persona.
(2) Guidelines - helps make sense of certain organizations, activities, and classes. Of course a Hell Knight's must be lawful that's what they are all about. You wouldn't be a Hell Knight for very long if you were chaotic. They are supported by actual powers and abilities directly from the Hells.
(3) Understanding the world - their are beings in the world that are physical manifestations of good/evil. How these beings act should be motivated by this fact. Super happy and friendly Balor? Outside of powerful magic not bloody likely.
People want to rationalize the need to power game. The "I want to dip x levels in Y" crowd and then go back to being a person that is directly opposite of what it takes to be, or learn to be, Y.
I mean to be a monk you just wait for a level and starting adding monk abilities right? There is no need to have ever set foot in a monastery. There is no need to be the type of person that would train for month/years in an extremely regimented way to achieve amazing feats of mind and body?
I was wondering, who would worship an evil deity. Possibly, why would a "sane" person do it. Anyone with any kind of logical capabilities. What gain would you get?
Unlike the real world (not looking for a debate on region here) there is ZERO doubt that gods exist. They are real, you can sometimes see them, and they grant real power. Given this fact some people will take the power and use it for their own selfish reasons.
Groups of these like minded individuals will create communities and then before you know it whole generations are indoctrinated to the cause. Are all Drow evil? Likely no, but I wouldn't turn my back on one or assume they'll do the right thing. Not a chance.
Imagine if you were poor, barely surviving, and someone said "I can help you. I can give you real power and wealth." What would you do? These things happen in the real world and that's why we have gangs willing to kill to survive.
Thanks for the kudos/bump. Already have two new users. :)
@Baroth
Archetypes are in the pipeline. They are a major change to the system and there are a huge amount of them. It will definitely take time to do them. Before I can work on those, I am trying to get Animal Companions, Eidolons and Familiars done. Both Animal Companions and Eidolons are a big deal as well, so between companions and archetypes, these will be a couple months in implementing. But, they will be there eventually. :)
I'll start off with...I love this. Currently I'm playing in two games and in both games I'm playing an archetype. Once you've got those loaded I'll be all over this sucker. Thanks for the hard work.
True you don't lose abilities but it's a no go in my gaming group to flip alignments. YMMV.
So, your group has no character development?
Character development yes. Flipping alignments to min/max no and our GM will call a spade a spade. In our group your alignment is at the core of who you character is and how they view the world. You should have a good reason to change alignment. Like I said your group may differ.
Back on topic. I still think the class is a fun option that has a lot to offer. If I could change anything it would be knockout.
I find it to be boring. Mechanically, and flavor-wise.
It brings nothing new to the table, and accomplishes nothing you could not already with a Brawler (Fighter archetype) with a 2 level dip in Monk.
Martial Maneuvers is far too limited in uses per day to be worthwhile, and that's not likely to be fixed (at most, SKR was thinking about letting you add your Wis mod to the number of uses per day and adding an Extra feat).
All the good stuff (like Awesome Blow) comes far too late to matter, though this one IS getting fixed.
Other than that it's just a Fighter. Definitely the second biggest disappointment of the ACG Playtest (behind the Hunter, which they might as well rename "Druid That Sucks"). A Warpriest makes a better unarmed brawler character than it does, with a whole bunch of other extras too.
gnoams wrote:
The one thing that I think is silly is that they are proficient with shields as weapons, but not as armor.
Careful, during the playtest a lot of posts got wiped because they mentioned that.
And heaven help you if you mention the weapon that must not be named (brass knuckles).
Except that a 2 level dip in Monk requires a Lawful alignment unless you go martial artist which isn't all that great IMO.
You get full flurry
Unarmed damage progression
Unarmed DR bypass abilities
Good bonus feat progression
And combat feat flexibility with martial maneuvers
A lot of really great flexibility here with some neat possible combinations.
Monks don't lose abilities by changing alignment.
The rest of it you can get by either taking more Monk levels or more Fighter levels, depending on your preference.
It's just not a very inspired class.
True you don't lose abilities but it's a no go in my gaming group to flip alignments. YMMV.
I find it to be boring. Mechanically, and flavor-wise.
It brings nothing new to the table, and accomplishes nothing you could not already with a Brawler (Fighter archetype) with a 2 level dip in Monk.
Martial Maneuvers is far too limited in uses per day to be worthwhile, and that's not likely to be fixed (at most, SKR was thinking about letting you add your Wis mod to the number of uses per day and adding an Extra feat).
All the good stuff (like Awesome Blow) comes far too late to matter, though this one IS getting fixed.
Other than that it's just a Fighter. Definitely the second biggest disappointment of the ACG Playtest (behind the Hunter, which they might as well rename "Druid That Sucks"). A Warpriest makes a better unarmed brawler character than it does, with a whole bunch of other extras too.
gnoams wrote:
The one thing that I think is silly is that they are proficient with shields as weapons, but not as armor.
Careful, during the playtest a lot of posts got wiped because they mentioned that.
And heaven help you if you mention the weapon that must not be named (brass knuckles).
Except that a 2 level dip in Monk requires a Lawful alignment unless you go martial artist which isn't all that great IMO.
You get full flurry
Unarmed damage progression
Unarmed DR bypass abilities
Good bonus feat progression
And combat feat flexibility with martial maneuvers
A lot of really great flexibility here with some neat possible combinations.
Fighters still have limited feats.You choose what your fighter specializes in or if you want a really nice chance to prevent something like being grappled then you take close quarters fighting. No fighter build can do it all. The same could be said for every other class. As opposed to the solution of "there is a spell for that" as if casters were not limited on the number of spells they can cast per day.
The issue with fighters, for me, is how the game deals with feats. To be affective fighters MUST plan their feats and pay the feat tax (which can be MASSIVE). Even with well planned feats fighters will still have big holes in defense/offense. Magic items can circumvent some of the limitations but not all.
Even after a fighter has planned their combat future out of combat potential is really limited. It's the out of combat mediocrity that really bothers me about the fighter class.
In a perfect world every class would get combat abilities/feats and out of combat abilities/feats that were separate. Of course more martial classes could get more combat and less out of combat but at least they'd have something. As it stands fighters must spend all their feats on combat to maintain effectiveness.
Most of my characters are CN. None of them are chaotic stupid. In fact they are the most conniving, plotting, outside the box thinking characters at the table. They don't kick in doors, they don't murder bums, and they don't hinder the party. They have their own agendas but won't sacrifice everything for themselves.
I'm right there with you. I enjoy CN characters because they are free spirits unhindered by the good/evil paradigm. My characters have agendas, which can be long term, that the work on at their own pace. The characters work with the group, after all it's in their interest, but the don't put the groups goals above their own. Above all they are individuals and that's appealing.
Over my gaming career I've seen many people say CN is lazy. In fact to play CN correctly it takes thought and a consideration of the characters motivations. LG is easy, not always fun, or convenient, but easy to determine. There is a finesse to playing CN.
Ultimately you should play an alignment for two main reasons (1) it's fun (2) it fits in with the group which in turn feeds #1. Don't worry to much about what someone thinks is lazy or easy-mode.
Benefit: While you have an opponent pinned, when you succeed at a grapple combat maneuver check to deal an opponent nonlethal damage using an unarmed strike or a light or one-handed weapon, double your damage result. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is immune to the effects of this feat.
So assume I'm playing a Drow unarmed warrior and I've got some poor sap pinned between my weight lifter sized thighs (strong like bull). Once pinned I decide to use Pinning Knockout, see below:
"With Greater Grapple, making a grapple check is a move action only once you grapple a creature.
So if you take a standard action to grapple a foe, and still have a move action in the round because you haven't moved or taken out a potion or opened a door or something like that, you can indeed make an attempt to pin the foe as that move action.
The monk's tactics are pretty much exactly the way Greater Grapple is intended to work. If that feels overpowered, remember that in order to even qualify for Greater Grapple, you need that base attack bonus of +6. A single-classed monk can't get this feat until 9th level (since that's the first level he has a BAB of +6 and can pick a feat. By 9th level, his wizard friend can teleport and his cleric friend can raise the dead."
So "maintain" is not just for round 2 and beyond. With Greater Grapple and Rapid Grapple you can can be within 5 feet of a foe and go from grappled to pin to tie up in a single round.
Considering you have to be like level 12 or more to do this a second level hold person would do the same at level 3 :P
And you cant use Rapid Grapple either way cause Rapid Grapple specify you need to use a move action to MAINTAIN the grapple, and you can only do that if your opponent get a opportunity do break the grapple and fail or dont try(for example if he full attack you instead). You dont mantain the grapple in the same round you initiate it, but you can do 2 grapple checks(one to grapple and one to pin, for example) but both are without the +5 bonus you gain to mantain the grapple cause 1 round hadnt pass to allow you to mantain it.
Assuming I had all the feats is this order of events possible?
• Unarmed trip (assume improved trip and improved unarmed)
• Attack of Opportunity (AoO) from greater trip
• Ki Throw to move the target to another square
• Vicious stomp because they go prone
• Binding throw to start a grapple because of Ki throw (swift action)
Did you know that tripping someone with Greater Trip provokes from EVERYONE, not just the guy with the Greater Trip feat? Cool, no?
I never noticed that...
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.
Seems ok to me as long as you have combat reflexes.
Edit: Ki throw's movement does not provoke, so I'm not sure it works now.
Ki throw's movement doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity but the fact that it's a trip triggers greater trip. This trip leads to the prone condition with triggers vicious stomp....so-on-and-so-forth.
Assuming I had all the feats is this order of events possible?
• Unarmed trip (assume improved trip and improved unarmed)
• Attack of Opportunity (AoO) from greater trip
• Ki Throw to move the target to another square
• Vicious stomp (AoO) as they go prone
• Binding throw to start a grapple (swift action)
Does that work?
If I started the combat near the target (move action still available) could I use greater grapple as well? It seems to me that rapid grapple is out because my swift action would have been used on Binding Throw.
It’s a crazy series of events but the feat cost is HIGH.
Okay I finally get it and understand your first post. It seems that Awesome Blow would fall into the same category as Trip but it depends on my GM's ruling. Makes sense.
I'm looking to make a new character to replace one that recently died to a particularly nasty boss (home brew side quest). Our group needs a melee damage dealer with some battle field control (we already have a tank, ranged, healer, and caster). Since we are in Varisia I decided to try a dex based Monk/Brother of the Seal.
So my questions are...
1) can you take weapon finesse in unarmed? I'm pretty sure this one is yes.
2)(assuming #1 is yes) Do I need agile maneuvers to replace str with dex for Awesome Blow (brother of the seal) or Trip combat maneuvers while unarmed?
Weapon Finesse:
Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Awesome Blow:
Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may perform an awesome blow combat maneuver. If the creature's maneuver succeeds against a corporeal opponent smaller than itself, its opponent takes damage (typically slam damage plus Strength bonus) and is knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature's choice and falls prone. The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can't move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in. If an obstacle prevents the completion of the opponent's move, the opponent and the obstacle each take 1d6 points of damage, and the opponent is knocked prone in the space adjacent to the obstacle.
1) Gunslingers (my group just hates the concept)
2) Synth Summoners
3) ALL pit spells (many are save or die)
As a player I recently took Leadership for the first time and I'm really hating tracking two character sheets. I'm going to suggest we add leadership to the banned list.
Disagree on the extra feat ability being red. There are a number of mythic feat that added to the right build are devastating and worth losing a path ability or two.
I’m looking for some advice on a trip/grapple Lore Warden build. In our last campaign my group we had a real problem with the bad guys getting past our front line and causing our casters and healers real problems.
I’m looking to make a fighter than can quickly move in and shut down any of these behind-our-formation shenanigans. As an added bonus it would be great to support the front lines with much needed damage and harass support.
Take a look and help me find the gaps…..
Concept
A demure, and bookish, looking female warrior that packs an unexpected punch (pun?) with a mix of trips and grapples. The goal is to put larger foes on their butts (and/or in a choke hold) through a mix of speed and technique.
Weapons
Cestus for close range
Hooked lance for reach
Build:
Human Lore Warden 15
Female Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 15
NG Medium Humanoid (human)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 15, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +15;
CMB +29(31 for grapples and trips)
CMD 41 (43 for grapples and trips)
