So on the Brawler threads during the play test, folks talked about how one could already meet the brawler concept with the fighter archetype and a dip into many styles monk. I got all excited over the idea and decided my next PFS character would follow this path. While all those fancy new Brawlers hit the tables, I'd show them the old school way.
Today I sat down to build one. It's... not as easy as it was made to sound.
I really liked the idea of a full plate brawler pounding his enemies with gauntlets or some other close weapon, but that means two weapon fighting, and TWF seems a frivolous Dex expenditure in heavy armor. So you can either go TWF in light armor with the brawling enchantment, or single weapon in heavy armor. A single weapon wouldn't be practical for close weapons since you can't two hand a close weapon, so we are left with the light armor option.
Okay, let's roll with that then. I noticed war fans were in the close weapon group. A dual wielding war fan fighter is a great concept. Except there don't seem to be any good style feats that are usable with war fans.
Okay... unarmed then. We want to make use of the styles. Great. But now we run into every monk problem ever, the first of which is 'how do you get past DR?' So maybe a close weapon in one hand and unarmed strike in the other...
...and that just looks silly. I've talked myself around from "why play a Brawler when you can use the Fighter/Monk?" to "why play a Fighter/Monk when you can just go Brawler?"
So yeah. Can anyone post or link to a demonstration build so I can see how it's done?
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Well, 2 hand a shield bash could get nice damage while using full plate and a heavy shield for maximum AC potential, using power attack all the way isn't a bad way to go.
On the other hand, a Dex-based unarmed strike build with an agile AoMF, Brawling Mithral Breastplate, and crane or dragon style chain could be nice as well, stacking up as much static damage as you can onto it.
Or you could just play a sohei in mithral Breastplate with a nodachi flurry and be better off with the multiple attacks at a high critical threat range.
Korak Fists of Fury is my favorite unarmed build so far...
I later realized he doesn't need Double Slice, since a Monk's unarmed attack is never considered off-hand attack anyway, so he should grab a different feat instead.
His build does require some alignment juggling, though...
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Korak Fists of Fury is my favorite unarmed build so far...
I later realized he doesn't need Double Slice, since a Monk's unarmed attack is never considered off-hand attack anyway, so he should grab a different feat instead.
His build does require some alignment juggling, though...
I like mixing Martial Artist with Barb more than MoMS. Immunity to fatigue is really good, and you don't have to go through alignment hoops.
So yeah. Can anyone post or link to a demonstration build so I can see how it's done?
While I much prefer the more ideally optimized Goblin version I used in our Rise of the Runelords campaign, this was our Human version which made his appearance in a Shattered Star run:
Human 2nd level Master of Many Styles / 15th level Fighter
Traits:
Heavy Hitter
Carefully Hidden
Feats:
1st - Weapon Finesse
1st - Two-Weapon Fighting
1st - Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
2nd - Improved Unarmed Strike
2nd - Stunning Fist
2nd - Snake Style
3rd - Snake Fang
3rd - Combat Reflexes
4th - Dodge
5th - Crane Style
6th - Crane Wing
7th - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8th - Piranha Strike
9th - Crane Riposte
10th - Agile Maneuvers
11th - Stand Still
12th - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
13th - Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike
14th - Critical Focus
15th - Sickening Critical
15th - Staggering Critical
16th - Critical Mastery
17th - Greater Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
At 9th level (the only version I have on hand at the moment), with standard WBL, he had:
AC 32 with Crane Wing and Menacing Stance to go with above average saves.
Attack of +17/+17/+12/+12 with Crane Riposte, Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes
for 1d6+14 damage (-3 attack, +6 damage if using Piranha Strike).
My goblin is/was better though. Nobody wanted to attack him and nobody could get away from him... and the things this build can do to spellcasters - especially if its tweaked a bit for that eventuality - are just sick.
So no - not all talk.
Wow, theorycrafting only matching the real world in extreme examples? I'm shocked. SHOCKED! I say!
Well, there's this.
Reallocate his wealth into stat boosters and such and he's likely to be a bit more effective (though with less interesting stuff). The game he's from had a few houserules, as you can see (no "Big 4" items, Fighters get 4+Int skills) but the build itself would remain largely unchanged without those, except he'd bring a mite less to the table out of combat.
Even with Feats "wasted" on stuff like Angel Wings and Skill Focus (from Focused Study) he's more combat effective than most Brawlers I could build, before or after the Revision. Though the proposed changes to make Martial Maneuvers more usable can very well change that.
Wow, theorycrafting only matching the real world in extreme examples? I'm shocked. SHOCKED! I say!
Hey now - who brought the 'real world' into this?
I like mixing Martial Artist with Barb more than MoMS. Immunity to fatigue is really good, and you don't have to go through alignment hoops.Korak Fists of Fury is my favorite unarmed build so far...
I later realized he doesn't need Double Slice, since a Monk's unarmed attack is never considered off-hand attack anyway, so he should grab a different feat instead.
His build does require some alignment juggling, though...
Where does the immunity to Fatigue come in?
Where does the immunity to Fatigue come in?I like mixing Martial Artist with Barb more than MoMS. Immunity to fatigue is really good, and you don't have to go through alignment hoops.Korak Fists of Fury is my favorite unarmed build so far...
I later realized he doesn't need Double Slice, since a Monk's unarmed attack is never considered off-hand attack anyway, so he should grab a different feat instead.
His build does require some alignment juggling, though...
At 5th level.
At 5th level.Where does the immunity to Fatigue come in?I like mixing Martial Artist with Barb more than MoMS. Immunity to fatigue is really good, and you don't have to go through alignment hoops.Korak Fists of Fury is my favorite unarmed build so far...
I later realized he doesn't need Double Slice, since a Monk's unarmed attack is never considered off-hand attack anyway, so he should grab a different feat instead.
His build does require some alignment juggling, though...
Ah - just realized I was looking at the 3PP Martial Artist rather than the Paizo one. Got it.
I like mixing Martial Artist with Barb more than MoMS. Immunity to fatigue is really good, and you don't have to go through alignment hoops.
Indeed... But MoMS is freaking cool! Snake & Dragon is the coolest style combination there is, IMHO. With the added benefit that Snakes doesn't pisses GMs off nearly as much as Snake does... And I wanted it to be as much of a Barbarian as possible... Delaying Spell Sunder to 15th level (instead of 12th) hurts... :(
Folks, this is exactly why actual playtesting is more important than theorycraft.
I apologize for posting an off-topic point. Please continue to help the OP. I will not disrupt your efforts to do so again.
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I absolutely found nothing about the brawler class to be worthwhile. It felt like a very weak and watered down version of both original classes with no incentive to take it. I have a monk of my own who is a brawler and master of many styles. He is very fun to play and nothing like what you would expect from a brawler (he is full support and not focused on damage dealing).
Here is roughly what he looks like: Cadigan.