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So, there's currently a violent discussion going on elswhere about the nature of the gunslinger, so I thought I'd bring up an idea about changing the gunslinger. I like the mechanics of the gunslinger, but in the end the flavor doesnt work everywhere. So I imagined an alternative:
Replace guns with crossbows;
That's pretty much it. Keep ALL the same basic mechanics (removing any mention of misfire), replace gunsmithing with skill focus (craft (bows)), and give them proficiency with all crossbows. Gun training becomes crossbow training, becoming dex to damage with 1 crossbow type (& maybe +1 each time for one type to hit since they are still going up against regular AC, like weapon training).
The "pistolero" could specialize in one-handed crossbows, the musket muster in 2-handed.
I like crossbows enough, but as others have pointed out, paizo no like crossbowmen. Maybe some crossbowmen took down their golem or something. So here's something I think could be fun. What do you guys think?
This idea is quite popular. I was thinking about it last month and with some research about what other people have done, I made an crossbow focused gunslinger archetype.
Since a lot of deeds are very gun related, I think a pure translation to gunslinger to crossbow master is difficult. You can't just replace the word gun by crossbow.
Here is my take on the subject.
Boltslinger , a Gunslinger Archetype
Weapon and Armor Proficiency :
A boltslinger gains proficiency in all crossbows, but he loses proficiency in firearms.
Marksmen (Ex):
At 1st level, a boltslinger learn to aim using both his personal accuracy and his wit, deducing with great precision the reaction of his target. When shooting with a crossbow within the first range increment, a boltslinger may add his Wisdom modifier in addition to his Dexterity modifier to determine his bonus to attack roll. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s gunsmith ability.
Grit (Ex)
As the gunslinger’s ability, but only apply to crossbows instead of firearms.
Deeds (Ex)
As the gunslinger’s ability, but all boltslinger’s deeds use crossbows instead of firearms.
Sniper (Ex): At 1st level, a boltslinger can resolve an attack using marksmen from farther. Performing this deed cost 1 grit point and doubles the first range increment of the crossbow for one attack. The boltslinger still takes the –2 penalty on attack rolls for each range increment beyond this new first as if the range increment was normal. This ability replaces the deadeye gunslinger’s deed.
Quick Reload (Ex): At 1st level, as long as the boltslinger has at least one grit point, he is treated as having the appropriate Rapid Reload feat for any crossbow he is using. This deed is treated as the Rapid Reload feat to fulfill any requirement to another feat. As a swift action, at the cost of 1 grit point, the boltslinger may also reload any crossbow without provoking attack of opportunity. The ability replaces the quick clear gunslinger’s deed.
Pinning Bolt (Ex): At 3rd level, as a standard action and at the cost of 1 grit point, a boltslinger can fire a bolt at an enemy and try to pin the target to a near surface. The target must be within 5 feet of a wall, floor or any solid immobile object to be targeted by this deed. If the attack hit, the target suffer damage normally and must succeed a Reflex checks DC 10 + 1/2 the boltslinger’s level + the boltslinger’s Dexterity modifier of be entangled and cannot move unless he breaks free or sunders the bolt. The bolt break DC is 13, and it has hardness 5 and 1 hit point. The target can also try an Escape Artist checks against a DC 10 + the boltslinger’s level + the boltslinger’s Dexterity modifier. This ability replaces the pistol whip gunslinger’s deed.
Utility Shot (Ex):
Emergency Cable: As an immediate action and the cost of 1 grit point, a boltslinger which is falling can interrupt his fall by shooting a solid object with his crossbow. The objet must be within half the fist range increment of the crossbow, the boltslinger must carry enough rope length to reach it, and the shot must do damage to the object. For the purpose of this deed, the ranged damages are not divided by 2 against objects. If the boltslinger succeed, he negates all falling damage and is hanging at the end of the rope (count as climbing, but can use both hands freely), attached by a harness. At any time, as long as the boltslinger have at least 1 grit point, he may use this deed as a standard action to climb surface. When climbing by this way, he can use his hands freely without penalties. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s blast lock utility shot deed.
Skeet Shooting: Once per round as a free action, as long as the boltslinger has at least 1 grit point, he can shoot at a thrown weapon aiming him and deflect it, as per the Deflect Arrow feat, but only against thrown weapons. By spending 1 grit point as an immediate action, the boltslinger may deflect a thrown weapon targeting an ally within 30 ft. The boltslinger must hold a loaded crossbow to use this deed. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s stop bleeding utility shot deed.
Squatted Combat (Ex): At 7th level, as long as the boltslinger has at least 1 grit point, he gains the benefit of the Prone Shooter combat feat and mays make 5 foots step even if he is prone. The AC bonus provided by the gunslinger’s dodge deed is increased by 2 if the boltslinger chooses to drop prone. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s startling shot deed.
Targeting (Ex): As the gunslinger’s ability, except that torso shots increase the crossbow’s critical modifier by 1 instead of the normal benefit. At 11th level, this ability can be used as part of a standard action or as a free action in conjunction with the dead shot deed. This ability replaces the normal targeting gunslinger’s deed and the expert loading gunslinger’s deed.
From the Hips (Ex): At 11th level, a boltslinger learn how to aim and shoot faster, making his attacks unpredictable. As long as the boltslinger has at least 1 grit point, the first bolt he fires at any target each round treat him as flat-footed as long as long as he is within half the crossbow’s first range increment. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s lightning reload deed.
Lung perforation (Ex): At 15th level, at the cost of 1 grit point, a boltslinger can shoot a performing shot that affect a target as if he was subject to the ray of exhaustion spell. The DC of the effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the boltslinger’s level + the boltslinger’s Wisdom modifier. Targets that fail their save also suffer a 50% spell failure chance when using spell with verbal components because of cough and hard breathing for a number of rounds equal to the boltslinger’s Wisdom modifier. This ability replaces the menacing shot gunslinger’s deed. Creature immune to critical hit aren't affected by this deeds.
Crossbow Training (Ex):
As Gun Training, but the boltslinger must chooses a type of crossbow. This ability replaces the gunslinger’s gun training ability.
Some nice stuff; but I'm still looking for something more generalizable, so as to apply it as a blanket replacement. I'll have to do some deeper research I guess.
Still, you've done a good overview of deeds. As for myself, I would not use your "marksmen" ability (replacing it with something for crafting with crossbows, as I prefer.) and make it so that crossbow training gives dex to damage & a +1 to hit for every time (so, level 5, 9, 13,17 for a total of +4). I'd probably allow it to be boosted by gloves of the duelist as well.
However, I would like this to be more than just a "cause damage" type of class.
Yes lazarx. Sometimes, people asking innocent-souding questions start riots on the internet. Kinda like going into a football match between team X & Y, and asking why team X is so strong. It's just gonna cause trouble, even if it was an innocent question.
There's already a Crossbowman fighter archetype.
This is a pretty simple argument to settle. GM likes them, they're in the game. GM hates them, they're not. Bada-bing-bada-boom.
This is for me (as a GM) because I like the mechanics of gunslingers but not the fluff; the crossbowman cant really represent this. I'm mainly looking to know what people think about this idea, because I know the crossbowman archetype aint much (and why is it so obsessed with readied actions?)
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Yeah, it would probably have been less controversial for Paizo to call the class "the Sharpshooter" and make it crossbow inclusive. Ah well.
My alteration would have an archetype
"Swashbuckler" (Oh wait... erhmmmm Skirmisher XD)
Replaces gunsmith: + to craft checks with chosen weapon
Choses Shortsword, Crossbow, or handaxe.
And it is one of the worst designed archetypes in the game, it is not a surprise to want something more.There's already a Crossbowman fighter archetype.
technically you can ready a cleave... so the crossbowman isn't all that bad
technically you can ready a cleave... so the crossbowman isn't all that badAnd it is one of the worst designed archetypes in the game, it is not a surprise to want something more.There's already a Crossbowman fighter archetype.
readyin a cleave is bad, if someone move in away that do not allow to cleave you lost the action.
I my opinion the designer of the archtype did not really cared about it, it seems.
Althought, knowig the offical stace on crossbow, it would not e a surprise taht the archetype was designed to suck to protect the santity of bows.
Snapshot tree is really your bet on readying a cleave...
but anyways that's just my take on it
The gunslinger gets lots of cheese because he focuses on one weapon, the gun. You can convert all that cheese to the crossbow, and call it the dedicated crossbowman, like the second poster did. Don't misunderstand me, I think cheese is good. I reject all definitions that depict cheese as unearned or imbalanced.