I really like the android race...but I am admittedly more of a "fantasy" fan than a "Sci-fi" fan.
As a result I find myself having a lot of trouble tying the race into many of the existing character classes(especially divine and arcane casters of any type).
Any chance that we will see an Advanced races style article on androids ?
Something that helps to give something more to go off of for concept generation ?
There is a chance, yes.
Is that chance significantly high? Absolutely.
Are androids going to be an appropriate PC choice for Iron Gods? Probably.
Will there be important, key, load-bearing android NPCS in the AP itself? Guaranteed.
EXCELLENT....I have so many weird questions about this race :)
Hope that it comes out early enough to start an android character at the beginning of the AP.
I am still trying to find excuse to smuggle anything android-related into the next Wayfinder...
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Android gunslinger archetype so their arm is a cannon. I'll worship you, Paizo. What domains do you offer?
Alternate android shells optimized for different tasks...
And we could see a racial prestige class for androids where they go for modifying their own bodies with more and more technological implants...
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There's been a lot of talk about androids since we released them in the Inner Sea Bestiary, and even more talk after the announcement of the Iron Gods Adventure Path. James and I have both answered a number of questions about them, and there will be more upcoming information.
For the purposes of expectation management, I do want to clarify something that James and I have both said about androids that I don't think some people are getting. Although they are created beings, they are very very similar to humans. Their creation is almost biotech, not just a robot sheathed in realistic skin. They are more like the androids in the Alien world, or perhaps those in Blade Runner, not the Terminator or Data. So, gun arms and all that would be no different than installing cybernetics in a human or elf or whatever.
I was thinking like the androids in Hyperion everyone should read that its good.
There's been a lot of talk about androids since we released them in the Inner Sea Bestiary, and even more talk after the announcement of the Iron Gods Adventure Path. James and I have both answered a number of questions about them, and there will be more upcoming information.
For the purposes of expectation management, I do want to clarify something that James and I have both said about androids that I don't think some people are getting. Although they are created beings, they are very very similar to humans. Their creation is almost biotech, not just a robot sheathed in realistic skin. They are more like the androids in the Alien world, or perhaps those in Blade Runner, not the Terminator or Data.
Even being a living creatures, with their biotech origins androids will have easier time receiving implants than more conventionally born humanoids. Such simple trait as immunity to disease means that they can stick implants in their bodies without risk of infection.
With android bodies containing nanites a whole mass of opportunities open for such development - android bodies might be already used to coping with things that would be part of implant installation/use: bio-electric power feed, heat dissipation, neural/computer interfacing.
I admit that I would like to see would be some racial feats that expand use of nanites. Or, if we get Numerian Wayfinder issue I will write them myself.
So, gun arms and all that would be no different than installing cybernetics in a human or elf or whatever.
Gun arm is actually poor choice. It replaces versatility of a manipulator for minor benefit of being harder to disarm and lack of problems with grip (which can be avoided with futurisitc bracer/handle combination anyway). Additional, multi-directional multi-purpose receptors.
So, gun arms and all that would be no different than installing cybernetics in a human or elf or whatever.Gun arm is actually poor choice. It replaces versatility of a manipulator for minor benefit of being harder to disarm and lack of problems with grip (which can be avoided with futurisitc bracer/handle combination anyway). Additional, multi-directional multi-purpose receptors.
You just need a mechanical hand to plug into the gun when not in use, Mega Man style.
There's been a lot of talk about androids since we released them in the Inner Sea Bestiary, and even more talk after the announcement of the Iron Gods Adventure Path. James and I have both answered a number of questions about them, and there will be more upcoming information.
For the purposes of expectation management, I do want to clarify something that James and I have both said about androids that I don't think some people are getting. Although they are created beings, they are very very similar to humans. Their creation is almost biotech, not just a robot sheathed in realistic skin. They are more like the androids in the Alien world, or perhaps those in Blade Runner, not the Terminator or Data. So, gun arms and all that would be no different than installing cybernetics in a human or elf or whatever.
I for one am glad to hear that.
As I said, I'm not a Sci-fi fan...I would loose all interest in seeing them at my table if they went all "terminator".I'm more interested in understanding how they relate to things like worship (I have a hard time picturing an android cleric for example).
I can see them approaching wizard style magic...as just another science, but have a really hard time imagining an android sorcerer.
I guess I'm looking for more of an understanding of how they relate to a fantasy setting world.
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There's been a lot of talk about androids since we released them in the Inner Sea Bestiary, and even more talk after the announcement of the Iron Gods Adventure Path. James and I have both answered a number of questions about them, and there will be more upcoming information.
For the purposes of expectation management, I do want to clarify something that James and I have both said about androids that I don't think some people are getting. Although they are created beings, they are very very similar to humans. Their creation is almost biotech, not just a robot sheathed in realistic skin. They are more like the androids in the Alien world, or perhaps those in Blade Runner, not the Terminator or Data. So, gun arms and all that would be no different than installing cybernetics in a human or elf or whatever.
I for one am glad to hear that.
As I said, I'm not a Sci-fi fan...I would loose all interest in seeing them at my table if they went all "terminator".I'm more interested in understanding how they relate to things like worship (I have a hard time picturing an android cleric for example).
I can see them approaching wizard style magic...as just another science, but have a really hard time imagining an android sorcerer.
I guess I'm looking for more of an understanding of how they relate to a fantasy setting world.
I Agree with Nighttree, I would like to see some material on what androids are like on golarian, how they treat magic in all classes (divine most importantly), and what special traits, archetypes, and feats can they access themselves.
I for one am glad to hear that.
As I said, I'm not a Sci-fi fan...I would loose all interest in seeing them at my table if they went all "terminator".I'm more interested in understanding how they relate to things like worship (I have a hard time picturing an android cleric for example).
I can see them approaching wizard style magic...as just another science, but have a really hard time imagining an android sorcerer.
I guess I'm looking for more of an understanding of how they relate to a fantasy setting world.
I feel a rant coming on.*
I'm lumping this in with your OP but how do you have trouble with this as opposed to other things? The monster block in the ISB gives almost nothing on them except that they're around six foot, 200 lbs and don't remember where they were built/born. Also they either kind of pass for human or are the pale metal looking lady we see (my avatar even.)
That's it.
Beyond that, they can be whatever you want. There is not much to wrap your head around because there isn't much there unless you make it.
I guess we can get into a discussion about what makes a mind or identity or person and what makes them different but otherwise they're just people. Just like the ratfolk are rat shaped people etc. There are races that exist because someone's great-great-gram got her freak on with an angel/demon/rock/bonfire/lake/strong breeze who remain, people.
Maybe they go for divine classes because they want to understand more about the gods, or maybe because they see that gods exist, their classed followers are granted useful abilities in exchange for worship and that seems like a good deal. Or they find one who appeals to them and follow it because that's what everyone seems to do.
They become sorcerers because there was a storm or fire elemental nearby when they were born or whatever the standard reasons are. (Common ones include, "a seer told my great-great-great-great-great-great grandpa his descendant would be a magus and so he went about seducing a blue dragon, their child seduced an orc and then they went back to making babies with whatever race he was to begin with.")
If they pop up in your game, you've got to figure out in broad strokes what they are but that's pretty easy for the surface. In my game they're child-like in learning about the world and how to act** or they can all be the computer like leftovers from oodles of anime/comic/TV show/Eclipse Phase like things that seem to come up every time they get talked about.
I don't know why that happens, there are better games to play sci-fi with where design was done to handle those kinds of questions and ideas.
*Pathfinder is post apocalypse, not fantasy.
**Sadly the three big influences on them are a murderhobo, a psychotic child and an oft disinterested barbarian. By the end of the game androids will be an odd race.
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How does being post-apocalypse prevents being fantasy? Those are not exclusive tropes.
And it is nowhere near close to the purest post-apocalypse fantasy I can recall at the moment, which is Dark Sun.
Well, a bit of it is tribalism in that "fantasy" is generally invoked to dismiss things I like.
The other thing is Golarion is post-apocalypse, it's been a while but the ruins of the ancient more advanced civilization comes up all the time. Technology is all over the place developmentally speaking, horrors left over from the various peoples who came before wander the earth etc.
I feel a rant coming on.*I'm lumping this in with your OP but how do you have trouble with this as opposed to other things? The monster block in the ISB gives almost nothing on them except that they're around six foot, 200 lbs and don't remember where they were built/born. Also they either kind of pass for human or are the pale metal looking lady we see (my avatar even.)
That's it.
Beyond that, they can be whatever you want. There is not much to wrap your head around because there isn't much there unless you make it.
That's kind of my point.
I'm well aware of the fact that I can choose to make them "whatever I want"...my point is I would like to see what Paizo means to make of them.
Maybe they go for divine classes because they want to understand more about the gods, or maybe because they see that gods exist, their classed followers are granted useful abilities in exchange for worship and that seems like a good deal. Or they find one who appeals to them and follow it because that's what everyone seems to do.
Ok, so why does a god choose to grant THEM spells....do they have souls ? Are they part of the cycle of mortal souls ?
Or are they highly sophisticated objects that mimic sentiance.Based on what little information is known about them....about the only god I can imagine showing any interest in them...let alone granting spellcasting is possibly Brigh.
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I'd definitely love it if androids got the same treatment as aasimars and tieflings did in their respective "Blood of..." books, where there are different kinds of androids for different jobs.
Also hoping for Mega/X Buster style blaster arm attachments, or laser swords. Or player-usable force fields.
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Ok, so why does a god choose to grant THEM spells....do they have souls ? Are they part of the cycle of mortal souls ?
Humanoids have souls unless noted otherwise. Androids might lack emotions (which I think are more underdeveloped and not understood by androids themselves instead of being completely missing) but does not make them soulless.
Or are they highly sophisticated objects that mimic sentiance.
As Adam confirmed before, androids are explicitly living beings - artifically grown and augmented with nano, but still living beings.
Based on what little information is known about them....about the only god I can imagine showing any interest in them...let alone granting spellcasting is possibly Brigh.
Actually, I think that beyond a few racial deities most deities don't exactly care about their worshipers race/species as long as the worshiper is willing to serve the deity and follow its dictates.
The question of how androids and faith interact is in fact a HUGE part of the Iron Gods Adventure Path.
O.O I can't wait!
The question of how androids and faith interact is in fact a HUGE part of the Iron Gods Adventure Path.
With faith not being vital to Golarion deities there is also matter of interaction of worship and androids and deities.
I actually spent some time last night looking at clips from Bladerunner.
I hope this is closer to what they flesh out in the long run.
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Androids might lack emotions (which I think are more underdeveloped and not understood by androids themselves instead of being completely missing) but does not make them soulless.
Totally agree with that bolded interpretation(and the larger post). I imagine a big part of the fun to be had in playing androids is their frustration with emotions and interactions with others, and how they develop from there.
I figure "Emotionless" was just easier to put in their entry than "Emotionally Stunted". ;)
Totally agree with that bolded interpretation(and the larger post). I imagine a big part of the fun to be had in playing androids is their frustration with emotions and interactions with others, and how they develop from there.
I figure "Emotionless" was just easier to put in their entry than "Emotionally Stunted". ;)
Agreed.
I think having them struggle with their feelings, the feeling of others, and trying to understand how they fit into the grand scheme of things,...opens all sorts of interesting "role play" oppertunities.
One thing I am interested in seeing, is how they handle aging and such.
I think it would be cool to take a page from blade runner...
Have them start as adult, then determine a maximum age...but skip all the steps inbetween.
Or just straight up immortal, but no one will figure that out for a few hundred years.
At some point the psychology of their creators will become both important and evident in their design and function but there isn't enough now.
As for the souls/sentience stuff, Pathfinder is expressly not the game for that question. It's answered in part with they have souls because they can be raised from the dead. While sentience seems to be beyond the philosophy and idea space of the setting.
[In my home game they are part of the big mystery and a lot of it is about them learning from the PCs and NPCs what "people" are supposed to do. Since the androids have access to a creation vat, one of the possible endings is them assuming they should make an infinite army and attack everything because they have bad teachers.]
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I picture the Android race similar to the world of Tron, as even their physical description mirrors this perspective. Or perhaps, the ISOs from Tron Legacy/ Uprising.
Greeting Programs!
Welcome to...The Games!
Each android has been coded and harvested for specific tasks, engineered and biometrically geared for that task but can still have the capability of doing something different, its just inherently challenging.
I can see traits or feats that allow their nanites to recompile their code sequencing, providing fast healing or regeneration or stat boosts.
Rituals or feats that allow them to incorporate magic items into their body slots, similar to warforged artificers, and enchant their own bodies.
Main benefit would be that they pay only crafting costs to enchant themselves, but the draw back is the additional cost they would have to pay to remove previous 'slotted' item with the new one.
I do have a question though: are they immune to age effects?
can they age magically, or prematurely. or even naturally?
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I do have a question though: are they immune to age effects?
can they age magically, or prematurely. or even naturally?
There's nothing to prevent that. In fact, androids die of old age just like every other humanoid (though they don't appear any older, i.e. they don't get wrinkles and gray hair).
There's nothing to prevent that. In fact, androids die of old age just like every other humanoid.
I do have a question though: are they immune to age effects?
can they age magically, or prematurely. or even naturally?
Except that one unique android that was specifically built without limited lifespan. No, you can't play it.
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I was pretty much assuming that the August Player Companion is going to be Androids of Golarion to go with the Adventure Path. Besides the Iron Gods campaign traits, we'd get some android and robot themed rules items for players - android sorceror "bloodlines" like nanite or electrostasis, maybe a Luck subdomain like Probability, and some archetypes like Steel Fist monks and Short Circuit barbarians.
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"Short Circuit Barbarians"...Johnny Five is alive and ANGRY!;)
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Hey folks, I have a question for you: What is the one question you have about androids that you would like to see addressed in an article about androids? (I won't be answering those questions here, at least not until an article comes out.)
To manage expectations, I may not be able to answer all of the questions asked for whatever reason.
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How do androids interact with various classes? An Android bard, for instance, could grant morale bonuses to others, if not itself, but an Android Barbarian would seem to have a harder row to hoe, despite 'machines going berserk' being a staple of fantasy / sci-fi (with such memorable scenes as Priss flipping out as she dies in Blade Runner).
Could some Androids perhaps *not* be Emotionless? (allowing for robot berserkers?)
While I've got no issue with an Android Druid (no more unthematic than an organic being, such as a human, being fascinated with machines and taking up a career as an auto mechanic or electrician or computer programmer), or an Android Sorcerer (whose 'blood' may not be exactly like that of a humanoid, but if a bloodless genie or bloodless ghoul or bloodless ghost can become a Sorcerer, then that's just semantics, and there's nothing preventing an Android from being built from materials that are infused with demonic or elemental or draconic properties), the concept may seem un-intuitive to some, and some sort of 'official' justification might be useful to open up the race to less obvious career choices.
Do Androids know where they come from? If not, why not? There's a lot not known about Numeria and it's 'techno-sorcerers' and whatnot, and it might be cool if PC Androids didn't automatically get an inside scoop, with some being dug up from pods that were scattered during the fall, and waking up with no special awareness of the big secrets of the setting, or waking up in a chamber that just recently was discovered and has begun pumping out Androids, and, for whatever reason, hasn't been totally taken over by the Black Sovereign (maybe the robots, normally going along with 'orders,' have resisted attempts to enslave the Androids coming out of this production facility?), allowing some of these Androids to escape being enslaved / pressed into service (and therefore being available for PC use).
What does android taste like?
Just one? Hmmm....
Where do android souls come from?
Before I will answer that question, you must answer this: "What is the mechanic by which organic creatures are provided with souls?"
Answer this, and then ask yourself if there is anything preventing this mechanic from working on androids, and then get back to me. :)
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What does android taste like?
Robot Chicken.
Just one? Hmmm....
Where do android souls come from?
Before I will answer that question, you must answer this: "What is the mechanic by which organic creatures are provided with souls?"
Answer this, and then ask yourself if there is anything preventing this mechanic from working on androids, and then get back to me. :)
When a mother gives birth, a soul from the positive energy plane infuses with the newborn. Androids don't give birth, so...
Anyway, my question is: Androids have technologically advanced eyes that give them a +2 bonus to perception checks. But can they see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?
That's not the mechanic by which the soul is acquired though. Why does the soul enter? How does it target an infant body? Did someone send it? Why shouldn't whatever creates the android's body count as a "mother" that "gives birth" to it?
My big philosophical question is, what kind of horrible monstrous divinity would deny a sentient being a soul, however that sentience came about? And shouldn't sentience imply the presence of a soul, by definition? What good is a soul if it is not memory, identity, and consciousness? If my soul goes to the afterlife but my self does not go with it, why should I care that I ever had one?
...okay, none of those were really an "android question" per se. n.n; If the above makes no sense, it's because it's been over 24 hours since I slept. Good night all!
Are there any androids made to look like children or the elderly?
Do androids gain the mental bonuses and physical penalties of old age even though they do not age in the traditional sense?
While androids are made, are there any created that can give birth/reproduce?
What happens if an android gains full on emotions like a human?
How are they created? How long does it take? What is used to create them?
Can they breed with humans? (Or any other race if that's relevant.) Do they know how to procreate and propagate themselves? Do they have any desire to?
GOD'S I hope not.....that takes one of their most interesting points out of play.
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Sorry...but there is no way I can do just one......
Reproduction has already been touched on (and I'm SOOOO hoping not).
Are Androids built to emulate any specific ethnicity of humans ?
(I'm thinking no from the visual description in the bestiary).
How do Androids relate to matters of "faith" and religion ?
Also, how do god's relate to Andriods ?
How do Androids relate to the idea of "magic"..in it's varied forms ?
How do Androids relate to "nature" ?
How do Andriods relate to the other races ?