No, no- quite the opposite. I have actually read them.
I don’t see anyone saying that.
Then you've ignored every single one of Tormskull's posts.
I don't see how that's possible when he's directly stated what I've said on multiple occasions.
Stating a stat must represent all aspects of what its description says results in exactly what I said: All people who are attractive must have commanding presences, and vice versa (ugly people never have a naturally commanding presence).
such an idea omits many real world examples.
we have many unattractive dictators with commanding presences throughout history, and many cosmetically appealing people whom couldn't act, were complete wallflowers, or lacked an aura of authority
Hazuki Tepes is a cosmetically cute dhampir youth with a 5 charisma derived from her demanding expectations, her Tsundere Attitude, the fact she treats strangers and friends alike as little more than slaves to fullfill her needs, and is at best, tolerated by her Occult Babysitter and his family of Shinto Priests
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In the one scenario were I've ever seen the 6 attributes chopped in half in this way (what was it... advanced player options: skills and powers in 2e?) they allowed the split, but established limits to the spread of 2 up, 2 down.
Strength was split into Stamina and Muscle. Muscle for attack and damage bonuses, stamina for carry capacity
Dexterity was Aim and Balance. One for full body defenses and reactions and stealth and acrobatics, the other (aim) was manual desterity for ranged attacks and picking locks etc...
Con was split between health and fitness. One to help your hit points, the other to help your system shock and poison saves
Intelligence was split between Reason and Knowledge. Reason for high level spell casting and knowledge to help with learning new spells and skill bonuses
Wisdom was Intuition and Willpower. Intuition was Bonus spells per day and spell failure chances, willpower was for magic save bonuses
Charisma was Leadership and Appearance. Leadership for loyalty and henchmen, appearance for changing reaction adjustments
So if you had a 10 in an attribute like say strength... You could turn that into
12 Muscle 8 Stamina. You could hit a little harder and more accurately but the tradeoff is that you couldnt carry as much.
In this case a 16 charisma could mean an attractive but less commanding person, or a commanding but less attractive person, but it still left a limit to the spread of only 2 up 2 down.
A 16 charisma could be a 16leadership 16appearance, or an 18 appearance with 14leadership, or an 18 leadershp with a 14 appearance.
Yes it meant that the best leaders were better looking, and that an amazing looking person had a commanding presence even if they were meek personally because everyone can't help looking at them.
If Hazuki hat a 7 charisma in this system, they could turn it into a 5 leadership 9 appearance, but this system had limits on how far you can stretch the concept of 'powerful leaders can be ugly and gorgeous people can disappear into the woodwork unnoticed.
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Holy balls I forgot about this thread since I don't usually visit other sections of the site. This has been quite the conversation.
Hama, how do you expect someone to not play high intelligence just because they might not want to be a walking dictionary irl? That sort of forced roleplay detracts from the fantasy. It goes with DMs who expect me to articulate exactly how I'm using diplomacy or bluff on a character with almost godlike charisma as is. It breeds an expectation that if you can't be irl proficient with a topic then you can't roll certain classes. Did I miss your point or is this what you're talking about?
Sorry, but if the player is trying to get through a guarded door, him saying something along the lines of "Um, let us pass" will net him a neat -5 to -10 penalty to his dice roll. You have to roleplay social skills. Otherwise, we might as well be playing a video game.
In the one scenario were I've ever seen the 6 attributes chopped in half in this way (what was it... advanced player options: skills and powers in 2e?) they allowed the split, but established limits to the spread of 2 up, 2 down.
Strength was split into Stamina and Muscle. Muscle for attack and damage bonuses, stamina for carry capacity
Dexterity was Aim and Balance. One for full body defenses and reactions and stealth and acrobatics, the other (aim) was manual desterity for ranged attacks and picking locks etc...
Con was split between health and fitness. One to help your hit points, the other to help your system shock and poison saves
Intelligence was split between Reason and Knowledge. Reason for high level spell casting and knowledge to help with learning new spells and skill bonuses
Wisdom was Intuition and Willpower. Intuition was Bonus spells per day and spell failure chances, willpower was for magic save bonuses
Charisma was Leadership and Appearance. Leadership for loyalty and henchmen, appearance for changing reaction adjustmentsSo if you had a 10 in an attribute like say strength... You could turn that into
12 Muscle 8 Stamina. You could hit a little harder and more accurately but the tradeoff is that you couldnt carry as much.In this case a 16 charisma could mean an attractive but less commanding person, or a commanding but less attractive person, but it still left a limit to the spread of only 2 up 2 down.
A 16 charisma could be a 16leadership 16appearance, or an 18 appearance with 14leadership, or an 18 leadershp with a 14 appearance.Yes it meant that the best leaders were better looking, and that an amazing looking person had a commanding presence even if they were meek personally because everyone can't help looking at them.
If Hazuki hat a 7 charisma in this system, they could turn it into a 5 leadership 9 appearance, but this system had limits on how far you can stretch the concept of 'powerful leaders can be ugly and gorgeous people can disappear into the woodwork...
yeah that is the 2nd ed substat system i mentioned earlier.
No, no- quite the opposite. I have actually read them.
I don’t see anyone saying that.
Then you've ignored every single one of Tormskull's posts.
I don't see how that's possible when he's directly stated what I've said on multiple occasions.
Stating a stat must represent all aspects of what its description says results in exactly what I said: All people who are attractive must have commanding presences, and vice versa (ugly people never have a naturally commanding presence).
Yes ("what I've said"), right that *IS* what *YOU* said, not what he said. You're putting words in his mouth, building a strawman from his not so extreme position.
Go ahead, find where he said "All people who are attractive must have commanding presences, and vice versa (ugly people never have a naturally commanding presence)". Those are your words, not his.
I am not going to speak for him, but I do take the position that CHA (for example) is built on four facets (personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance). When you build someone with a middling score, you can say in your fluff that one facet or another is stronger or weaker. A person with a CHA of 10 could be fairly attractive, but maybe a little weaker in the other three. But if your PC has a super-extreme, something that occurs in less than 1 in a million, like a 5 or a 20, then it's hard to explain how you don't fail or excel in all facets. It just doesn't make sense that a 5 CHA is beautiful, or that a 20 CHA is repulsive. Once you've pegged to a extreme, then that's pretty much how it has to be. You chose that extreme, after all.
I have no problem that a PC with a CHA of 10 could be a "13" in appearance but a 9 in personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead- or even some larger variations. "Kinda cute but a bit of a wallflower" works for me.
But even in 2.75 with it's sub-ability scores, you could only reduce or increase the sub-ability by two. No PC with a "commanding presence" of 18 and a "appearance" of 3 was allowed.
No doubt that CHA is the fuzziest ability, with the most room for wiggle. But there's not infinite room for wiggle. The fluff has to be somewhat based upon the stats...or why did you put that number in that stat if you're not willing to play it?
Sorry, but if the player is trying to get through a guarded door, him saying something along the lines of "Um, let us pass" will net him a neat -5 to -10 penalty to his dice roll. You have to roleplay social skills. Otherwise, we might as well be playing a video game.
So only a real life conman can hope to play a face or bluff-y rogue in your games. Good to know. It should be perfectly acceptable to simply state what you want to do. "I'm going to bribe the guard to let us pass" should be plenty sufficient. If you expect every detail to be roleplayed then you need to give equal detail in your GMing and I'd expect multi-paragraphed descriptions for things as simple as walking down the street. Not reasonable? Neither are your expectations.
Yes ("what I've said"), right that *IS* what *YOU* said, not what he said. You're putting words in his mouth, building a strawman from his not so extreme position.
Go ahead, find where he said "All people who are attractive must have commanding presences, and vice versa (ugly people never have a naturally commanding presence)". Those are your words, not his.
No - I'm saying that a person with a low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description.
His words. Exactly quoted.
What Charisma governs:
"Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance."
Please, tell me how you can interpret that in any other way?
This was not complicated. I would hope you could make that connection just as easily.
It just doesn't make sense that a 5 CHA is beautiful, or that a 20 CHA is repulsive. Once you've pegged to a extreme, then that's pretty much how it has to be. You chose that extreme, after all.
However, this is slightly irrelevant now. I went in the Ask JJ thread and, well, asked James Jacobs.
Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description; that's why we included those things in that description.
You can have a hideous looking person with a high charisma, and a beautiful person who doesn't have a particularly powerful personality; in both cases their high charisma is going to inspire fans and followers. You see this all the time in movie stars. That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma... but honestly? A potent appearance (be it beauty or ugliness) is ENHANCED by a high Charisma. Two identical twins with identical appearances don't have exactly the same Charismas... and the one with the higher score will be regarded as the uglier/more beautiful of the two.
Other stats don't really have this going on, really.
What I gather from this: Cha affects your appearance. It does NOT affect whether you are beautiful or ugly, just how INTENSE your appearance is.
A creature with 5 Cha can be quite pretty, but not very striking (the "Girl next door" look, attractive but not supermodel sexy) and a creature with 30 Cha may look like H.P. Lovecraft's worst nightmares, and that'll stick in your head FOREVER.
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Sorry, but if the player is trying to get through a guarded door, him saying something along the lines of "Um, let us pass" will net him a neat -5 to -10 penalty to his dice roll. You have to roleplay social skills. Otherwise, we might as well be playing a video game.So only a real life conman can hope to play a face or bluff-y rogue in your games. Good to know. It should be perfectly acceptable to simply state what you want to do. "I'm going to bribe the guard to let us pass" should be plenty sufficient. If you expect every detail to be roleplayed then you need to give equal detail in your GMing and I'd expect multi-paragraphed descriptions for things as simple as walking down the street. Not reasonable? Neither are your expectations.
"I'm gonna bribe the guard"<Diceroll> is not roleplay. It's stating an action.
"Hey, you know, i really want to take a gander at the pretty princess, i swear on my mother's grave that i will make no mischief. Also, here's something for your trouble"<Diceroll> is roleplay.
I'm saddened to think that there exist people who say that stating actions is roleplay.
Also, i can give multi paragraphed descriptions of everything that is happening around the PCs at the drop of a hat.
Also, I always give detailed descriptions of stuff to players.
Sometimes I don't, but sometimes less is more.
I, however ALWAYS roleplay EVERY NPC they come across.
If what you say is so, that could be different. My play experience often wanes between the worlds, and, honestly, some nights I just don't have the energy to completely roleplay my characters.
His words. Exactly quoted.
That is what I said. If you have a 5 charisma, you can't tweak one of the 4 aspects of charisma into a positive.
That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma... but honestly? A potent appearance (be it beauty or ugliness) is ENHANCED by a high Charisma.
Sounds like a very wishy-washy answer that avoids directly answering the question. A hideous demon with a high charisma doesn't strike me as a problem; among that type of demon, that particular demon's appearance would be greater than his peers.
Much in the same way that an orc with a high charisma will be more attractive by orc standards, a demon would be the same way. If you only think of it from human standards, then it will fall apart quickly.
James Jacobs can do what he likes at his table, at my table, you can't have a 5 charisma and have a positive appearance.
James Jacobs can do what he likes at his table, at my table, you can't have a 5 charisma and have a positive appearance.
As long as you understand that both in the art and by the post of an employee, that's just your table.
It's not quite support of my position, but it IMO knocks a leg out from under yours at least, combined with everything else.
James Jacobs can do what he likes at his table, at my table, you can't have a 5 charisma and have a positive appearance.
This Dhampir Anime Girl has a 5 Charisma
different societies have completely different standards for what qualifies as an attractive appearance. even different subcultures within a society have different appearances
as i said, the physical cosmetic facets of one's appearance, should be based upon their physical stats, and we should completely ignore localized standards of beauty known to be modern
i typically go for features way too niche to be considered widely attractive
However, this is slightly irrelevant now. I went in the Ask JJ thread and, well, asked James Jacobs.
...Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description; that's why we included those things in that description.
You can have a hideous looking person with a high charisma, and a beautiful person who doesn't have a particularly powerful personality; in both cases their high charisma is going to inspire fans and followers. You see this all the time in movie stars. That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma... but honestly? A potent appearance (be it beauty or ugliness) is ENHANCED by a high Charisma. Two
Ok. Hmmm.
James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
To be fair, there was a bit of that quote that was cut out.
That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma
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However, this is slightly irrelevant now. I went in the Ask JJ thread and, well, asked James Jacobs.
...Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description; that's why we included those things in that description.
You can have a hideous looking person with a high charisma, and a beautiful person who doesn't have a particularly powerful personality; in both cases their high charisma is going to inspire fans and followers. You see this all the time in movie stars. That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma... but honestly? A potent appearance (be it beauty or ugliness) is ENHANCED by a high Charisma. Two
Ok. Hmmm.
James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize? is it something setting specific? or is it something pulled from the modern world?
can you explain what specific cosmetic qualities you bestow to a higher charisma?
can you explain what specific cosmetic qualities you bestow to a higher charisma?
How much charisma do I need to get a tattoo? Does it lower or increase it? How about piercings? You know what, I'm just going to buy a really nice hat.
James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
To be fair, there was a bit of that quote that was cut out.
That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma
No one here said physical appearance is set in stone by Charisma. We said it's one aspect of Charisma. Which is what JJ said. PA affects CHA, CHA effects PA. As I said "The fluff has to be somewhat based upon the stats...". I even gave a example of a 10 CHA having a 13 PA. The two are not in lockstep, but one effects the other, you can't ignore the stat when setting the fluff.
PA affects CHA, CHA effects PA.
Did you mean to do that?
Also, what does Peano arithmetic have to do with any of this?
No one here said physical appearance is set in stone by Charisma. We said it's one aspect of Charisma. Which is what JJ said. PA affects CHA, CHA effects PA. As I said "The fluff has to be somewhat based upon the stats...". I even gave a example of a 10 CHA having a 13 PA. The two are not in lockstep, but one effects the other, you can't ignore the stat when setting the fluff.James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
To be fair, there was a bit of that quote that was cut out.
That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma
Well, the important part was determined, not so much that it was set in stone.
can you explain what specific cosmetic qualities you bestow to a higher charisma?
Judging by how many likes it got in the 'shun your fellow gamers' threads low charisma means fat and smelly. Mammy Graul would be a good place to check to see if that's accurate or not.
Either she has a low charisma from being fat and smelly or she's got a high charisma from 'whale o' me nightmares'
For reference: Turns out the reality is niether... Mammy Graul's charisma is in fact 10. Both her 'Leadership' and her 'Beauty' are considered.... Average? Not by a long road.. But the 'potency' of her leadership and appearance are... Average...
So indeed her leadership and appearance may make my eyes and ears want to run through the back of my skull screaming into the night... the 'potency' of her presence and appearance is considered relatively low... which... compared to cthulhu... is an arguable spectrum.
In this case charisma score is what determines whether mammy graul is a 'whale of me nightmares cthulhu type' or simply 'pearl from the blade movies type'... Despite being the kind of thing that would haunt my eyes if I ever saw her in real life, to heroes with stronger stomachs she's not 'that which cannot be unseen' so much as she is 'who pooped in the hallway and then put it in a dress'
PA affects CHA, CHA effects PA.Did you mean to do that?
Also, what does Peano arithmetic have to do with any of this?
PA = Personal Appearance.
before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize?
A very basic one. If your PC's charisma is average, your PC is of average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is below average, your PC is of below average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is above average, your PC is of above average attractiveness.
How exactly you want to make your character fit their attractiveness level is up to you, but you can't ignore it. Your character can't have a 5 charisma (far below average attractiveness) and you describe him/her as beautiful.
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Yes. If your charisma is 10 your character looks as cute as mammy graul and if your charisma is 34 your lolita is as adorable as cthulhu... Nymphs can make you go blind with beauty at CHA 25 but they aint got nothing on cthulhu in spandex and leg warmers. He's a maniac.. Maniac on the floor.
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Ahahahaha. I was waiting for someone to bring up Mammy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Mammy actually have a fairly high charisma? And let's face it. There are balor demons more attractive than that... thing. That being said, there are also more female NPCs than just Amiri with low charisma and plenty of good looks. If people want to require that your character's appearance perfectly match its stats at their table, that's fine. The problem is that some people have attempted to imply low CHA = hideous is how it is in the rules as well. Luckily, we now have a staffer saying otherwise.
However, this is slightly irrelevant now. I went in the Ask JJ thread and, well, asked James Jacobs.
...Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description; that's why we included those things in that description.
You can have a hideous looking person with a high charisma, and a beautiful person who doesn't have a particularly powerful personality; in both cases their high charisma is going to inspire fans and followers. You see this all the time in movie stars. That said, physical appearance is really NOT determined or set in stone by Charisma... but honestly? A potent appearance (be it beauty or ugliness) is ENHANCED by a high Charisma. Two
Ok. Hmmm.
James Jacobs: "Charisma affects every aspect in its stat description..."
Tormskull :"...low charisma must reflect that in all quarters of the description."
Seems like JJ and Tormskull are on the same page here.
Reading beyond the first line is helpful.
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In the one scenario were I've ever seen the 6 attributes chopped in half in this way (what was it... advanced player options: skills and powers in 2e?) they allowed the split, but established limits to the spread of 2 up, 2 down.
That's not exactly how it worked (but it's close); here's a snippet of what the book said...
To determine a character’s subabilities, simply double the score of the parent ability (Strength, Wisdom, etc.) and divide that total between the subabilities. The scores for the two subabilities must be within four points of each other...
Note that it says that the scores have to be within four points of each other, and NOT the parent ability (the text then went on to state that no subability could be lower than 3 or higher than 18 before racial adjustments).
before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize?A very basic one. If your PC's charisma is average, your PC is of average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is below average, your PC is of below average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is above average, your PC is of above average attractiveness.
How exactly you want to make your character fit their attractiveness level is up to you, but you can't ignore it. Your character can't have a 5 charisma (far below average attractiveness) and you describe him/her as beautiful.
what charisma score would you force her to have?
i used these all on relatively low or mediocre charisma characters. and some were even recycled for different characters.
Yes. If your charisma is 10 your character looks as cute as mammy graul
Mammy is a Ogrekin, and they may have an entirely different idea of what is "cute".
Umbriere; sorry, I don't speak Anime. To me, anyone with eyes that HUGE and mouth that small is some sort of weird inhuman oddity.
Mind you, I have see a human female dressed as #1, and she was pretty hot. But her eyes were pretty normal sized.
Yes. If your charisma is 10 your character looks as cute as mammy graulMammy is a Ogrekin, and they may have an entirely different idea of what is "cute".
So if they reincarnate their charisma changes? Or do they just fit into a new form based on their current charisma? Or is it all force of personality?
You know what, let me just use my hat of disguise to incrase my charisma. Our party sorc has 22 right? I think I'll look like her.
before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize?A very basic one. If your PC's charisma is average, your PC is of average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is below average, your PC is of below average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is above average, your PC is of above average attractiveness.
How exactly you want to make your character fit their attractiveness level is up to you, but you can't ignore it. Your character can't have a 5 charisma (far below average attractiveness) and you describe him/her as beautiful.
what charisma score would you force her to have?
i used these all on relatively low or mediocre charisma characters. and some were even recycled for different characters.
Umbriere could you stop with the broken links to images?
Umbriere could you stop with the broken links to images?before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize?A very basic one. If your PC's charisma is average, your PC is of average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is below average, your PC is of below average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is above average, your PC is of above average attractiveness.
How exactly you want to make your character fit their attractiveness level is up to you, but you can't ignore it. Your character can't have a 5 charisma (far below average attractiveness) and you describe him/her as beautiful.
what charisma score would you force her to have?
i used these all on relatively low or mediocre charisma characters. and some were even recycled for different characters.
to me. the links work just fine
i just wanted a particular charisma rating for the 5 anime girls i linked by Tormsskull, DrDeth, and the rest of the Charisma = Appearance Crowd.
i have used them all for character appearances, not a single one of which, was purely human.
it took me a lot of repeated searching to find SFW images of each one.
before we determine whether or not a character looks too attractive for their score at your table, what standards of beauty does your group utilize?A very basic one. If your PC's charisma is average, your PC is of average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is below average, your PC is of below average attractiveness. If your PC's charisma is above average, your PC is of above average attractiveness.
How exactly you want to make your character fit their attractiveness level is up to you, but you can't ignore it. Your character can't have a 5 charisma (far below average attractiveness) and you describe him/her as beautiful.
what charisma score would you force her to have?
i used these all on relatively low or mediocre charisma characters. and some were even recycled for different characters.
I have a hard time attaching physical beauty to anime characters as they are too far to simplistic and abstracted from humanity. All the faces look the same to me.
-MD
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As the sort of person who does nerdy things like play tabletop roleplaying games, I'd like to take this moment to let everyone know that I am better than those double nerds who watch anime. Let's ostracize them. And take their lunch money. /sarcasm
i play tabletop roleplaying games, watch anime, read manga, read derivative works from amateur authors, play a handful of popular MMOs, engage in online freeform RP, and even play console RPGs. i try to avoid ostracizing people due to their hobbies, because i likely engage in their hobby too.
Anime = zero comeliness and negative charisma.
In the one scenario were I've ever seen the 6 attributes chopped in half in this way (what was it... advanced player options: skills and powers in 2e?) they allowed the split, but established limits to the spread of 2 up, 2 down.That's not exactly how it worked (but it's close); here's a snippet of what the book said...
To determine a character’s subabilities, simply double the score of the parent ability (Strength, Wisdom, etc.) and divide that total between the subabilities. The scores for the two subabilities must be within four points of each other...Note that it says that the scores have to be within four points of each other, and NOT the parent ability (the text then went on to state that no subability could be lower than 3 or higher than 18 before racial adjustments).
Ah, so if you happened to roll an 18, you could then split it into a 14/18 but not an 18/22. I get it.
It's been a while and a lot of my 2e books are packed away so I wasn't able to pull the book out.
I have a hard time attaching physical beauty to anime characters as they are too far to simplistic and abstracted from humanity. All the faces look the same to me.
-MD
Without touching on whether anime is or isn't cool, I am not sure that using them as an example fits. The appearance of the character is in many cases to draw in certain viewers and make sure they have an enjoyable time. This goes along with exploding clothes and whatnot. They'd be drawn attractively (if you go for cartoon women or men) regardless of the personality they had.
I have a hard time attaching physical beauty to anime characters as they are too far to simplistic and abstracted from humanity. All the faces look the same to me.
-MD
Without touching on whether anime is or isn't cool, I am not sure that using them as an example fits. The appearance of the character is in many cases to draw in certain viewers and make sure they have an enjoyable time. This goes along with exploding clothes and whatnot. They'd be drawn attractively (if you go for cartoon women or men) regardless of the personality they had.
a lot of fictional mediums, from tabletop RPG hardcovers, to Novel covers and even films, tailor the appearance and artwork of their characters to appeal to the masses that engage in the practice and frequently buy their works.
it's not just anime. it's a standard marketing gimmick. nobody wants to buy a book featuring an image of bucktooth bill the one eyed, peg legged, hook handed adventurer with syphilis and hemophilia and nobody wants to play as such in your typical group. unless the campaign were clearly a parody.
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a lot of fictional mediums, from tabletop RPG hardcovers, to Novel covers and even films, tailor the appearance and artwork of their characters to appeal to the masses that engage in the practice and frequently buy their works.
it's not just anime. it's a standard marketing gimmick. nobody wants to buy a book featuring an image of bucktooth bill the one eyed, peg legged, hook handed adventurer with syphilis and hemophilia and nobody wants to play as such in your typical group. unless the campaign were clearly a parody.
There are occasionally stand outs. The main character of Nier was horribly defaced and scarred, which is weird because its a JRPG and they tend to be Bishie.(ofc, he was made for western audiences while his bishie clone from Replica was for eastern. Cool game though imo)
That said, when I play RPGs I like to customize the characters. Not a big fan of being told "you don't have the charisma for that!" or something similar when I think otherwise. Or worse, when people make up things about your character. Its why I stopped sharing character statistics with other players.
One thing I found when I was DMing 3.5E: A rogue optimized for skills can be incredibly, incredibly deadly.
How? They disarm the traps, party lures the enemy right to where the trap would spring, rogue rearms and sets off the trap. In Pathfinder, I suspect they'd just bypass it and then lure enemies straight into it.
A gelatinous cube tends not to be as much of a threat after it's fallen down a pit trap, for example.
a lot of fictional mediums, from tabletop RPG hardcovers, to Novel covers and even films, tailor the appearance and artwork of their characters to appeal to the masses that engage in the practice and frequently buy their works.
it's not just anime. it's a standard marketing gimmick. nobody wants to buy a book featuring an image of bucktooth bill the one eyed, peg legged, hook handed adventurer with syphilis and hemophilia and nobody wants to play as such in your typical group. unless the campaign were clearly a parody.
There are occasionally stand outs. The main character of Nier was horribly defaced and scarred, which is weird because its a JRPG and they tend to be Bishie.(ofc, he was made for western audiences while his bishie clone from Replica was for eastern. Cool game though imo)
That said, when I play RPGs I like to customize the characters. Not a big fan of being told "you don't have the charisma for that!" or something similar when I think otherwise. Or worse, when people make up things about your character. Its why I stopped sharing character statistics with other players.
i agree with this wholeheartedly
when asked statistics and the DM and/or players make up assumptions or details about my characters, like, "your mother was a nymph and you have an 18 charisma? you must be pretty well endowed!" or "there is no way your 20 charisma Suli Oracle can look like a badly scarred and defaced masculine individual, the sheet says it is a female and it has a 20 charisma." or "no way your desert bandit could still have a 16 charisma, after he survived being burned alive in fire and oil."
the truth was, the Half Nymph was a petite framed and adorable flattie whom inspired the protective big brother instinct in others
the Suli was raised by orcs, and was highly intimidating from her badly scarred and masculine appearance, seeing herself as equal to any male
the male desert bandit was an unattractive but powerfully motivated, confident and determined individual with suicidal levels of resolve
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After 30 years of gaming in a countless number of varied systems...
I've been to the very edges of space and time itself and every point in between.
My characters have never met a fat elf.
Ever.
I'd rather have the characterization than try and enforced charisma = appearance personally. Also has an unfortunate side effect of all your charisma based classes becoming extremely good looking and most of the other classes suddenly becoming horribly ugly.
"Which one do you think is the paladin?"
"I think its the guy in plate and long blonde hair in the middle."
"What makes you say that?"
"He's the only one not covered in crap."
After 30 years of gaming in a countless number of varied systems...
My characters have never met a fat elf.
Ever.
Supposedly they can't grow beards either. Never got that. I think there's a secret hatred of beards. I once made a slobbish elf NPC just to for entertainment because my GM at the time thought Elves were all snooty and perfect.