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As he watched the giants march ever closer over the hill, the Barbarian prayed to Gorum for strength in battle. Seeing his faith, Gorum granted him his blessing, and the benefits of the Deadly Jaugernaut spell.
This is the idea behind this new skill. Characters who otherwise wouldn't have access to divine spells can pray to their deities for certain appropriate blessings.
I'm unsure how exactly I'd like the skill to work, but here's my idea so far.
Prayer (Wis) is a class skill to all divine casters.
Characters can use this skill to cast certain divine spells appropriate to their deity, as prayers. These prayers do not need to be prepared or learned as a divine caster's spells. The prayer's level is the same as the equivalent divine spell level. If the spell is a different level for different divine caster classes, the lowest level counts as the prayer level.
Save DC of prayers is 10 + prayer level + Wis.
The character must beat a DC of 15 + 2 x prayer level, or there is no effect.
Concentration checks do not apply to spells cast as prayers, and neither does Arcane Spell Failure chance.
The prayer's level can't be more than 1/4 the character's level.
The caster level of the prayer is 1/2 character level.
Characters gain "prayer points" equal to the number of ranks in this skill.
Using this skill consumes a number of prayer points equal to the level of the prayer (minimum 1), even if it fails.
Prayer points are regained after one hour spent in reverence and prayer, or less time at an appropriate altar or with the aid of a divine caster of your deity. Divine casters regain prayer points when preparing their spells, without needing to spend extra time.
Which spells can be cast as prayers depends on the character's deity, and would be a limited list, kind of like a domain spell list. I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to decide which spells can and can't be accessed with this skill, except by reading up on the PC's diety, and judging if the spell is appropriate. Not every deity is going to grant you Summon Monster and Cure Wounds spells, for example.
The prayer doesn't even have to be limited to a specific spell. It could be something like, "I'm praying I don't trigger any traps on this lock" and the DM could grant them a bonus depending the level of the prayer, which is equal to the number of prayer points spent. These sorts of non spell prayers are typically a standard action with a rounds/caster level duration, like most spells, but could be different at DM's discretion.
Questions, Comments, Suggestions?
This seems overpowered for a skill, and I don't like the fact that a skill can grant you magical spells. That's not what skills do.
I do see a use for these rules. If you wanted to start a campaign setting where EVERY character can ask his god for help, these rules would be a good start.
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You can be, like, in this setting, the gods are more involved in everyone's lives. Everyone gets X amount of prayer points. Dependent on their Wisdom.
That would be cool.
This seems overpowered for a skill, and I don't like the fact that a skill can grant you magical spells. That's not what skills do.
What does Use Magic Device do then?
I think the rules I've come up with quite reasonably prevent this skill from being over powered. If you think I'm wrong, then perhaps you could come up with some more balanced rules, or explain why the idea won't work.
I do see a use for these rules. If you wanted to start a campaign setting where EVERY character can ask his god for help, these rules would be a good start.
That's pretty much what I'm after. Divine casters aren't the only ones who worship gods, so everyone should be able to ask their god for help, if they invest their time and effort into prayerful worship. This would be a good skill for any religious character.
The Prayer takes 1 round per level of desired effect
Pretty much what I was about to suggest. "Praying time" (i.e. casting time) should be longer - maybe start at 1 minute, but reduceable by increasing the DC. Or perhaps meeting the DC takes 1 minute, reduced by 1 per point over (minimum "1 round"). Double time if moving and praying.
A powerful cleric might manage to cast a breath of life in time with a DC 34 prayer check [15 + 2*5 (level) + 9 (reduce time to 1 round)].
I could see prayer points being per level instead of per day, if you gave this as free instead of spending skill points.
"Choose one domain of your god" sounds like a good starting point. I do think classes with the Aura class feature (like Clerics and Paladins) should be able to use this for any spell on their list, or perhaps any domain spell.
The Prayer takes 1 round per level of desired effectPretty much what I was about to suggest. "Praying time" (i.e. casting time) should be longer - maybe start at 1 minute, but reduceable by increasing the DC. Or perhaps meeting the DC takes 1 minute, reduced by 1 per point over (minimum "1 round"). Double time if moving and praying.
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't see why they should take longer to cast, especially up to a minute! The duration is already shortened because most spells last rounds/caster level and prayers have 1/2 caster level. The DC is also pretty hard to hit, so it's not easy to make every prayer attempt successful unless you're a divine caster already, and/or invest in feats or magical items to boost your prayer modifier.
If you get ambushed by a gang of orcs, you might want to pray for your god's blessing, but you're not going to waste 10 rounds doing it. Spells already have their effects balanced to their casting times, so I see little reason to change that, especially when prayer attempts can be failed.
Example
Common soldier praying as a battle is about to begin, might get bless spell with a DC 17 prayer check after one minute, lasting for one minute.A powerful cleric might manage to cast a breath of life in time with a DC 34 prayer check [15 + 2*5 (level) + 9 (reduce time to 1 round)].
How often do you know that you're going to have to fight in approximately 2 minutes? You rarely have 1 minute to prepare, and still be able to benefit from that spell 1 minute later. Spells that take up to a minute to cast either last for hours, or are very powerful.
By that rule you'd pretty much have to be a dedicated divine caster to benefit from prayers, which rather defeats the point.
I could see prayer points being per level instead of per day, if you gave this as free instead of spending skill points.
"Choose one domain of your god" sounds like a good starting point. I do think classes with the Aura class feature (like Clerics and Paladins) should be able to use this for any spell on their list, or perhaps any domain spell.
The limited spells and effects you could get from prayers would be similar to a domain spell list, but just having each player pick a domain of their god wouldn't quite work. You'd only get 9 spells, four of which are of spell level 6+ (never accessible by my 1/4 char level rule) and the option of praying for something that isn't a spell wouldn't really make sense. I think it's better for the characters to have access to many low level spells and effects that fit a similar theme than to gain one specific spell of each level, all the way up to 9th.
This skill would already give divine spell casters access to more low level spells per day. I don't think it should let them cast extra high level spells as well.
What does Use Magic Device do then?
UMD requires a scroll, wand, or other such item to activate. That requires a monetary investment (or treasure find) before you can use the skill, and even then the kinds of effects you can reproduce are limited by the items currently in your possession. The skill you've created is far broader, replicating a large list of spells with no forethought or investment required. It can also be used repeatedly throughout the day with no additional cost.
What you've done here is really weird. It uses skill ranks like a skill, is dependent on class level like a class feature (or possibly a feat), and behaves more like a magic item. I'm also concerned that this is a bit of an unnecessary buff to divine casters, and also favors the wisdom-based ones over the charisma-based ones.
Spellcasters can already do something similar to your "prayer" skill by investing cash in scroll and wands, and unless the player in question is inexperienced or a cheapskate that's a fairly normal kind of item to have in your inventory. It's an intentional counter-balance; if you want to stretch your spells-per-day allotment (either for more variety or more castings) you need to shell out the cash to do so. A little number crunching indicates a 4th level Cleric with maxed ranks in this skill should be able to handle an average of 3 CLW's per hour via prayers. This is completely out of line when compared to the "heal" skill and what it can do, and more comparable to magic items.
My suggestion is to forget the skill and create an item for this purposes. It should have a cost-per-use associated with it to keep it balanced (probably in the form of offerings during the "recharge" process), and it's cost-per-use should be roughly on par with a wand. The costing formula per charge for a wand is spell-level*caster-level*15
The Prayer takes 1 round per level of desired effectPretty much what I was about to suggest. "Praying time" (i.e. casting time) should be longer - maybe start at 1 minute, but reduceable by increasing the DC. Or perhaps meeting the DC takes 1 minute, reduced by 1 per point over (minimum "1 round"). Double time if moving and praying.I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't see why they should take longer to cast, especially up to a minute! The duration is already shortened because most spells last rounds/caster level and prayers have 1/2 caster level. The DC is also pretty hard to hit, so it's not easy to make every prayer attempt successful unless you're a divine caster already, and/or invest in feats or magical items to boost your prayer modifier.
If you get ambushed by a gang of orcs, you might want to pray for your god's blessing, but you're not going to waste 10 rounds doing it. Spells already have their effects balanced to their casting times, so I see little reason to change that, especially when prayer attempts can be failed.
A magical item that boosts prayer? That sounds a little odd, even if that is how it apparently works in the real world....
I'm not for a prayer skill because that gives those who pray an inherent advantage over those who don't in a much different capacity than those who use disable device over those who don't.
What does Use Magic Device do then?UMD requires a scroll, wand, or other such item to activate. That requires a monetary investment (or treasure find) before you can use the skill, and even then the kinds of effects you can reproduce are limited by the items currently in your possession. The skill you've created is far broader, replicating a large list of spells with no forethought or investment required. It can also be used repeatedly throughout the day with no additional cost.
What you've done here is really weird. It uses skill ranks like a skill, is dependent on class level like a class feature (or possibly a feat), and behaves more like a magic item. I'm also concerned that this is a bit of an unnecessary buff to divine casters, and also favors the wisdom-based ones over the charisma-based ones.
Spellcasters can already do something similar to your "prayer" skill by investing cash in scroll and wands, and unless the player in question is inexperienced or a cheapskate that's a fairly normal kind of item to have in your inventory. It's an intentional counter-balance; if you want to stretch your spells-per-day allotment (either for more variety or more castings) you need to shell out the cash to do so. A little number crunching indicates a 4th level Cleric with maxed ranks in this skill should be able to handle an average of 3 CLW's per hour via prayers. This is completely out of line when compared to the "heal" skill and what it can do, and more comparable to magic items.
My suggestion is to forget the skill and create an item for this purposes. It should have a cost-per-use associated with it to keep it balanced (probably in the form of offerings during the "recharge" process), and it's cost-per-use should be roughly on par with a wand. The costing formula per charge for a wand is spell-level*caster-level*15
Thanks for the feedback.
However, I think UMD is much more versatile than Prayer. You can get wands/scrolls for any arcane or divine spell at any level, while prayer would only apply to certain divine spells, and the 1-4 level spells that prayers can get you would be cheap as wands or scrolls anyway. You can only pray as many times per day as you can afford with your prayer points. One change I might make is to have prayers cost twice as many points as prayer level instead, to help balance it out, reducing possible prayers per day.
A magical item that boosts prayer? That sounds a little odd, even if that is how it apparently works in the real world....
I'm not for a prayer skill because that gives those who pray an inherent advantage over those who don't in a much different capacity than those who use disable device over those who don't.
You can create magical items that boost any skill. I don't see why this skill should be any different in that respect.
Each skill has its place, and some are always going to be more useful than others. Comparing the advantages of prayer to disable divice is like comparing apples and oranges. For the best comparison, you should probably take a look at Use Magic Device and tell me why a skill that gives any player access to spells is a bad idea.
However, I think UMD is much more versatile than Prayer. You can get wands/scrolls for any arcane or divine spell at any level, while prayer would only apply to certain divine spells
UMD, in and of itself, gives you access to nothing. If you want a spell, you need to pay for it ahead of time in either scroll or wand form. Scrolls can be bought individually and allow you to carry a "library" of utility spells, but if used frequently then those costs will rack up. Wands must be bought with 50 charges and as a result have a very substantial up-front cost. UMD is expensive, and glossing over this fact is ignoring its primary restriction.
and the 1-4 level spells that prayers can get you would be cheap as wands or scrolls anyway.
One scroll is cheap, but if you use them on a daily basis then you'll quickly bankrupt yourself. If you want more than one type of wand, you have to sink a big chunk of your total wealth to have that, and they aren't unlimited use either. The key advantage of your prayer system is that it can be used regularly at no cost, allowing them to be part of the daily routine and stretching spells per day well beyond their normal limitations.
You can only pray as many times per day as you can afford with your prayer points
The waking day is 16 hours long. Most of that is going to be down-time that the divine caster can spend in a cycle of using and restoring prayer points. Even with the trivial case of cure spells, this is hundreds of GP worth of free healing every day. On top of this, the caster can use a few points in the middle of the adventuring day to supplement his spells per day. A 4th level cleric gets about 10 spell slots total. Giving him even a single extra spell for free is a big deal.
If you're absolutely adamant you do not want to introduce a cost to this, then prayer points will need to be far more limited. A mere 1 hour of downtime to restore them is insufficient. Refreshing your prayer points should be a once-per-week event. If it's going to be daily, then some form of limitation or price is necessary. Having any spells granted by prayers count against your next day's spell slot allotment would be one possible solution.
Initially, the idea didn't even involve spells. The skill was just suppose to let players pray to their gods for appropriate blessings. I figured most of the blessings that you might pray for could be duplicated by divine spells, so that became an easy way to quantify the power and DC of prayers.
If you're absolutely adamant you do not want to introduce a cost to this, then prayer points will need to be far more limited. A mere 1 hour of downtime to restore them is insufficient. Refreshing your prayer points should be a once-per-week event. If it's going to be daily, then some form of limitation or price is necessary. Having any spells granted by prayers count against your next day's spell slot allotment would be one possible solution.
Maybe there could be some cost for prayers, but I'd like to avoid that extra complication. I'll agree that it should probably take longer to recharge prayer points. I also kind of like the idea of a once per week event, except for the extra book keeping that that would require. I will probably make prayers cost twice as much, as the current rules seem to offer too many prayers per day.
As an add-on for a specific campaign it would work pretty well (The Gods Walk Among Us, that kind of thing).
For general use in regular Pathfinder, I'd say nope, as it kind of blows past any other skill.
Now, if you required a feat chain that added such a skill, I could see that work "in any given setting".
Actually, a feat being a gateway into this skill wouldn't be half bad. First feat: choose a deity, get the skill and access to minor buffs (adding 1d6 to a check or something). Further feat tree expands the benefits (adding domain spells casting and domain abilities possibly). Perhaps even a Commune or somesuch ability, seems appropriate (and typically what people pray for). Perhaps the later feat would allow Atonement stuff too.
*Edit*
Overall, not a half-bad idea.
I had thoughts for making a "ritual"-style magic gamerule (so you did skill checks and spent money on components and you could reproduce a spell effect without needing to be an actual spellcaster... the implication that it would be commonplace for commoners doing simple ones, etc).
Prayers like this seem like the nice flipside to that coin.. praying for a benefit over doing ritual magic.
Unearthed Arcana had something like this with Incantations (link). Might want to mine that for ideas too.
We also do this, as a full-round action a player can pray to a god, and say the prayer out-loud, if it's good I'd grant him a buff or a round or two. Like when guys had to face a few incorporeals and a few of them had no other way to deal damage to the tings, except via asking their gods for some help.
Making this a skill is tricky though...
We used something similar a few years ago.in a 3.5 campaign that was heavy on religion but had no divine casters and religion was more vague in terms of power. I dont have the rules anymore, but from i remember:
It ws not a skill. We had a piety stat that you used instead. Max piety was equal to double level. Praying for aid was a Piety check, DC somewhere around 10 irc. For every 2 points you beat the DC you got one caster levels worth of aid, of a spell no higher than half caster level - so the DC to get for example Cure Moderate Wounds was 18. You got a bonus on the check if it was for something the god had great interest in. Whenever you got aid you lost a number of piety equal to caster level of aid gined. The player did not directly choose spell effect, the GM did. You also lost a point if you failed the check.
Regaining piety ws done through conversion and following holy rites. Iirc, every year of casual followibg or every month of keeping to strict religious doctrines you got to make a d20 roll and if you rolled above your piety you regained one point. Converting people also allowed you to make checks. I remember i played a monk of a monotheistic religion, so i was pretty tied up in the system. Always spread the word of the Shining Beacon, followed a strictly vegan diet and never hurt birds under any circumstances (they where believed to be the step between humans and angels).
The system worked quite well, but it was in a low-divine intervention game, so it might be different if one just wants to tack on a "everyone is a cleric"-feel to an existing game.
But making it a skill makes it feel like youre haggling with your god over what power to get, rather than being blessed because you're devout.
It does seem to do a bit much for a skill. Sure UMD also allows you to cast spells but you still need the expensive device you want to use.
A few things I would augment: Make the caster level 1/2 rank, not 1/2 character level
Make the casting time 1 round per prayer level, or longer if the spell has a longer casting time.
Clarify that you still need to offer the necessary material components
I think limiting the prayer ability to the deity's domains would be a good way to keep the skill in check a bit.
Seems like this would more appropriately be a feat, not a skill. You could still have a skill check to make it work -- I'd use Knowledge (Religion) -- but to actually gain the ability to do cool things not covered by the rules is pretty much the definition of what the feat system is for.
Not to mention the fact that, if it's a separate skill, in practice the only people who use it will be rogues (who have the skill points to spare, but don't get any spells or real combat prowess). Whereas what rogues don't have a lot of are feats.
A magical item that boosts prayer? That sounds a little odd, even if that is how it apparently works in the real world....
I'm not for a prayer skill because that gives those who pray an inherent advantage over those who don't in a much different capacity than those who use disable device over those who don't.
You can create magical items that boost any skill. I don't see why this skill should be any different in that respect.
Each skill has its place, and some are always going to be more useful than others. Comparing the advantages of prayer to disable divice is like comparing apples and oranges. For the best comparison, you should probably take a look at Use Magic Device and tell me why a skill that gives any player access to spells is a bad idea.
Because UMD doesn't penalize a player for their roleplaying choice of faith.
I tried something sort of like this in 2nd edition AD&D. We spent the round praying for help, and rolled percentile dice with a chance equal to our Wisdom score. I think it was doubled for Clerics, but maybe it just added the Cleric level. Either way, there are times where we really were desperate. HELP! Yeah, sometimes it was a bit far-fetched but it was a freaking miracle. The result depended on the GM's interpretation. A buff was one way, but getting out of the situation had also helped a few times, as did protection from the oncoming disastrous damage.
If you are using Hero Points, I might suggest that you spend one before making a roll. I would base it on character level. maybe a bonus from Wisdom (character is devout) and Charisma (your god loves you).
My recommendation is to have the effect based on the needs of the situation. Yeah, it can be more powerful than a spell in some ways, but it is also more fickle (especially if you cannot normally boost it, like a skill).
Having seen it work just fine in game, I am fond of it. It also gives more reason for characters to actually follow a deity, and makes Divine-classed characters a bit cooler and stylish.
Over the years, during occasional dire circumstances, I've allowed players to have their characters mutter prayers and set arbitrary (high) target numbers to see if their deities heard and would respond. Interestingly, the rolls succeeded more often than they failed. It was always dramatic and fun when this sort of thing happened. Like trying to nail the most critical of critical hits.
For awhile, we were running a campaign where all the deities were Greek, Egyptian and Norse. The paladin's god was Athena. She got involved quite often. The Greek gods made appearances all throughout their myths, so we did likewise. It was actually a cool change of pace from the gods-are-invisible style most of us usually use.
Here's a new idea for how this could work. These changes give prayer less versatility, because characters can't be sure what they're going to get. It's less like casting free spells, and more like praying for divine intervention, as intended.
Prayer points can be restored each day through 1 hour of worship, just as described in my original rules.
Attempts to restore points multiple times in the same day is difficult, and requires a wisdom check against DC 10 + current prayer points. If successful, the character regains 1 missing prayer point.
To use prayer points, the PC spends a full round action praying for a blessing from their chosen deity.
The PC can be as vague or specific as they like in their prayer, but specific requests cost more prayer points, and effectively have higher DCs.
The base prayer point cost is 2 x prayer level. Prayer level (equivalent to spell level) still can't be more than 1/4 character level.
Prayers for any blessing cost +0 points
Prayers for a specific type of blessing (self buff, ally buff, enemy debuff, enemy damage, etc) cost +2 spell points
Prayers for a specific spell or effect cost +4 spell points
DC = 15 + prayer points spent
The DM chooses which blessing is granted upon a successful prayer check (or can even roll a random spell if they wish). The spell should ideally be chosen from one of the deity's domains, and the spell level should be appropriate to the number of prayer points the PC spent. The DM is free to come up with their own blessings of similar power if there is no appropriate spell among the deity's domains. The domains are more like guidelines for blessings, than the hard and fast list of options.
For example
Suppose my 10th level monk and his party find themselves up against a room full of ghosts. My monk decides to pray to his god, Erastil, for the power to slay them. I'm only 10th level so I can't pray for more than a 2nd level blessing (1/4 character level). I've got 10 ranks in prayer, and thus 10 prayer points. I spend 4 of them praying for a 2nd level blessing. My request was for a specific kind of blessing (more power) so it costs me 2 more spell point, for a total of 6. This makes the DC 21. I roll an 11 and add my prayer modifier of 13 (10 ranks + 3 wis mod) for a result of 24. Success!
The DM looks at Erastil's domains and sees that the 2nd level spells are Hold Animal, Shield Other, Align Weapon (good), Align Weapon (law), and Barkskin. None of these would give me the power I prayed for, and Ghostbane Dirge would be ideal, but doesn't really fit Erastil's personality. The DM sees that the plant domain gives a power called Wooden Fist which seems appropriate, and grants that effect to my monk as if he was a 5th level cleric for 5 rounds (1/2 character level). I gain +2 damage on my unarmed attacks for 5 rounds.
Alternatively, the DM could have granted me the benefit of a different domain power (like touch of good or touch of law), or made up a different bonus equivalent to a 2nd level spell from a 5th level cleric.
The closest thing to this skill in the core rules is Craft (Alchemy)
With craft (alchemy) you can pre-fabricate items that accomplish affects that approach caster level 1 spells. You can also fabricate poisons.
I stress the word pre-fabricate because what you seem to intend for players to accomplish is for players to spontaneously accomplish magical effects in a pinch.
With craft (alchemy) there is an investiture represented by the cost in gold pieces and time invested in crafting as well.
If you wan this to be a skill, it should have a cost. Praying at temples or at roadside shrines, burning incense or making other sacrifices or preforming works that would please the gods should be how points are accumulated.
Mechanically you could have it work like this:
You use the prayer skill to earn (and thus pay half the cost in gold for) influence capital. You could have influence capital be spent equal to the cost of a potion of the desired divine spell, with a prayer skill check equal to the DC of crafting a potion required to successfully have the prayer take effect.
I would suggest that the influence capital is not spent on a failure. if the check fails, the prayer simply did not reach the deity.
You can adjust the cost in influence capital spent (halve or double the cost) based on how effective prayer is in play.
A feat or trait cost and using the Knowledge (religion) skill to make the prayer mechanic work might be the right opportunity cost, depending on how effective this becomes mechanically.
I had a similar idea and came up with this: basically, at the start of each day, a player can pray for specific "blessings". These blessings are passive, acting all day, and grant subtle bonuses, like a +1 to perception, or a +2 to Slight of Hand, or a +2 against Fear checks. A player can have as many active prayers in a day as they have Wisdom modifiers.
How about Charisma instead? It's how well you can be heard by the gods,not how well you hear them (which is more Wisdom).
It gives Charisma a baseline use outside of skills and class features too, which is a nice change.
How about Charisma instead? It's how well you can be heard by the gods, not how well you hear them (which is more Wisdom).
Hmm... I'm not sure the gods would agree :)
For the OP: you asked me why I suggested longer prayer times. Much like Archomedes, I think giving immediate spontaneous results is a very strong feature. Prayer is contemplation as well as beseechment, so I think it makes sense to need planning, or be more difficult without it.
I was hesitant at first, but I'm leaning towards the idea that characters should have to pay to recharge their prayer points.
If a character wants to have the aid of their god at their disposal, they should be willing to make a sacrifice to them, like a tithe.
To keep it simple, and similar to the price of divine scrolls (on average), I think 100 gp per prayer point worth of incense, herbs, or other sacrifice appropriate to your god is a good number.
With this in place, characters could recharge their prayer points as often as they're willing to pay, and spend the time doing it.
Honestly, it still feels like you're haggling with the god rather than the god hearing the prayers of a faithful.
I think it's much better to make the recharging a _lot_ slower and tied to shown devotion.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.
I agree. Ain't skills all about "realistic" stuff ...except Use Magic Device and stuff ;) Seems silly you'd have gods giving you freebies just for praying for them. Otherwise EVERYONE takes prayer as a skill. Heck I'd take skill focus and whatever it takes to get free spells! Let's not have another Iajutsu Focus!!
Point is. This just seems like you're just trying to turn the cleric class feature of spells --> skill.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.
Simply because any character can worship a god. If their god doesn't have an impact on their lives, why would they worship them?
The difference is that divine casters commit their lives to the faith, and channel the powers of their gods into their works. Prayer just makes the aid of the gods available to any character who chooses to worship them, and to a much lesser degree. Prayer grants access to fewer blessings more slowly than any caster, and the skill check can me failed.
I don't want to take anything away from the divine casters with this. In fact, I'd like for this to help them just as much, if not more than other characters. At the same time though, this can serve as a weaker substitute for a group lacking a divine caster.
For the most part though, I just feel like worshiping a god should have some mechanical purpose for all classes, even if just for certain campaigns.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.I agree. Ain't skills all about "realistic" stuff ...except Use Magic Device and stuff ;) Seems silly you'd have gods giving you freebies just for praying for them. Otherwise EVERYONE takes prayer as a skill. Heck I'd take skill focus and whatever it takes to get free spells! Let's not have another Iajutsu Focus!!
Point is. This just seems like you're just trying to turn the cleric class feature of spells --> skill.
In case you missed it, I posted above that prayer points would require costly rituals to recharge, so the blessings of the gods are hardly freebies.
Also, I'd like for this not to be a gate way to free spells. Spells were just an easy way to quantify blessings and calculate DCs for the mechanics of the skill, and not really part of what I intended. Really, a character can pray for anything appropriate to their god, and make a skill check against a DC based on the power and specifics of their prayer to see if their god favors their request. The DM can get creative and come up with whatever they think is appropriate. Maybe the blessing duplicates a spell, or maybe it doesn't. Even so, it's going to be a less powerful effect than a cleric could give you.
Isn't praying to gods to receive the blessings of spell effects EXACTLY what a divine caster does when they cast a divine spell? Why introduce a new skill something for somethign that already exists.I agree. Ain't skills all about "realistic" stuff ...except Use Magic Device and stuff ;) Seems silly you'd have gods giving you freebies just for praying for them. Otherwise EVERYONE takes prayer as a skill. Heck I'd take skill focus and whatever it takes to get free spells! Let's not have another Iajutsu Focus!!
Point is. This just seems like you're just trying to turn the cleric class feature of spells --> skill.
In case you missed it, I posted above that prayer points would require costly rituals to recharge, so the blessings of the gods are hardly freebies.
Also, I'd like for this not to be a gate way to free spells. Spells were just an easy way to quantify blessings and calculate DCs for the mechanics of the skill, and not really part of what I intended. Really, a character can pray for anything appropriate to their god, and make a skill check against a DC based on the power and specifics of their prayer to see if their god favors their request. The DM can get creative and come up with whatever they think is appropriate. Maybe the blessing duplicates a spell, or maybe it doesn't. Even so, it's going to be a less powerful effect than a cleric could give you.
So what you're saying is the player can go, "I want my god to help me do X, through Y means." And the GM says, "Yes" or "No" depending on a die roll? That's called DM fiat. You don't need a skill for it. Secondly, look at what you're saying and think for a moment. The player characters skill, aka dice roll, dictates a god's reaction. Taking this one step further. You have a character who goes out of his way to belittle all the gods. Yet, this character has maxed out "prayer". He can force gods to come to his aid. Call me crazy, but that is something the "story" should have control over, not an arbitrary skill.
If you want to cast divine spells, there is a mechanic for it. UMD. Or, ask your divine party member.
Lastly, it's a bad idea because it bypasses wealth by level. UMD is directly tied to WBL ensuring that a properly balanced game doesn't have it unbalance things.
Here's what I suggest:
- Feat
- Limit use to 1/day per 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion), to a maximum equal to your Wisdom bonus/day.
- Skill check to gain blessing, limited to the following spells/mechanical effects
--- Easy DC: Guidance, Stabilize, Virtue
--- Moderate DC: Bless, Bane
--- Hard DC: Augury
- Usage: Full-round action. Can be shortened to Standard by increasing DC.