I've created a couple of custom characters and I'd appreciate getting some feedback on them if anyone has the time. I'll create a separate thread for each of them.
This one is a spell caster. I wanted him to cast both divine and arcane, but at the same time be distinct from the other spell casters. A friend of mine who has more experience with RPGs than my almost non-existent experience says I'm thinking of something like a mystic theurge. But I don't know too much about what that means, so this doesn't have to be a mystic theurge. I've only developed one role card at this point.
Some notes to keep in mind: since he casts both types of spells, I need to keep him distinct from Lem. So I split the magic types up over separate base skills. They have a higher bonus (+2) but they'll have to be maintained by adding separate skill feat check boxes. I thought about having both be d8 and the bonuses be +3. If so, I'd probably bump charisma to d10.
I also made his power to add to 1d4 to a check different from Lem's by limiting which kind of card(s) could do it and making it not location specific. So it can be used more places, but less cards can trigger it.
I also gave him 5 spells in his deck. 1 more than Lem, 1 less than Lini. No other character starts with 5 spells.
And lastly, since he's doing divine and arcane, I favored blessing in his deck and having one of his powers trigger from blessings.
Anyway here is what I've got. I appreciate any feedback:
SKILLS
STRENGTH d6 []+1
DEXTERITY d6 []+1 []+2
CONSTITUTION d4 []+1 []+2
INTELLIGENCE d10 []+1 []+2
*KNOWLEDGE: INTELLIGENCE + 1
*ARCANE: INTELLIGENCE + 2
WISDOM d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*DIVINE: WISDOM +2
CHARISMA d6 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
POWERS
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8
Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check in its standard way.
Add 2 ([]4) to your check to acquire any boon with the magic trait.
CARDS LIST
WEAPON – [] 1 [] 2
SPELL 5 [] 6 [] 7 [] 8
ARMOR –
ITEM 3 [] 4 [] 5
ALLY 3 [] 4
BLESSING 4 [] 5 [] 6
ROLE CARD
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8 []9
Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) ([]+2) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check in its standard way.
Add 2 ([]4) to your check to acquire any boon with the magic trait.
[] You may discard a card to reduce damage dealt to each character at your location by 1 ([] 2).
[] When using a weapon with the magic trait, you may roll your Arcane die in place of your Strength or Dexterity die. When doing so, you are considered proficient with weapons.
[] When you play Blessing of Pharasma, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
[] When you play an item with the magic trait, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
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I see...I believe I'm the guy who suggested that your idea might be similar to a mystic theurge, if you are who I think you are. I won't reveal your secret identity if you won't reveal mine.
The Mystic Theurge description can be found here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/mystic-theur ge
Note that I have actually never played D&D 3.5 / Pathfinder, but did play a lot of Neverwinter Nights back in the day, which operates on the same system. One of the things that the Adventure Card Game doesn't do so well is to provide players a way to enter the "prestige classes" of the Pathfinder RPG. This class might work best as either a cleric or an arcane spellcaster who, by choosing a role card, "moves into" the other domain and can use a skill point to add either the Divine or Arcane skill to their Powers, kind of like Harsk can do. It would be pretty interesting to have a wizard who has a lot of blessings. But then again...I believe I've heard the developers say that they are "informed" by the RPG, but aren't "limited" to it, so...
Indeed you are that guy. I checked out what I could on the mystic theurge, but I understand so little of the RPG lingo that it was hard to even grasp what I was reading. And I saw the same thing about the developers being informed by RPG but not limited to it, so I figured as long as what I came up with wasn't a character that was more powerful than the others, I was ok.
I was mostly concerned with making him different from the other spell casters.
Check out the other one I made too. I posted him here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qfyh?Custom-Character-Feedback-Magic-Warrior
Again, trying to give him a different play style than the others.
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Checked your post history, and I see that I am "that guy." So now you know that I must make the beneficent gesture and nod my head.
Powers are really the defining attributes of characters...and almost every character we've currently seen adds some sort of unique "twist" on the game. Recharging cards and adding bonuses are common, but there could be other powers. Mystic theurges are big on discovering knowledge...what if this character could discard or recharge any arcane or divine card in order to scout cards? Something like that.
Ok. Harsk and Seelah can both scout, so what about this twist version:
At any time during your turn, you may recharge an arcane or divine card to examine the top two cards of your location deck. You may additionally switch their order by discarding the card instead of recharging it.
Does that seem a decent way to scout cards?
Or how about this version:
At any time during your turn you may reveal a card to attempt a Knowledge 6 check to examine the top card of your location deck. If you fail the check you must recharge a card.
I played Brigandoom solo with this build. I used the version of scouting the deck with the Knowledge 6 check. Two observations: First, recharging spells was much harder than it was with other spell casters I've played (which is everyone but Lem). Second, I succeeded at that Knowledge 6 check most of the time, though I didn't use it a whole lot. I'm sure that will be different when I'm not solo. Third, the bonus to acquiring items I decided I didn't like. At least not right away
I'm going to modify the powers. Here are the new ones:
Hand Size 6 []7 []8
*Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check normally.
*When you recharge a spell, you may shuffle your deck.
*At any time during your turn you may reveal a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check to examine the top card of your location deck. If the check fails, you must recharge a card.
Role Powers - Archmage
Hand Size 6 []7 []8 []9
*Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) ([]+2) ([]+3) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check normally.
*When you recharge a spell, you may shuffle your deck.
*Once per your turn you may reveal a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check to examine the top card of your location deck (and [] encounter it). If the check fails, you must recharge a card.
[]You may recharge spells when resetting your hand.
[]When you play Blessing of Pharasma, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
[]When using a weapon with the magic trait, you may roll your Arcane die in place of your Strength or Dexterity die. When doing so, you are considered proficient with weapons.
[]Once per a turn, you may banish a spell from your hand to draw a random spell from the box.
Ok, so you wanted my opinion on the tweaks here too.
So lets go.
I like the blessing or spell help. But i´m not sure if you should put a location restriction in for balance. Would need playtesting.
I would swap the recharge at reset to the baseclass and safe the recharge spell = shuffle for the role card.
Knowledge check for examining is really unique. I like it. I just would change the last sentence from must recharge a card to, must recharge this card. So you must recharge the card you revealed. Not much of a diverence but i think it would fit.
Using a magic weapon with your arcane die....why only the arcane die when you can cast arcane and divine? I wouldn´t favor one above the other, or would give divine another ability just for it.
Banishing a spell for a random spell sounds like a lot of fun. But it can be exploited. Someone could just play scenarios to draw until he has the spells he want, because you don´t have to win a scenario to get the loot.
Just sitting there for 30 turns and drawing, rinse and repeat.
And my last and biggest point would be, there is no other character that has more than 6 unique powers. So to stay with the rest, you would need to cut something.
I hope this was helpful too.
Banishing a spell for a random spell sounds like a lot of fun. But it can be exploited. Someone could just play scenarios to draw until he has the spells he want, because you don´t have to win a scenario to get the loot.
Just sitting there for 30 turns and drawing, rinse and repeat.
I would certainly hope no one would do this, because that's just silly. Seriously... why bother even setting up the scenario in the first place? Just grab the spells you want from the box and be done with it. :)
Fenris does bring up a good point though. To prevent exploitation, you could bury the new spell you acquire. This would limit the number of times you could do this, and slightly weakens your character for the rest of the scenario.
For example:
[] Once per a turn, you may banish a spell from your hand to draw a random spell from the box and bury it.
And my last and biggest point would be, there is no other character that has more than 6 unique powers. So to stay with the rest, you would need to cut something.
I would argue that the number of powers is less important than the number of power feats. As long as the character is par with the other characters in terms of overall strength, it should be fine.
The issue I see with too many powers is that you're not giving players much opportunity to upgrade their powers, only enable them (which isn't really a problem, just an observation).
For example only, consider this subtle change:
[] When using a weapon with the magic trait, you may roll your Arcane die in place of your Strength or Dexterity die. ([] When doing so, you are considered proficient with weapons. )
Basically, this would improve the die used (d6 -> d10) as the first feat, then reducing the difficulty (depending on the weapon of course) of the check as the second feat (which it should be anyhow; as written it's basically a BOGO feat sale).
However, (specific to this power/character) I do have to wonder whether the weapon proficiency makes sense for this character at all (thematically speaking). Why would this character be able to wield a magical battle axe (almost) as well as a fighter... just because it's magical? I would nix that weapon proficiency part altogether; using your arcane die with simple weapons (those not requiring weapon proficiency) is benefit enough, IMO, without the free weapon proficiency feat.
I have some comments about other powers, which I will post later.
I'd love to hear your suggestions. I decided to drop that random spell power and the weapon power all together. I've played him (or the version below) through Perils and it seemed fun and challenging enough. I was solo and had to face Black Fang with my 1 cure and two attack spells stuck in my discard pile. Fortunately I had Aid, and two blessings, so I was able to roll 2d6 + 1d4 and rolled high enough.
If you've got more feedback I'd be happy to hear it.
So to update, here is how he's looking right now:
SKILLS
STRENGTH d6 []+1 []+2
DEXTERITY d6 []+1 []+2
CONSTITUTION d4 []+1
INTELLIGENCE d10 []+1 []+2
*KNOWLEDGE: INTELLIGENCE + 1
*ARCANE: INTELLIGENCE + 2
WISDOM d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*DIVINE: WISDOM +2
CHARISMA d6 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
POWERS
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8
*Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check in its standard way.
*When resetting your hand, you may recharge spells.
*At any time during your turn you may reveal a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check. If it succeeds examine the top card of your location deck. If it fails, you recharge this card.
CARDS LIST
WEAPON –
SPELL 5 [] 6 [] 7 [] 8
ARMOR –
ITEM 3 [] 4 [] 5
ALLY 3 [] 4 [] 5
BLESSING 4 [] 5 [] 6 []7
ROLE CARD POWERS
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8 []9
*Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) ([]+2) ([]+3) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check in its standard way.
*When resetting your hand, you may recharge spells.
*At any time during your turn you may reveal a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check. If it succeeds examine the top card of your location deck ([]and encounter it) ([]or place it behind the next card in the location deck). If it fails, you recharge this card.
[]When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell, you may shuffle your deck.
[]When you play Blessing of Pharasma, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
[]Once per turn, you may swap a blessing from your hand with a spell in you discard pile.
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Maybe an alternate role card could do something to boost healing or cleric type powers instead of just magic powers...e.g., no "swap blessing" thing, but maybe "turn undead" or a healing option or something like that. In other words: if there are two role options, one might lean more towards arcane / pure spellcasting, and one might lean more towards cleric.
Good idea. I've got a list of other powers to think about for a second role too. I also have to recognize Calthaer for his input into this offline.
I'm going to start Burnt Offering with him tonight. I've got a duo of Sajan and Merisiel I've been playing with my wife. But our lack of spells has been disturbing. They just finished Burnt Offerings, so I want to catch him up to join them before we start Skinsaw. Hopefully it goes well.
*At any time during your turn you may reveal a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check. If it succeeds examine the top card of your location deck. If it fails, you recharge this card.
This was actually the power I was going to comment on earlier... or later.... or whenever. :)
I think the mechanic sounds interesting, but to me, this seems overpowered for these 4 reasons:
1) not limiting the card type
2) not limiting the timing
3) reveal/recharge
4) 50% chance at a completely free examine
(Not saying all 4 would need to be addressed, but together they make this ridiculous)
This is another power that I see as being easy to abuse. Let's say you examine the top card of your location, and it's a monster you're not sure you're ready to face, but you wanted to chance it anyway. You could spam this power until you've recharged all of the cards from your hand except a choice few that you want to bring into battle (for example, Dagger and Blessing of the Gods). You then explore to encounter the monster, reveal & recharge your Dagger, play your Blessing, then roll and fail. You take 0 damage because you were able to safely manipulate your hand. You draw back up to full health and end your turn. This is an odd example, but it does point out the flaws above.
Let me get "meta" and ask what this power is supposed to emulate? Is your character an at-will psychic whom can simply glance at any object and know the future or see great distances with the power of his mind? That's kind of what it feels like... (Tell me, Mr. Shortsword, what lies on the other side of this door?)
Point #1: if this is a spell-like ability, I would say it should require either be a Spell or a card with a certain trait (Magic, Arcane, Divine, or whatever) to make thematic sense. Unless you opt for bury/discard, similar to Amiri or Seoni.
Point #2: I think you undervalue the value of knowing what next in your location. Look at similar "examine" powers compared to this; there's a reason all of these powers are limited as they are. It should not be an at-will power, even with the check (more on that) or recharge
Point #3: Similarly to #2, you over-value the cost of reveal (no cost) and recharge (temporary exhaustion, minor inconvenience). A discard is something that weakens you (but can be healed), and bury is something that leaves you weakened for an extended period of time beyond simple healing).
Look at Shalelu (Ally); her power is to examine the top card and (assuming you don't encounter it) recharge her. Your ability is (worst-case) an almost limitless supply of Shalelu cards (as long as you have a card in your massive hand).
Even if this was simply an automatic recharge, I'd say it's still over powered. I think it should be either a bury or discard, or you'd have seriously re-examine one of the other issues.
Point #4: A Knowledge 6 check for this character, using 1d10+1, means you would have to roll a 5 or better (50% chance) to pass this check... worst case. Then as you max out your Int, it becomes 1d10+3 (is this why you limited Int to +2?), which means you would have to roll a 3 or better (80% chance) to pass the check. Now let's say you have the Tome of Knowledge. Now your Knowledge check is 1d10 + 1d6 + 3, which means you just need to roll higher than a 1 on either die (98.33% chance).
My complaint is not that the check is too easy. It's that it's too easy for the benefit you get (see previous points). Quite frankly, the check and its effect could go away because entirely it doesn't really matter; you've already examined the location. I'd say you need pass the check (but make it higher, maybe even increase the difficulty by the scenario number) or you don't get to examine the card at all.
And then you have your Archmage version of this power. Reveal any card to examine and encounter the next card? That's basically unlimited (almost) free explores. And if you don't like what you find, set it behind the next one and keep going. You could easily clear 2 locations in a single turn (since this power is any time, you could clear out location #1 before your move, move, then clear out location #2) without ever using a single explore (not saying it would be easy, but it's possible).
I don't have any firm suggestions on fixing it, but I've given you several thoughts to consider at least.
Thanks again for the feedback. Two things I should correct (they were this way in my head, but not in my typing).
First the skill check boxes were mixed up for Intelligence and Charisma. I had at one point based his arcane off Charisma, and forgot to move the check boxes when I switched it. It should have been:
SKILLS
STRENGTH d6 []+1 []+2
DEXTERITY d6 []+1 []+2
CONSTITUTION d4 []+1
INTELLIGENCE d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*KNOWLEDGE: INTELLIGENCE + 1
*ARCANE: INTELLIGENCE + 2
WISDOM d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*DIVINE: WISDOM +2
CHARISMA d6 []+1 []+2
Second, the scouting power should be once per turn. I wrote at any time per turn meaning at the beginning or the end of the turn, but I didn't mean it could be spammed repeatedly. So its only once per turn. And I think I just didn't write it clear enough. It was supposed to have two possible outcomes:
1. You reveal (maybe display is the more appropriate word here) the card. Succeed at the check, put the card back in your hand, and get to examine the next card in the location deck.
2. You display the card, fail the check, discard the card and do NOT get to examine the next card in the location deck.
And my thinking was, that even though its 50/50 (and maybe better as I check off skill boxes) there is still a chance that he fails, and has to to pay the penalty with no boon. I don't think anyone else power risks that. I think I'll up the penalty to discard instead though. And I didn't intend other cards to make this check easier either. So the new wording would be:
Once per turn you may display a card and attempt a Knowledge 6 check. If it succeeds examine the top card of your location deck. If it fails, you discard the displayed card card. You may not play any cards to add to this check.
And for the role power what if I added this: ([]after examining it, you may discard the card to move it behind the next card in the location deck []or to encounter it.)
He'd have to take the "move it back a card" power feat first, then could take the encounter it power feat after that. And its costing him a discard.
Does that seem more fair?
And again, thanks for the feedback.
Remember that if you don't specify a time or a limit, then there isn't one. Specifying "once per turn" definitely improves it.
I do think that the new wording is much better, but I don't think the "You may not play cards to this check is needed" given the "once per turn" limitation. Again, my point with #4 was not that the check is too easy, but rather that the risk/reward wasn't there (primarily with regard to the other points); gambling to discard vs examine is probably enough, IMO.
And just a quick observation: with the updated Int bonus (max +4), it makes your Knowledge 6 check automatic even without additional dice (1d10 + 5 = 6->15) once you get to that point. Not sure if that was intended or not.
I don't know... it still seems unbalanced, but this time more toward under powered. For example, Harsk gets to examine his location once for free; no checks, no recharge/discard. So does Seelah, but at the "cost" of pushing boons to the bottom of the deck. Maybe it's the chance of discarding for no effect whatsoever...
Keep in mind that discarding is the equivalent of taking damage (or physical exhaustion); so thematically, you're risking your (mental) health to examine your surroundings. Does this fit with your character design (not questioning, just asking). I guess it's just not "clicking" for me on how this fits with your overall character design (not that it really has to, this is your character after all).
Also, for your role power, you should probably use specific references to "displayed card" and "examined card" instead of just "the card" and "the next card"; I can infer what you mean based on previous iterations, but it's not very clear as written.
Alright, so maybe that still needs some work then. Thematically, I was thinking this guy is a spell caster who loves knowledge. My description of him (which I didn't post) talks about how he dedicated himself to studying ancient texts while being raised by monks (thus the arcane plus divine combo), but to the detriment of interacting with others. Then one day the monastery was attacked and destroyed. Everyone but him killed. He decided he needed to begin to use the knowledge he had acquired to help others instead of just keeping it for himself. So the power lets him use his magic to gain knowledge of what's coming next. Sort of like seeing the future.
Maybe a better version would be he discards to get to examine the next card. Then he can succeed at the knowledge 6 check to recharge instead of discard. So updated power would be (italics represent what gets added on for the role card):
Once per turn, you may discard a card to examine the next card at your location ([]and encounter it) ([]or place it behind the next card in the location deck). Succeed at an unaided knowledge 6 check to recharge this card instead of discarding it.
By "unaided" I mean: "You may not play any cards to add to this check." Just trying to keep it short.
I also might be swayed to make the Knowledge check 7 so it would never be guaranteed. And to maybe add a rule that if it is a monster other than a henchmen or villain it must be encountered. Sort like saying, he's good at knowing things, but he's not a stealth character so if he comes across them they notice him and attack him. Maybe for the henchmen or villain he should have to shuffle the location deck. That bring back in some risk in trying to help others set up their next turn. He might be able to tell Valeros to come over here and try to acquire this weapon, but he also might have to fight a werewolf without being prepared.
I'm personally more excited about the power to shuffle when he succeeds at a check to recharge a spell. He has less spells than Ezren or Lini, so being able to shuffle will be key to getting them back closer to the top, especially if he's been recharging blessings that he'd otherwise have to get through to cycle back to his recharged spells. I left it for his role card, because I was worried it was too powerful. But having played him a bit, I'm thinking that given his spell card count, it isn't too powerful. In fact without it he's gotten stuck more than a few times with out an attack spell when facing a monster. Every other character has a "back up" attack option. Ezren, Lem, and Kyra (and Seelah too if you want to include her among the spell casters) all carry a weapon. Lini can turn into a bear. Seoni can use any card as an attack. But there were a few times when I was left to punch widely at a Bunyip or Zombie with my bare fists. I don't want a backup attack option, and I don't want to overload him with attack spells (right now they are 2 of his 5 spells). And I do really shuffle, so there is still no guarantee that attack spell will be near the top. It just become lightly more likely. Sure those others (except Seoni) can get stuck without an attack option, but its not as likely. I think his shuffle power might put him on par with their likely hood of having to attack with just their base strength.
And thanks for the point about being more clear. I made an actual card of him to play with and I trimmed the wording down so they would fit onto the card thinking to myself, "I know what I really mean." But obviously when I copied from the wording on the card to the forum I forgot others wouldn't know what I mean. Thanks for taking the effort to learn what I mean instead of just taking it at face value.
If anyone has a chance to try the setup even just once with the shuffle power as a base power, I'd be interested to know if your experience leads you to feel it is over powered or helps balance him out. I think it sounds over powered, but in practice wouldn't be. But I haven't tied it myself, just know what if feels like with out it. If you do, please note that he only gets to do it if he succeeds at a check to recharge a spell. So his power to recharge spells when resetting his hand and this power don't combine since when he resets his hand he's not succeeding at a check.
Again, much appreciated.
A quick follow-up... I also think "Once per turn" should be "Once on your turn" or "At the start of your turn" to prevent you from examining (and later encountering) cards on other people's turns.
I thought of an slightly different spin on this. The first examine is free, but the check buys you a second examine (similar to Sypglass). Then a power feat would allow you to put them back in any order.
For example (base power):
* Once during your turn, you may perform a Knowledge 8 check. If successful, examine the top 2 cards of your current location; otherwise, examine only the top card.
And Archmage power:
* Once during your turn, you may perform a Knowledge 8 check. If successful, examine the top 2 cards of your current location; otherwise, examine only the top card. ([] You may return them in any order.)
My thought process:
I was aiming for something between Harsk's power and Spyglass, so at least 1, but up to 2 cards scouted. I've removed the "damage with no effect" gamble so the power is always useful. I've also given the check more purpose by adding in the second card as a reward for success. I've increased the check slightly to account for the Int +4 and Knowledge +1 bonuses, so that even maxed out it's not automatic, but still relatively easily attainable; you could even bump it to 10 and I think it would manageable. I've left off the encounter option because I'm not sure it fits with this particular power. I thought about including the "display a card" mechanic (divination using some magical object), but decided it was too wordy and not needed.
Excellent suggestion. Thanks for the the feedback.
Update: So here is where this stands right now. I'm pretty happy with it, unless someone comes along and blows a hole in it.
SKILLS
STRENGTH d6 []+1 []+2
DEXTERITY d6 []+1 []+2
CONSTITUTION d4 []+1
INTELLIGENCE d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*KNOWLEDGE: INTELLIGENCE + 1
*ARCANE: INTELLIGENCE + 2
WISDOM d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
*DIVINE: WISDOM +2
CHARISMA d6 []+1 []+2
CARDS LIST
WEAPON –
SPELL 5 [] 6 [] 7 [] 8
ARMOR –
ITEM 3 [] 4 [] 5
ALLY 3 [] 4 [] 5
BLESSING 4 [] 5 [] 6 []7
POWERS
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8
- Once per check, you may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check normally.
- When resetting your hand, you may recharge spells.
- When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell you may shuffle it into your deck.
ROLE: ARCHMAGE
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8 []9
- You may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) ([]+2) ([]+3) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check normally.
- When resetting your hand, you may recharge spells.
- When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ([] or item) you may shuffle it into your deck.
- [] When you play Blessing of Irori, add d12 instead of the normal died.
- [] Once per a turn, you may swap a blessing in your hand for a spell in your discard pile.
- [] At the start of your turn, succeed at a knowledge 9 check to examine the top card of your location. ([] You may place it behind the next card in the location when you return it.)
ROLE: DIVINE PROTECTOR
HAND SIZE 6 []7 []8
- You may recharge a blessing ([] or spell) to add 1d4 ([]+1) ([]+2) with the magic trait to any check. You may still play another card of this type to affect the check normally.
- When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ([] or item), you may shuffle your deck.
- When resetting your hand, you may recharge spells.
- [] When you play a spell to add to another character’s check, they may also recharge a random card from their discard pile.
- [] When you play a blessing on another character’s check, add 1 ([] 2) to the check.
- [] You may discard a card to reduce combat damage by 2 ([] 4) to all characters at your location.
- [] When you give a card to another character they may shuffle it into their deck.
Thanks to all those who helped me piece this together.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look at them.
In the play that I've done with the power to shuffle spells instead of recharging them, it actually hasn't seen too powerful. Because, while it might put that particular spell closer to the top, it also might put another spell back towards the bottom. I was playing him last night, and I never saw his cure spell. It kept getting shuffled back down. I was his force missile come through 3 times. But I was really wanting that cure spell. So I feel like it helps him get spells in general to be available to draw, but it doesn't necessarily help a particularly needed spell to cycle. It sort of just serves to break up the sequence of cards when they come back through.
Also, I just want to make sure you noticed the little nuance that to get to shuffle a recharged spell, he has to have succeeded at a check to recharge it. So Power 2 and 3 don't work together. If he recharges a spell just to keep it out of his hand, he doesn't get to shuffle that.
But I should probably limit power 2 to 1 spell. So when resetting his hand, he may recharge 1 spell.
Not that I actually want to do this, its more like brainstorming. But I just thought of something interesting...
What if when he succeed at a check to recharge a spell, he rolled his knowledge skill and subtracted 1. He could then place the card that far from the bottom of his deck. So (when he hasn't taken any skill feats in intelligence) he could end up putting it as the bottom through tenth card. With a 5 hand size, rolling a 10 would be the top card of the deck if nothing had been discarded yet. And of course as he took skill feat in knowledge, he'd be able to more it further from the bottom. But as he took card feats he'd have more potential cards in his deck to balance out the skill feat a bit.
Jut sort of brainstorming out loud.
And also, what if I replaced the role power of examining the top card of his location on a knowledge 9 check to instead say, "When you play a spell on your turn and roll your arcane or divine die, if you roll a 10 you may examine the top card of your location ([] and move it one card back in the location)."
Playing blessings to get extra dice would also be extra chances to get that 10.
And here I thought I was done. Vic was right when he said characters were the toughest to design.
And I thank you very much for your opinion, I do indeed appreciate it.
Ok. So I think you are right about hand size. And I'm liking the twist I thought up. So at this point I'm going to try these powers:
*Hand Size 5 []6
* When you roll your arcane or divine die, if any d10 rolled is a 10, you may examine the top card of your location deck ([] and place it behind the next card).
* When resetting your hand, you may recharge 1 spell from your hand to the bottom of your deck.
[] When you succeed at an arcane or divine check to recharge a spell ([] or item) you may roll you knowledge skill and subtract 1. You may place the card that far up from the bottom of your deck.
So I dropped his hand size.
He has a 10% shot to examine the next card IF he plays a spell that uses his d10. I'm mostly thinking the attack spells will trigger this, but there might be a spell or two I'm not thinking of. I also left it open that if a location required him to do that his power would also trigger. Don't know if that exists in the game or not. Though I suppose if he defeated a henchman and then attempted an arcane or divine check to close and somehow managed to fail while at the same time rolling a 10 his power would trigger. But that seems unlikely. That power can be made more likely by virtue of blessings adding more d10s. It can also be expanded to beyond just scouting to allowing him to setup the deck, but without knowing what thing he's swapping it with.
He can recharge 1 card from his hand to his deck (sort of like being proficient with armor for the magic armors) just to keep it from being clogged up with spells he can't cast at that moment.
And instead of shuffling his whole deck he can potentially put his recharged spell closer to the top. But he'll have to pick that power up with a power feat.
I'll be testing these out tomorrow. If they work, I'll need to rework my role cards (maybe Archmage will get the ability to add to checks at his location), but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Since I haven't even experienced any role card in the game yet, I'm going to be open to completely rewriting the role card anyway once I have more first hand knowledge.
And again, thanks for the feedback. I know he's probably only ever going to be played by me, so to some extent who cares as long as I'm happy. But I want to feel legit when I play him and knowing that others wouldn't think he's out of balance with the "stock" characters will help with that.
One way to think of hand size is the general "squishiness" of your character: more cards in your hand mean you have fewer cards in your character deck (fewer overall HP) and you also have the potential to take much more damage in a single turn.
For spell casters, it makes sense to keep the hand size larger because they would have the fewest HP of any of the other character in the RPG. Ezren, Seoni, and Lem fit that description, and I think this character would as well (it definitely sounds like a "squishy" character to me).
For example, if you take maximum damage in back-to-back turns and your hand size is 6, you're dead (assuming initial deck size of 15 and no recharges/healing). If your hand size is 5, you're still alive, although just barely. If your hand size is 4, you've almost got a 3rd turn of max damage in you.
EDIT: re-organized.
For example only, consider this subtle change:
[] When using a weapon with the magic trait, you may roll your Arcane die in place of your Strength or Dexterity die. ([] When doing so, you are considered proficient with weapons. )Basically, this would improve the die used (d6 -> d10) as the first feat, then reducing the difficulty (depending on the weapon of course) of the check as the second feat (which it should be anyhow; as written it's basically a BOGO feat sale).
The whole concept of replacing the Strength Die with an Arcane Die seems more appropriate to a "Magus" class and could be a good concept for that build. I don't think it fits for the "Mystic Theuge" idea. But I like the concept. And a "Magus" would likely have at least 1 weapon & armor in the build (but no divine). I think it should take some of your "Magic" power to do though. So, maybe the power could be activated by recharging any card with the "Magic" trait (which could be the weapon itself, if it were magical). But since the "Magic" can come from a different card, the weapon itself would not have to be magical to use the power.
I also like Magus concept, which I agree is not this character.
There's a decent build that I found on BGG here (not the one in the files, but rather the one posted in the comments). I've played it through several games and it seems fairly balanced (although I tweaked it slightly).
Yeah. I tried something similar with another character, but that build on BGG looks better. Ok. So after some testing here is what I've settled on. I'm not going to be too concerned about a role card just yet. (Though a friend just got his Hood Mountain Massacre today, so I guess roles aren't too far away).
Skills and cards are the same as above.
Powers are now just these two:
Hand Size is 6 with power feat boxes for 7 and 8.
2 Powers:
*When you play a spell and roll your arcane or divine die, if a 10 is rolled on a d10, you may examine the next card in your location.
*When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ( or item) you may shuffle your deck before ( or after) recharging it.
The first one serves to sort of combine the divine (blessings) with his magic, since a blessing will give him more chances to role a 10. And the second I really enjoy, though I made it a little harder to earn the full capability. It serves as divine intervention is his access to his spells.
So I dropped the adding a d4 to checks all together. Going to try him a couple of more times this way tonight to see how he works out.
HM269, I personally believe you have struck a good balance on this final iteration. The folks that have chimed in are the ones I've noticed have commented on most of the character builds, so you're probably getting the best player advice on the forums. As someone remarked, you'll never enjoy the degree of play testing Paizo had.
Thanks. And thanks to everyone that helped with your advice. I appreciate the time you put in to something that was (probably) entirely for my benefit. All you insight and comments were helpful and valuable to me as I worked through balancing this out. And I agree with Bidmaron (and include him in this statement) that you guys all seem to be some of the most knowledgeable and helpful users on the forum, so I'm grateful you shared your knowledge with me. Have a merry Christmas and happy Hook Mountain Massacre.
So, I was thinking about this character again recently. I'll have to dig him out and update him, since what I ended doing doesn't match what is on here. I played him for a bit, but didn't like the feeling of mixing my custom character with the iconic characters. Not totally sure why. I guess just because I felt like I shouldn't get too much into creating a custom character when I hadn't given all the iconic characters a shot yet. I'd really like to one day play an all custom made character run through RotR one day.
Anyway, I was thinking about him and it got me thinking about a possible power. Something like:
When you play a spell to add to another character's check, add d8 instead of the normal die.
I'm thinking about spells like Fiery Weapon, Find Traps and even the Cloud Spells. And basically giving him a power that was sort of like the blessing powers we've seen, but to have it work with spells.
Not totally sure if d8 is too powerful to start with, maybe I'd start with d6 and have upgrades for d8, d10, and even d12? And/or maybe an upgrade to add in my character's Arcane/Divine bonus (just the +2, not the skill feats)?
Anyone got some thoughts on that? I'd love some feedback. Thanks.
So, I've been working on this a bit more lately. Still have a dream of playing the whole AP with homebrew characters. Some notes: I dropped his scouting power. I found it hard to remember and too random. I noticed none of the iconics in RotR had a blessing of Desna power. This guy might need some help recharging spells since his Arcane and Divine will be split over two skills. I figured that made a good match. I also liked the idea of him getting a bit more out of support spells than typical. That is going to affect Fiery Weapon, Fire Sneeze, Find Traps, Toxic Cloud, Incendiary Cloud, and Blizzard. I also tried to balance his roles. I personally wanted the Archmage one, so I tried to make the other role good enough to tempt me not to take Archmage.
Here is what my Mystic Theurge looks like right now. Remember, I have almost no knowledge of what a Mystic Theurge really is, so don't get too hung up on it if his powers don't match his class. I'd be fine calling him a wizard, or a mage, or any other term. Most of this still isn't tested, but I think it sounds reasonable compared to other powers. Any feedback is appreciated.
Hakon
Male
Human
Mystic Theurge
SKILLS
Strength: d6 []+1
Dexterity: d6 []+1
Constitution: d4 []+1 []+2
Intelligence: d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
--Arcane: Intelligence +2
--Knowledge: Intelligence +3
Wisdom: d10 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
--Divine: Wisdom +2
Charisma: d6 []+1 []+2 []+3
POWERS
HAND SIZE: 5 []6 []7
When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ([]or item) you may shuffle your deck before ([]or after) recharging it.
When you play a spell that adds dice to a check, add d6 instead of the normal die.
CARD LIST
Weapon -
Spell 7 []8 []9 []10
Armor -
Item 2 []3 []4
Ally 3 []4 []5
Blessing 3 []4 []5 []6
ROLE: ARCHMAGE
HAND SIZE: 5 []6 []7 []8
When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ([]or item) you may shuffle your deck before ([]or after) recharging it.
When you play a spell that adds dice to a check, add d6 ([]d8) instead of the normal die.
[]When you play Blessing of Desna, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
[]Add 2 ([]4) to a check at your location to acquire a spell.
[]At the start of the turn, you may bury a card to put a spell in your discard pile in your hand.
[]At the end of your turn, you may recharge any number of spells from your hand.
[]At the start of your turn, you may recharge a spell to examine the top card of your location.
ROLE: HAND OF THE GODS
HAND SIZE: 5 []6 []7 []8
When you succeed at a check to recharge a spell ([]or item) you may shuffle your deck before ([]or after) recharging it.
When you play a spell to add dice to a check, add d6 ([]d8) instead of the normal die.
[]When you play Blessing of Desna, you may recharge it instead of discarding it.
[]When you play a spell, you may examine the top card of your deck. If it is a spell or blessing you may add it to your hand.
[]When you play a blessing on another character's check, add 2 ([]3) to the check.
[]You may discard a spell to reduce damage to all characters at your location by 2 ([]4).
Interesting looking character. A few thoughts: adding D6 ([]D8) when playing a spell - are there any instances later on where this could be worse than the printed ability? is it worth making it "you may add D6..."
For the Hand of the Gods- is the +2 ([]+3) instead of the additional dice or as well?
I was also curious as to why you'd honed in on the Blessing of Desna? is there a particular link between this character and Desna? I'd recently tried to create a couple of divine characters which specifically tied in to the themes of the relevant deity - came up with something very different to this - http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r320?Desnan-Druid#2
Interesting looking character. A few thoughts: adding D6 ([]D8) when playing a spell - are there any instances later on where this could be worse than the printed ability? is it worth making it "you may add D6..."
The d6 won't help much with Toxic Cloud. But for everything else it should. I can't entirely remember what Blizzard says, but I think it is 2d6 so the d8 version would help there. But he can always choose not to use his power.
For the Hand of the Gods- is the +2 ([]+3) instead of the additional dice or as well?
Its a bonus in addition to the dice as well.
I was also curious as to why you'd honed in on the Blessing of Desna? is there a particular link between this character and Desna? I'd recently tried to create a couple of divine characters which specifically tied in to the themes of the relevant deity - came up with something very different to this - http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r320?Desnan-Druid#2
I have no knowledge of the Pathfinder world, so no ideas about alignments or anything like that and even less knowledge about which deities do what. I just wanted to give him some help recharging his spells since he will probably be splitting skill feats between Intelligence and Wisdom.
I don't get the "adds dice to a check" power. Is that supposed to work just with the clouds, or is it supposed to be wider? If it only works with clouds, it seems worse than useless to me, since they're all either d6 or higher. Can you clarify the intent of the power? (On re-reading, it seems your intent is that all dice become d6's. But even then, that only helps incendiary cloud)
This is just an aesthetic issue, but every other character has had their blessing power last on the power list. I think it would look better to do the same here.
The wording of the 'put a spell from discard to hand' sounds awkward to me. Do you think this sounds better:
'At the start of your turn, you may bury a card from hand to put a spell from your discard pile into your hand'?
Otherwise, I think it looks good. I'm genuinely not sure right now if he's too strong or too weak, which means he's probably at a good starting point for testing.
The add d6(d8) instead of the normal die would work with the following:
Fiery Weapon (1d4)
Fire Sneeze (1d4)
Toxic Cloud (1d6)
Incendiary Cloud (2d4)
Blizzard (2d6?)
Find Traps ("dice")
He would add use d6s instead of what is there. So Fiery Weapon would be 1d6. Incendiary Cloud, 2d6. And when he upgraded to d8, then even better. And that would make them, for me at least, very worthwhile to have.
It is possible that for Find Traps the normal die would be better than the d6 or the d8, but it is also possible it won't be. He can choose to not use his power, so if someone has a d10 or d12 skill he'll just play Find Traps the normal way.
I put the blessing power where I did so that when I copied and pasted the repeated powers were all together.
And yes, I think I can word that better. I kept rewording it to try to make it a single line on the card, but looks like it ended up being more awkward than I realized.
"At the start of your turn, you may bury a card to return a spell from your discard pile to your hand."
Thanks.
I checked and Blizzard is indeed 2d6. So here are the spells and what he'd roll normally and with his power. Also I missed Aid, which his upgrade to d8 would affect.
Fiery Weapon 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8
Fire Sneeze 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8
Toxic Cloud 1d6 -> 1d6 -> 1d8
Incendiary Cloud 2d4 -> 2d6 -> 2d8
Blizzard 2d6 ->2d6 -> 2d8
Aid 1d6 -> 1d6 -> 1d8
Find Traps 2xBase Die -> 2d6 -> 2d8
I'm guessing Corrosive Storm will be another "cloud" spell, but who knows what it will add in terms of dice. Could be 3d4, 3d6, or 2d8. It could even do something other than dice, like a straight +3 or something. Only the 2d8 would render his power meaningless. But having one spell where it didn't help wouldn't be the end of the world.
If needed, I'll take another edit of him once deck 6 is out and we can see Corrosive Storm.
Corrosive Storm is what happens after Taco Bell, so I'd say 2 D12's and have to rest afterwards.