My current DM has converted the 3.0 Diablo II: To Hell and Back Mega-dungeon crawl to pathfinder and asked us to make 3rd lvl gestalt characters for it. The major caveat being that once we enter the 1st lvl, there's no coming back til we either finish it or die trying. So far the other players are working on:
1) Paladin/Cleric of Sarenrae(fire/healing). I think an Oracle(battle &/or life would be better than cleric, but it's not my pc).
2) Barbarian/Alchemist. she wants to go true mutagen route to eventually exploit the stackable strength bumps.
3) Rogue/Bard. eventually going arcane archer on the bard side.
so, we've got a combat healer, a battle rager, and a stealth monkey, which leaves me the arcane caster role. I initially started with an evocation wizard/elemental sorcerer blaster type, but thinking about the caveat above, I'm thinking maybe something like this would work better for this specific game.
4) Sorcerer(elemental-electricity)/Oracle of Wind. these 2 seem to synergize well together have plenty of offensive spells, and can support the main healer as well. What do you guys think...BTW, only Core & APG allowed.
My current DM has converted the 3.0 Diablo II: To Hell and Back Mega-dungeon crawl to pathfinder and asked us to make 3rd lvl gestalt characters for it. The major caveat being that once we enter the 1st lvl, there's no coming back til we either finish it or die trying. So far the other players are working on:
1) Paladin/Cleric of Sarenrae(fire/healing). I think an Oracle(battle &/or life would be better than cleric, but it's not my pc).2) Barbarian/Alchemist. she wants to go true mutagen route to eventually exploit the stackable strength bumps.
3) Rogue/Bard. eventually going arcane archer on the bard side.
so, we've got a combat healer, a battle rager, and a stealth monkey, which leaves me the arcane caster role. I initially started with an evocation wizard/elemental sorcerer blaster type, but thinking about the caveat above, I'm thinking maybe something like this would work better for this specific game.
4) Sorcerer(elemental-electricity)/Oracle of Wind. these 2 seem to synergize well together have plenty of offensive spells, and can support the main healer as well. What do you guys think...BTW, only Core & APG allowed.
EDIT: DM said we can now use Ultimate Magic & Ultimate Combat as well.
Well, play a god wizard/Blaster mage at the same time.
Look up the blaster mage on the boards here. Those are your feats.
For your gestalt class, go for maximum # of spells.
I suggest an Evoker Wizard, straight up, and pair it with a multi-bloodline sorcerer/oracle, going for Mystic Theurge with Charisma synergy on that side.
Because you're doing a sorc gestalt, you can go straight wizard.
Your feats and specialization apply to both sides of the blaster equation. Your admixture ability affects both sides, if need be.
All your 'common' spells that don't require saves or deal damage, put on the sorc side. Oracle heal and recovery spells, also, which frees up the paladin/cleric to use more offensive stuff.
As an alternative, you can do the same thing with a bit less raw quantity of spells with a Wizard/Sage Sorceror, capitalizing on Int Synergy, or a Wizard/Witch (ewww, that could get nasty).
This is probably the ideal situation for a MT, since you get full primary casting in one class and can just go for knowing every spell under the sun in the other.
==Aelryinth
having played a gestalt double-caster before, i'd encourage you to consider diversifying a bit more... the only real benefit is the large number of spells per day (and a bit more diversity in your spells) but if you're resting enough for the cleric they won't be necessary and if chances to rest are few and far between no number of spells will match the unlimited resource of a decent melee option (especially if/when you run into something with spell resistance). also, the bard and alchemist both already have access to some healing, so i'm not sure how essential that is for you. here's a few options to consider:
1) Ranger/Scarred Witch Doctor. You'd have to be a half-orc (or take the racial heritage feat) but this combo has full BAB, all good saves, plenty of good skills, free combat feats, lots of HP, 1 class worth of full casting, and hexes that can be used at least 1/enemy (which are awesome for resource management).
2) Paladin/Sorcerer. full BAB, 2 good saves (plus divine grace), fair combat ability, and decent hp. if your GM allows prestige classes (which seems to be the case from the rogue/bard) you can switch to Dragon Disciple on the sorcerer side- you'd lose a couple caster levels but gain some solid melee abilities... (subject to GM approval, a better option for someone wanting to focus on casting would be pally/sorc 1-5, @6,10,and 14 sorc/DD with pally/DD 7-9,11-13,15; that way you give up 3 levels of Pally stuff but keep full casting)
3) Wizard/Magus. 2 good saves, same hp/BAB as sorc/oracle, but with more melee options (mostly from arcana/arcane pool). wizard side adds more utility casting than the sorc. kensai archetype (for magus) has nice defensive synergy for the wizard, and could (i think) be stacked with the blackblade archetype if you're worried about availability of appropriate magic weapons (blackblades have a scaling magic weapon as a class feature).
4) Monk/Sorcerer. take the Empyreal wild bloodline (ultimate magic, makes Wis casting stat). only same hp/BAB as sorc/oracle, but all 3 good saves, more/better combat options, and great defensive synergy (using Wis for AC and casting). if you're not worried about stepping on toes, could also make a pretty solid arcane archer... take the Zen Archer monk archetype and pick up AA (mostly?) on the sorc side (this benefits greatly from the same strategy as the DD build above- if you're GM will let you take ZA/AA when the AA gets +1 CL and sorc/AA at the 3 levels when AA doesn't get +1 CL, you'd end up staying full caster and getting all the abilities of a 17th level zen archer and 13th level sorc).
5) Druid/Sorcerer. take the Empyreal wild bloodline. this isn't all that different than the sorc/oracle except that the druid spell list is a little more aggressive than the oracle's and wildshape will give you some decent melee options.
6) Wizard/Alchemist. take the mindchemist archetype (replaces mutagen with 'cognatogen' which ups a mental stat instead)- great for DCs and bomb damage; an evoker would make for serious AoE damage, or you could use the extra DC for Save or Suck spells. this doesn't have the survivability or melee options of the other options but bombs will help some with resource management and you'll have more skills (since you're Int focused instead of Cha).
7) Witch/Alchemist. similar to above- take mindchemist, stack cognatogen with fox's cunning extract to get outrageous DCs for your hexes (plus use bombs for damage and still have spells for utility). same shortcomings as the wiz/alchemist, except that hexes can be used a ton.
edit: most GMs will not allow Mystic Theurge (or eldritch knight) in gestalt campaigns... if yours will, it's definitely a strong option. 1 level of wood oracle (with the Bend the Grain revelation) or cleric (with the trickery domain) will meet the requirements for divine casting; focus on Int with just enough wis/cha for your divine spells and you can go straight witch on one side (for full casting and those sweet, sweet hexes) and on the other side go cleric or oracle 1/wiz 3/MT 10 (then wiz 4-9)- you'd end up casting as witch 20, wizard 19, cleric/oracle 11!
Mindchemist/wizard is one of the best for truly high DC's. You can pair that with Vivisectionist for SA or just have good saves in all 3 and bombs for when spells are out, Cognatogen for some of the best DC's possible is fun as well. YMMV
Since there is an Arcane Archer amon his peers, hybrid classes should be in.
I'd recommend Wizard 20/Magus 10 -> Eldritch Knight 10. It's really similar to the wizard/magus above, though you will have more Bab and Hit Points, while losing some Magus caster levels and Arcanae.
Also Half-Elf is a great race for Gestalt, since he got two favored classes.
Orc Invulnerable Rager / Scarred Witch Doctor. Play switch hitter. Melee when you need it, HP, Barbarian goodies, and some buff abilities and hexes for softening up the opponents.
Dhampir Zen Archer, Qinggong / Kinslayer. Inquisitons, and replacing teamwork feats for something a little more useful. Not that teamwork feats are bad, but positioning shouldn't be a problem as an archer.
Rogue 5 -> Assassin 1 on one side, Magus on the other, into Arcane Trickster (armored casting, Spell Combat and Spell Strike). I'd recommend at least 6 levels of Magus for the two free Arcanas. if you feel you need the combat boost, start in on Fighter levels along with Arcane Trickster. If you don't need the combat boost, keep on with the Rogue levels.
You could also go Master of Many Styles / Druid and be a combat monster, spending a feat on Feral Combat Training. This route also requires some agreement with your GM on just how you may qualify for certain feats.
Cleric / Druid, because who wouldn't want to be utterly broken?
Synthesist / Barbarian. BECAUSE REASONS.
For the Record, my stats are(25pt buy): STR 7, DEX 17, CON 10, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 19(+2 racial). 4th lvl will go to dex(if we have enough downtime to get agile put on my spiked chain) or cha otherwise.
Gotta say I'm ...surprised to see all the non/partial caster suggestions for a full caster build, and the few full caster builds just don't appeal to me.
So thanks, but I think I'll stick to my elemental sorcerer/oracle of wind concept (going cross blooded archetype for some draconic stuff and the slight possibility of Dragon Disciple later on). the human favored class option for sorcerer more than makes up for the loss of spells known from cross blooded...except the 9th lvl slot.
Now if only there were more ways to increase the threat range of spells so vortex spells would pop more often.
nate lange #4 is a great suggestion, a Wizard or Sorcerer gestalt with monk makes you a survivor as well as a problem fixer. Only one of the other three is a survivor type (the Paladin) and none are particularly synergized to do so.
Gotta say I'm ...surprised to see all the non/partial caster suggestions for a full caster build
the reason for that is because double full caster pidgeon-holes you into a single role and sticks you with a bunch of shortcomings (poor armor access, low HP, two weak saves {and -2 to your 'good' save from crossblooded}...); not great in any game, especially a gestalt campaign.
Now if only there were more ways to increase the threat range of spells so vortex spells would pop more often.
you can apply feats like weapon focus or improved critical to rays, so that's one route.
a much better route: a magus using spellstrike uses his weapon's crit range for the spell as well... if you went straight sorcerer on one side and magus 6/oracle 14 on the other you could take the broad study arcana to use spell combat/spellstrike with all your sorcerer spells. without changing your stats at all (since you already have enough Int for magus 6), you could go with a dervish dance build and pretty quickly have a 15-20 crit range for any spellstrike spells.
Paladin // Sorcerer has long been a very dynamic choice that presents an incredibly tough nut to crack for even powerful foes and demons. The charisma syngery and ability to switch hit is potentially very useful.
Wizard // Alchemist as already noted is incredible with the mindchemist archtype. Really high DCs, incredible knowledge checks, bombs to fall back on when you run low on spells or face SR foes, some healing and extra buffs, all good saves, and ability score synergies. The only trouble is splitting feats between the bomber stuff you may want and the wizard stuff you will need later.
Oracle // Sorcerer can be useful with charisma synergy, but lacks toughness compared to either of the above characters. A lot comes down to your choice of mystery, which can make or break you. You are likely going crossblooded to snag +2 damage per die with blasts if you go the blaster route. That can actually work incredibly well with some of the cleric spell list nukes at high level (especially firestorm - nasty!).
Monk is often cited, but not something I'm a particularly large fan of, because it gives you very little other than good saves and marginal armor class bonuses. Devoting half of your gestalt to some mild defensive bonuses never seemed wise to me. In its place I might try...
Summoner (Synthesist) // Sorcerer for a tank-suit combined with blasting is probably a better option. You can get awfully resistant to damage and hide behind the synthesist bonus hit points. You pick up a bunch of extra spell slots you can use for buffs and ultility magic. You snag high end summons out the wazzo. And you remain a full caster while you do it. Extra cheesy.
nate lange wrote: a much better route: a magus using spellstrike uses his weapon's crit range for the spell as well... if you went straight sorcerer on one side and magus 6/oracle 14 on the other you could take the broad study arcana to use spell combat/spellstrike with all your sorcerer spells. without changing your stats at all (since you already have enough Int for magus 6), you could go with a dervish dance build and pretty quickly have a 15-20 crit range for any spellstrike spells.
Now this looks interesting. I'd be giving up 2 revelations and 8th & 9th lvl oracle spells for the chance to basically triple the number of times my touch spells critical, thus activating the vortex spells revelation.
I just have to decide if the expanded crit range is worth trading touch attacks for melee attacks.
having to hit regular AC instead of touch is a concern (especially when you're looking at a 3/4 BAB without a ton of combat boosting class abilities). if you go magus 9 you could take accurate strike (turn it back to touch attack)... or if you're willing to sacrifice 1 CL (and your GM is ok with it) you could take 10 levels eldritch knight on the sorc side to increase your BAB (and hp, and get spell critical for some from quickens). otherwise, you just have to decide how often you want vortex spell to work (and what cost you're willing to pay for it).
Mystic Theurge, Eldrith Knight, and Summoner are not allowed.
My arcane pool with this build is too small to take advantage of accurate strike.
With Broad Study(if only I could take it twice) and Close Range as my 2 magus arcana, I can use touch and ray spells with spellstrike. I'll just have to find every way possible to increase my attack bonus to make up for losing the touch attacks.
this is resource intensive (and i don't really even have a sense of how high a level you expect to reach) but if you take Magical Lineage [true strike] as a trait you could quicken it at 8th level (as a 4th level spell) and at 15th could take spell perfection to quicken it as a 1st level spell (and quickened/echoing true strikes as 3rd level spells).
@nate: thanks for all your advice,
between my sorcerer and magus bonus feats i could grab the 3 prereq metemagic feats for spell perfection, so that helps with the resource management somewhat.
as far as max lvl goes, it goes all the way to 20th and beyond - provided we survive that long. and even if it ends sooner I like to plan PC's to 20th just in case they do make it.
EDIT: was just informed that we'll also start at mythic tier 1, with the only way to gain additional tiers being to complete the side quests(1-3) on each dungeon lvl, which will act as our mythic trials.
Just when I think this concept is coming together, the DM adds another layer of complexity. Since I don't own mythic adventures yet, I've got some research to do i guess.
the mythic rules are all posted on the official prd website. its a lot of info to take in at once but archmage is an obvious choice for path. there's also a feat called Dual Path that would potentially give you some flexibility with your mythic abilities (either to gain some power on the divine side or to bolster your melee).
So after checking out the mythic ruleset it looks like Archmage is the obvious path. I'm thinking wild arcana and Mythic Bloodline for my abilities and Mythic Weapon Finesse for my feat. Dual path sounds good, but I think I'll save that one for my tier 3 or 5 feat.
i don't have time to do a full feat breakdown, but i don't really see any benefit for taking mythic weapon finesse? it would grant the same benefit as dervish dance (using rapier instead of scimitar) but costs your mythic feat instead of a normal feat... is there something i'm not seeing? if not, you might want to consider taking dervish dance and a different mythic feat (i still think dual path would be handy, but there are tons of other good ones too).
ps- i think Mors is mistaken about dual path... you need at least 1 mythic tier, not to specifically be first tier. this restriction is listed because most mythic feats can be taken by any creature with 'mythic rank' but this one is only available to those with actual mythic tiers.
i don't have time to do a full feat breakdown, but i don't really see any benefit for taking mythic weapon finesse? it would grant the same benefit as dervish dance (using rapier instead of scimitar) but costs your mythic feat instead of a normal feat... is there something i'm not seeing? if not, you might want to consider taking dervish dance and a different mythic feat (i still think dual path would be handy, but there are tons of other good ones too).
You can use a shield without penalty, and you can use it with any finesse-able weapon, rather than just scimitar.
ps- i think Mors is mistaken about dual path... you need at least 1 mythic tier, not to specifically be first tier. this restriction is listed because most mythic feats can be taken by any creature with 'mythic rank' but this one is only available to those with actual mythic tiers.
Strictly speaking, by the language of the feat, you do indeed need to be 1st mythic tier. This is similar to certain rare feats that can only be taken at 1st character level. However, it may be an oversight or accident; I don't see why they would limit your choice in this way. It is no penance feat, since you get to add the other paths' 1st tier ability.
i don't have time to do a full feat breakdown, but i don't really see any benefit for taking mythic weapon finesse? it would grant the same benefit as dervish dance (using rapier instead of scimitar) but costs your mythic feat instead of a normal feat... is there something i'm not seeing? if not, you might want to consider taking dervish dance and a different mythic feat (i still think dual path would be handy, but there are tons of other good ones too).
1) My normal feats are already all accounted for so there's no room for dervish dance.
2) I don't have the extra skill points to waste on perform(dance) to qualify for dervish dance.3) This lets me start out adding my DEX to damage rolls(vs my negative STR penalty) instead of having to wait 2-3 more levels to get agile put on my rapier.
and 4) I wanted to specifically avoid dervish dance because every other dex-based build out there seems to use it and I don't like my characters to just be imitations of someone Else's.