My campaign has just recently come to a climactic ending, and although it was a satisfying conclusion for pretty much everyone, it leaves us asking the question of what next?
My players have strongly expressed the opinion that they do not what to start another game over at level 1, at least at the present time. After a bit of negotiation, and talking about the potential benefits and drawbacks, we settled on starting at around level 6.
The last campaign was a homebrew, with some overarching features and story elements drawn from an old 3.5 module. While it went well, it was a lot of work to do, and as time is limited, I'd rather do something a bit more pre-constructed this time. I would have liked very much to do a full Adventure Path, as this group has never tried one together, but as I stated before, the attitude of the party was very strongly against a level 1 start.
So my dilemma is this: is there an adventure path that has a reasonable breaking point between book 2-3, or between 3-4, where a new party could come in, and reasonably take over accomplishing the main storyline goal, without requiring a whole hassle of work, modifications, and exposition in order to bring the players up to speed on the story thus far? Our group is comprised of 5 level 6 characters, with a decent balance of classes and abilities. Use of a few house-rules probably ups their power level and APL to around 7-8, so an entry point designed for up to level 8's would be fine. They tend to prefer games heavier on the action/encounter side of things than intrigue, though I am trying to break them out of their shells a bit (most are newer gamers), and encourage more active roleplaying.
Alternatively, if there is a good series of modules that could be used for this kind of game, I'd consider that as well, but an overarching quest/chance to save the world would be nice.
Male Half-Elf Barbarian
Female Human Druid
-Tiger Companion
Female Fetchling Trapsmith Rogue
Female Aasimar Summoner (Default type)
-Quadrupedal melee Eidolon
Male Elven Conjurer Wizard
Thanks for the feedback so far. I'll check out Red Hand of Doom. A first glance seems to indicate it is built for 4 level 5 characters, and some of the forums seem to carry the warning not to try it with higher, as they'll breeze through it and lose most of the tension that makes the campaign memorable.
As for the Adventure Paths; don't most of the 2nd books start at around level 4? To run an AP, I'd probably need one that could lose the first two books, and start around level 7...
Any come to mind?
It would take some reading and work on your part, but maybe the Serpent's Skull AP? The 3rd book starts at level 7, but there are some things you will need to address before doing so. That is the only one I can think of at the moment. I've not read the Reign of Winter's AP, yet. So can't comment on that or the Wrath of Righteous which is going on now. But I myself have from Kingmaker up to current and Serpent's Skull is the best one I can think of. Maybe Skull and Shackle, but again, some reading and background work will need to be done. And I'm not too sure about Skull and Shackle. Just playing the second book right now. Hope that helps some, best of luck!
More great advice. RotRL seems like a frontrunner, based on where the main plot starts. If Crimson throne needs to start half way into book 2, I'd have to think that part over. Jade Regent seems cool, and I'd love to play in it, but my group is newer in general, and as this will be out first Golarion game, I'd rather stay in the inner sea region for now. As well, none of them are the eastern inclined martial arts, samurai, or wuxia fan types, so buy-in might be lower with my group. Serpent Skull is another one I don't know that much about, so I'd have to read up a bit to help decide.
My impression is that Crimson Throne is a lot of intrigue; more dialogue, mystery investigation, and politicking. Am I right about that, or totally off base? Due to the inexperience of my group, and the more combat oriented focus they tend to enjoy, a more simplistic plot might suit them better.
For RotRL, I don't have either version yet, so I would likely by the Anniversary edition, as I think it would be cheaper than the four latter books anyway, and would allow me to run the whole thing in the future if I have a different group with which to do it. For the difficulty of the path, my plan in either case would likely be to run the whole thing a level behind intended; starting at level 6 instead of 7, and keeping them one level behind what is recommended in the book. If that is too easy for them I can stretch that out to two levels over time, and if it is too hard, I can add a support DMPC, such as a cleric, or just level them up to par.
Good advice above, but you could also try Slumbering Tsar, which starts at L.7.
Red Hand of Doom was great and easy to port into your own campaign world. Offers some really cool bad guys and a great end boss.
Well, I've had a little time, and I made my decision. Then my game got put off and I changed my mind. Then I got sick, and the game got put off again, which has given me time to change my mind again. I've pretty much narrowed it down to one of two streams.
Option 2: is simpler, going with modules, likely starting with Realm of the Fellnight queen. Self contained, starts with a wedding, which gives the party a great reason to be drawn together, as they could all be guests of the couple for one reason or another. Has the advantage of being able to move from module to module and better gauge the mood and abilities of the team, but on the other hand is a bit more disjointed, and lacks an overarching megaplot to really get the players engaged.
Any thoughts on which one works better, or specifically, how to make RotRL work for my group, starting at volume 3?
Well, I've had a little time, and I made my decision. Then my game got put off and I changed my mind. Then I got sick, and the game got put off again, which has given me time to change my mind again. I've pretty much narrowed it down to one of two streams.
** spoiler omitted **
Option 2: is simpler, going with modules, likely starting with Realm of the Fellnight queen. Self contained, starts with a wedding, which gives the party a great reason to be drawn together, as they could all be guests of the couple for one reason or another. Has the advantage of being able to move from module to module and better gauge the mood and abilities of the team, but on the other hand is a bit more disjointed, and lacks an overarching megaplot to really get the players engaged.
Any thoughts on which one works better, or specifically, how to make RotRL work for my group, starting at volume 3?
How do you feel about simply 'fast forwarding', assuming these are new characters but starting at 6th or 7th level, what if the party has gone through the events in chapters 1 and 2, but you dont play them out, you just give it as a synopsis? Maybe even having one half of a session where you talk it out, and establish character relationships in a brainstorming fashion as a group? Its pretty important in RoTRL for the party to be connected to sandpoint. So leaving that out entirely wont be a good thing in my opinion, but it could just be added into their character backgrounds.
You could also go with one of the frog god games adventures designed to start at later levels like tsar or Razor Coast
Yeah, I'd say "Any" starting at Book 2 of the various series. The drawback being that if they aren't characters specifically associated with the story-chars, there will be some GM modding required.
I also like Kolokotroni's idea of fast fowarding, saying they WERE involved in the earlier chapter stuff, maybe give them some of the related bonus traits, etc, and then just go from there.
I think Kolokotroni hit the nail on the head with the fastforward idea. After all, these guys weren't just born at 6th lvl. They had to have done something to get to this point. Have them spend maybe the 1st hour discussing their previous exploits as a group (perhaps providing them with the player handouts from the missed sessions if they seem interested), then get into the action from there.
I'm a big fan of the homebrew game.....give it a try and see what you think.
Our last game was essentially a home brew, with some elements just vaguely lifted from modules here or there; ideas that proved to be the inspiration for the developments of the game. It was in some ways a bit of a sandbox, which was probably the wrong approach for this group.
Our group is basically a mix of half who were gamers years and years ago, just newly returned to the hobby, and the other half who are completely new to roleplaying. They are not really that self-motivated, and in game required a lot of coaxing to come out of their shells. In essence, asking them to be too directive was too much for them, and the game really dragged at those points. Think of them as reluctant heroes who need to be coaxed out of retirement, as opposed to young go-getters who are thirsting for adventure. The plot pretty much has to happen to them for them to get involved. Don't get me wrong, they enjoy playing a great deal, as am I, and we all have a lot of fun with it, but they are a bit of a reserved group overall. Essentially, they are still learning.
It's for this reason that I don't think a background tale would work that well. For it to sink in, to be real, they have to experience it. Probably the closest I would be able to get away with would be creating a condensed version of the story, designed to hit all the high points of RotRL modules 1-2 in a quarter the time. However, I have limited prep time, due to life, work, and little kids, so I was hoping to minimize such demands. I really wish I could convince them to start at level 1, but they don't want to go for that.
All this is what is leading me towards using modules. As mentioned, the Fellnight queen module starts off at a good place, and allowing them to all be attending the wedding makes for a good starting place, and a reason to work together when the wedding gets crashed, and then leading in to solving the crisis working together. RotRL does the same at level 1, with all attending the festival, and then defending the town from threats. There is not really such an opportunity to do the same at level 7 without backing up again and creating some sort of mini-campaign allowing them to solve the Skinsaw murders, but again, I don't really have time to put that together.
The more I think about it, the more I think modules might be the way to go.
Remember in Star Wars when the Empire killed Luke's family looking for the droids? He left with Ben when there was nothing left to tie him there. Go with that.
I honestly can't believe no one has offered up Second Darkness. It is the one AP I can think of that is almost universally liked but at the same time everyone thinks that the first volume seems completely out of place with the next five.
If you were going to go with an AP but wanted to skip the first book (or the first two books) I can't imagine one that would be better suited for it than 2nd D.
Thanks Wiggz. I'll check it out.
If you don't want to play anything too long but still want to have a good time with a game, I suggest White Plume Mountain. It's a classic D&D adventure, but has been updated for 3.5 (which means it would be a little bit of work to bring it to Pathfinder). Also it's so much fun and great, featuring less of a heavy plot and a lot more riding a kayak in a river that's suspended in midair and fighting a harpy while on a grease floor. I forget who said it was basically the Dungeons and Dragons amusement park, but it's a fair evaluation.
Plus it's free.