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Spellcasting isn't silent, discreet or always passive. You know nothing bad is going to happen (as do others with the right training), but not everyone does.I agree. But the reaction of others would logically be based on the result of what I cast wouldn't it?
It would be based as much on what that person's past experiences with magic have been. If they have never seen a spell before (most people?), they have no idea what to expect, and probably react badly. If they have seen only healing magic, they might react well. If the only thing they know about magic is that there's an evil wizard that burned a neighbouring town to the ground? Roll for initiative .
Don't be surprised if guards are trained to react to unannounced/unrequested spellcasting with hostility...
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If your PC pulls out a wand and points it at my PC and he has his bow on him, your PC is going to be shot with 5 arrows doing 1d8+19. Now tell me again, how stupid is your PC? Is he stupid enough to point a wand at my PC or his wizard finger? You PC is going to die before the last syllable escapes his lips.
That's the reality of casting spells in public. Your PC gets killed. And my archer's initiative is +14, he will get your guy 90% of the time before your guy get to finish. And he doesn't give 2 bits about whether it was a healing spell, or a benign one. Your PC does it without my PCs permission, they are going into initiative.
If they are party members, that's one thing. Just two strangers at a social gathering, your PC is going to breathe his last.
In someways, I view casting spells as modernday firearms on Earth. Some people wear them openly and no one bats an eye (police, military, etc.), while if you draw a weapon while waiting in line at Star Bucks or at a recpetion with VIPs, then the reaction may be a wee bit different.I've seen several posts suggesting spells are viewed as weapons. I think the perspective is detrimental to a plausible treatment of spell use in society. A gun is created and designed to do one thing. Kill people. That's it. Guns don't clean laundry, heal a wounded persons, or sanitize your food. They kill people. That's it.
Lumping the entire landscape of spell/magic use into the category of "weapon" isn't going to give us an accurate insight into how the average Golarionite is going to view it.
Which is why I updated the scenario to: a smart gun/phone - the device is a gun with a built in smart phone. So the question becomes, are they checking messages or about to shoot? Or would laser may be a better example, as in addition to all of the smart features, it could also be used to weld, transmit data over long distances (without the need for re-transmitters), or kill people.
While I agree that guns primary purpose is to kill, I still think that the smart phone/gun (or laser) is appropriate. You can check your mail, send a text, check the web for almost anything, or you can kill people with it.
Spells are the same way - the cast could be cleaning their outfit, chilling/flavoring their drink, increasing their chances to seduce someone, kill an individual or an area effect spell to kill most to all people in the place.
In a society where magic has been around a long time, where magic wars have been fought (and country sides ravaged - some still uninhabitable centuries later), I would be very leering of strangers casting spells. Even if they were only increasing their seduction chances I would object - if they are being successful, it means that there is a greater chance that I will not be! :)
@RainyDayNinja
I don't think that the knife example sufficiently highlights the possible destructive ability of spells - knives have to go after one target at a time, while guns can fire at multiple targets in the same time frame.
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If your PC pulls out a wand and points it at my PC and he has his bow on him, your PC is going to be shot with 5 arrows doing 1d8+19. Now tell me again, how stupid is your PC? Is he stupid enough to point a wand at my PC or his wizard finger? You PC is going to die before the last syllable escapes his lips
How do you know it is a wand rather than for example a pencil or just a stick? Unless you just cast detect magic yourself of course.
Aside: Hmm, there must be thousands of used empty wands in circulation, otherwise known as sticks. One suspects Golarion children play wizards and dragons with "wands" all the time. Hmm, ambushing someone while disguised as a child playing magic games, that has possibilities...
How do you know that someone pointing a finger is a wizard or that means he is casting a spell at you?
That's the reality of casting spells in public. Your PC gets killed. And my archer's initiative is +14, he will get your guy 90% of the time before your guy get to finish. And he doesn't give 2 bits about whether it was a healing spell, or a benign one. Your PC does it without my PCs permission, they are going into initiative.
Initiative doesn't work that way. Once casting has begun only a readied action could interrupt most spells.
If they are party members, that's one thing. Just two strangers at a social gathering, your PC is going to breathe his last.
So your PC kills anyone at a social gathering who talks and gesticulates at the same time? Does he get many invites? ;-)
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I'm just reading this OP is an attempt to codify the rp of the world to take even more control away from the GM. This seems to be a theme lately from a select few posters.PFS is predicated on providing a consistent experience for the players. It makes a big difference if one GM allows players to whip out scrolls and cast spells to beat DC's and another one kicks the PC out of the party.
If "control" is an issue for someone as a GM then they should stick to AP's or non-PFS games.
It isn't a control or rather power issue. It isn't about ego. This is a tabletop RPG. Not a computer game. GMs are not computer AIs or robots. If you want that level of consistency go play a computer or console game.
In an RPG there is only so much consistency you can apply. Each game is going to be different based on individual GMs preferences and styles. And that is ok. If you find a gm that doesn't fit you, don't play at their table.
But constantly asking to take the human out of the GM is essentially asking them to stop roleplaying. No thank you!
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Why not?
I assume that in order to enter the Grand Lodge, cross the grounds, and meet with Aram Zey in a room containing the Hao Jin Tapestry, you probably had to go through some "airport security" of a magical nature. No one needs to spend table time on that (though some tables would enjoy it if they have the time!) and there's definitely no need to spend precious word count on it in scenarios.
This interests me, because since it isn't written down, players just don't expect it to happen. I continually get into situations where I want to cast detect magic on an NPC as a way of sizing them up, especially when they're a Pathfinder themselves. But the GM will often say "You just cast it right there while they're watching and everything?"
Quite a few people in the world don't have spellcraft (heck a lot of characters that cast detect magic don't have spellcraft) - as you begin casting detect magic they don't know it as any different as Dominate Person, Create Undead, Fireball, or any type of spell they don't like. So I would think most people would react very negatively to spell casting.
And since Spellcraft is a trained only skill - there is probably a lot of paranoia.
Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.
I am not sure that I agree.
On page 221 of the Core, it says that the spell-like abilities have no verbal, somatic or material components. That it is mentally activated. To me, the fact that it provokes AoO, means that you have to concentrate on it to such an extend that you are leaving small openings in your defense (in a similar nature as drinking a potion), not that it is obvious that you are activating a spell-like ability.
Detect Evil also has a 10 min/level duration (if maintained/concentrated on). So the Paladin could cast it outside/out of sight, then walk into the party/bar, and look around.
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What an awesome thread! John, I really look forward to that blog and hope it comes to fruition! I have thought about many of the things touched on in this thread numerous times. I like to think about the 3.5 Eberron books when I think about things like this. The book Sharn, City of Towers described all sorts of details like this. They had descriptions of the security you had to go through when entering the city and entering certain districts of the city. There was a list of spells that were banned from use. Any spell that charmed people or attempted to control them was highly illegal. Sharn had basically two punishments, gold fine or death. Jailtime was reserved for political prisoners, everyone else is either executed or pays a fine. You would receive a flat 25gp reward from the town guard if you saved someone with feather fall who had fallen from a tower and is plummeting to their doom. If you took a skyship, security would confiscate any magic items you had that could produce fire or potentially damage the ship. I would be really excited to see some of these expanded details make it into Pathfinder. Time to re-read some Eberron books :)
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Take a look at the arcane spells in the rulebooks. You're going to find that the vast majority of them are essentially battle magic, and of the rest, very very few do things which are useful in society. So spells for the most part aren't that different than guns.
Divine magic gets a bit more of a pass, but customarily it's used only in appropriate areas, such as temple grounds. That assumption of course is based on being openly identifiable as a servant of an accepted diety. A Sarenrae priest casting spells in Taldor is asking for serious trouble.
Of course, the rulebooks are primarily written for adventurers. I'm sure there are plenty of spells out there for helping crops grow, doing spreadsheet calculations, parlor games, etc. Not to mention the incredible utility of spells like prestidigitation, spark, light, mending, purify food and drink, illusion and evocation spells for entertaining children, and so on.
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Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.
Drinking a potion also provides an AoO and so does drinking a beer. Its still not a hostile action.
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So your PC kills anyone at a social gathering who talks and gesticulates at the same time? Does he get many invites? ;-)
Cute but my PC doesn't go to a party carrying his longbow. That's another of those faux pas things. But pointing a wand at my PC in any situation is going to make him head for cover. And there are things that perception does allow you to deal with, like reacting to an ambush. When you're a lvl. 11 fighter, you sort of always walk around on edge. (Some folks call it PTSD.) 18 years ago I saw a Marine drop to the ground in the middle of my college campus when a car backfired. He was a survivor of the whole Somalia non-sense and I knew that because he was in my class.
And someone pointing a wand at me, would definitively qualify as a potential ambush situation. So I would get a perception roll.
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Drinking a potion also provides an AoO and so does drinking a beer. Its still not a hostile action.Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.
Careful there, Calden Cayden frowns heavily on that sort of alcohol abuse...
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There are so many instances which can be interesting. I have a PC's Eidolon who, when he encounters Andoran officals, asks them why he can't be an Eagle knight like his person (seems odd to the Eidolon, especially with Andoran's ideology) and both the PC and the Eidolon ask that the Eidolon be treated politely...for example, being offered a seat at the table.
I've never had a problem 'in game' with such behavior, but a while back when describing this online to a DM, they reacted along the lines of 'how dare you bring your 'animal' to the Blackros Wedding and basically didn't react well when I explained another Summoner/Eidolon I played with locally thought of themselves as husband and wife.
I think what is important is with spells or whatever is that GM and the players are on the same page.
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I think thats a bit of a pipe dream. There are way too many different NPCs to write out rules for their reactions to everything they might come across.I think what is important is with spells or whatever is that GM and the players are on the same page.
I think you misunderstand slightly. All I mean is, when a player and a GM come to a point when they realize that the PCs expect one reaction on one underlying assumption and get something else they should take a second to understand each other. This can be a player playing with the underlying attitude 'eidolons are intelligent beings to be treated respectfully' faces a GM acting on his assumption that 'Eidolons are somewhere between slave and animal' is one such assumption. Another is a player casts a spell and doesn't expect the DM to have every NPC treats it as a hostile act.
When a GM and player realize they are in that situation, they should, ideally, see if one or the other are misinterpreting the situation and then get on the same page.
Considering that people in this thread have very different understandings of what constitutes 'socially acceptable' magic, it seems worthwhile that when we see that we aren't seeing eye to eye, we should be aware of it take a second to try to when we encounter it in game.
And I realize this is an ideal, not always reality.
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To alleviate this issue is to write a new book of mundane spells. A spell list for adepts. Spells that do things so ordinary and trivial that they take up 1/4 the size in a spellbook/slot of normal spells when learning them.
0th level
Pluck Bird
Bait Line
Pick Up Laundry
Steep Tea
Stir Pot
Dust Shelf
Wash Hands
Do Dishes
Turn Page
1st level
Muck Stable
Rock Crib
Knit Sweater
Baste Turkey
Discipline Child
Remove Stain
2nd Level
Plow Field
Cobble Street
Cobble Shoe
Make Fancy Hairdo
Powder Nose
Remove Stubborn Stain
3rd level
Remove Ridiculously Resilient Stain
Grind Wheat
Come Up with New Mundane Spell
4th Level
Read Mundane Book (The spells reads for you, but you learn nothing. The inventor of this spell was not very strong in terms of foresight.)
Summon Footstool
Paint Picture
Remove Adamantine Grass Stain
5th Level
Remove Epic Stain
Raise Child (not at all like raise dead)
6th Level
Remove Mustard Stain
Raise Children (the mass version of raise child)
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Dieben, most of those spells already exist. They're covered by prestidigitation. That doesn't mean that prestidigitation is so common that the average Joe will recognize it on sight. Perhaps the average adventurer, but really that's the purview of the spellcraft skill. Spellcraft wouldn't be "Trained Only" if they wanted everyone to be able to tell the difference between a harmless cantrip and a fireball.
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Dieben, most of those spells already exist. They're covered by prestidigitation. That doesn't mean that prestidigitation is so common that the average Joe will recognize it on sight. Perhaps the average adventurer, but really that's the purview of the spellcraft skill. Spellcraft wouldn't be "Trained Only" if they wanted everyone to be able to tell the difference between a harmless cantrip and a fireball.
I dunno. Shouldn't that be covered by the same rule as DC 10 Knowledge checks?
Able to make an untrained Spellcraft check up to a DC 10.
And note that some spells, like Prestidigitation, Create Water, Detect Magic, etc., have a base of 5 + level, like common monsters, like skeletons or zombies, that anyone Golarion can easily recognize?
"Oh, look, Johann is playing at being a valet, again. Never tire of that Prestidigitation cantrip, do you, Johann?"
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Dieben, most of those spells already exist. They're covered by prestidigitation. That doesn't mean that prestidigitation is so common that the average Joe will recognize it on sight. Perhaps the average adventurer, but really that's the purview of the spellcraft skill. Spellcraft wouldn't be "Trained Only" if they wanted everyone to be able to tell the difference between a harmless cantrip and a fireball.I dunno. Shouldn't that be covered by the same rule as DC 10 Knowledge checks?
Able to make an untrained Spellcraft check up to a DC 10.
And note that some spells, like Prestidigitation, Create Water, Detect Magic, etc., have a base of 5 + level, like common monsters, like skeletons or zombies, that anyone Golarion can easily recognize?
"Oh, look, Johann is playing at being a valet, again. Never tire of that Prestidigitation cantrip, do you, Johann?"
Source? I don't see that anywhere in the description for Spellcraft.
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The introduction to the Players Guide to Ptolus (free PDF download) written by D&D 3rd edition co-designer Monte Cook is how I envisioned Absalom was with its attitudes to magic.
I loved it when one day a player of mine said, “I polymorph myself into a troll and run out into the street after the thief.”
Another player said, “Dude, you can’t go out there like that!”
And the first player replied, “Don’t worry about it! This is Ptolus—they see this stuff all the time.”
I knew then that the first player really got Ptolus.
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I'm sorry ZomB but Ptolus is not Golarion. Magic isn't available in every shop and village from one end of the Inner Sea to another. Your PC may rub shoulders with powerful wizards, necromancers, paladins and ninjas. But the average Joe on the street doesn't even know what a ninja is and a necromancer is someone to be burned in the town square. Wizards are to be avoided and feared, while a Paladin is a nobleman to be bowed to.
The whole idea that everyone sees magic and that its kosher to cast spells in public is only possible if every fifth person is a spell-caster. And that may be true for your party but that isn't true for the world we play in.
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Eric:
Absolom is that cosmopolitan... even if the rest of golarion isn't.
Seriously, the Star wars cantina song should be the national anthem
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Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.I am not sure that I agree.
On page 221 of the Core, it says that the spell-like abilities have no verbal, somatic or material components. That it is mentally activated. To me, the fact that it provokes AoO, means that you have to concentrate on it to such an extend that you are leaving small openings in your defense (in a similar nature as drinking a potion), not that it is obvious that you are activating a spell-like ability.
Detect Evil also has a 10 min/level duration (if maintained/concentrated on). So the Paladin could cast it outside/out of sight, then walk into the party/bar, and look around.
But you can't just equate it to looking intently at someone, because that doesn't provoke.
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Drinking a potion also provides an AoO and so does drinking a beer. Its still not a hostile action.Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.
I didn't say it was a hostile action. It is certainly more than just looking intently at someone.
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I thought the parallels between the cities of Ptolus and Absalom were close enough for Absalom to have a cosmopoltian attitude towards magic and the Ptolus intro page to be useful. Not saying that applies throughout Golarion - just the major cities.
It is possibly indicative of how the 3rd edition design team thought, which I thought was relevant.
However, the only official Paizo info we have on attitudes so far is the paragraph in the Inner Sea Guide quoted above. I will have a look at the Guide to Absalom when it arrives (Golem sale order).
We do know from the PFS Guide that:
- you can purchase magic items on the always available list from any town with 5000+ population
- spell casters are available to cast spells for a fee in _every_ settlement in Golarion
Generally speaking, you can pay to have spells cast on
you at any time during the scenario so long as you’re in a
settlement or have access to a temple, shrine, or wandering
mystic. Page 163 of the Core Rulebook covers the rules for
purchasing spellcasting services and the associated costs
are listed in the Spellcasting and Services table on page 159.
For Pathfinder Society Organized Play, PCs may only
purchase spells with a total cost of above 3,000 gp by visiting
a settlement with more than 5,000 residents. Any settlement
smaller than that will have a mystic or full-blown wizard or
cleric who can cast spells that cost fewer than 3,000 gp, but
never more.
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I have read this thread with great interest.
Unfortunately I think there is an unresolvable conflict between canon (and this is where I see the OPs question fall into) and rules.
I'm a Pathfinder Tales subscriber and I love the books as they both tell a great story but also as in each tale they try to give some more background for some country and class. The latest one deals with the River Kingdoms, a Gunslinger and a Summoner / Eidolon.
It is interesting how the gunslinger is introduced, his gun mistaken for a magic wand by some people.
It makes a lot of sense for a story - you are far away from Alkenstar - so nobody there ever has seen a gun before. Surely a gunslinger in such areas would get modifications in social settings after he used his gun. Stealth down, diplomacy down, intimidate up.
But it doesn't translate into PFS play where you travel the whole world and we expect that something works as we expect it. So sometimes as GM we just have to step back and something that isn't 100% kosher because of canon will still work as RAW.
The problem is - canon isn't universal.
So back to the original topic. There are a lot of examples given here where I feel they won't be social acceptable and would cause issues. At the same time it is likely I wouldn't give the spell user any grief at the table.
Otherwise what should I make from the following - the half-orc hero who gets a bounty on his head by a very influential person because he wants to marry his daughter - and is an half-orc.
So from a point of canon I should include racial prejudice and apply a minus to any half-orc (add other strange races here as well). From a point of rules I should not.
RAW trumps canon. But if players and GM try to follow more canon how they behave and not just claims RAW this is allowed then we gained a lot through this thread.
After all - we play in Golarion - a world of many facets and the rules are too blunt an instrument to tell you in every corner of the world what is acceptable or not.
But you can't just equate it to looking intently at someone, because that doesn't provoke.Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.I am not sure that I agree.
On page 221 of the Core, it says that the spell-like abilities have no verbal, somatic or material components. That it is mentally activated. To me, the fact that it provokes AoO, means that you have to concentrate on it to such an extend that you are leaving small openings in your defense (in a similar nature as drinking a potion), not that it is obvious that you are activating a spell-like ability.
Detect Evil also has a 10 min/level duration (if maintained/concentrated on). So the Paladin could cast it outside/out of sight, then walk into the party/bar, and look around.
Then could you explain what it is? It is a wholly mental ability, no movement or talking needed.
The description of attacks of opportunity (p180 Core) says "Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or take s a reckless action." Bolded for emphasis.
From that, I am taking it to mean that the action of using a spell-like ability is simply intense concentration for part of 6 seconds - nothing obvious about it if the spell effect itself has no visible manifestation (but a nice opening if in a fight).
So a paladin using their detect evil spell-like ability simply appears to intensely looking somewhere/at something/someone initially, then a bit less so (after the spell is cast and now only requires concentration).
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I dunno. Shouldn't that be covered by the same rule as DC 10 Knowledge checks?
Able to make an untrained Spellcraft check up to a DC 10.
And note that some spells, like Prestidigitation, Create Water, Detect Magic, etc., have a base of 5 + level, like common monsters, like skeletons or zombies, that anyone Golarion can easily recognize?
"Oh, look, Johann is playing at being a valet, again. Never tire of that Prestidigitation cantrip, do you, Johann?"
Spellcraft isn't a "Knowledge" skill, and even if it were, "common" knowledge only lowers the DC by 5. Identifying a "common" spell as it is being cast would, under your house rule, be DC 10+spell level. Still to high to be used untrained except on cantrips, which is reasonable.
Identifying a spell that just targeted you is a DC 25+spell level Knowledge (Arcana) check. A "common" spell might only be DC 20+spell level. Seems like the rules don't want people to be able to identify magic without training. Seems like maybe the average Joe doesn't have much of a chance to identify even common spells like the cure light wounds the priest just cast to fix his broken leg.
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I think there are at least two conversations going on here:
1) Discussing magic and its social dynamics as a setting backdrop.
2) Trying to establish what constitutes a threatening magical act.
The first is essentially harmless for rules in game, as it is enriching the setting and enhancing role-play and immersion.
It is clear from the differing opinions on the second that different GMs potentially _already_ give different diplomacy or intimidate modifiers (+/-2), and possibly different starting attitudes of bystanders (+/-5) depending on magic use.
Now that is unlikely to noticeably affect important NPCs as their starting attitudes are normally fixed. So I don't think it is a big deal. It will however lead to potentially jarring though interesting differences in setting backdrop presented by different GMs.
So in my opinion its a "nice to have" to get folks on the same page with regards to setting attitudes to magic, but its not a "must have" - as then it would already have been addressed. A possibly contentious blog post sounds just fine ;-)
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We do know from the PFS Guide that:
- you can purchase magic items on the always available list from any town with 5000+ population
- spell casters are available to cast spells for a fee in _every_ settlement in Golarion
That's right ZomB. PFS, this is a very important distinction.
The Hao Jin Tapestry is the PFS version of the Star Gate. We have contacts in every town of 5,000+ people and they call in support when they get into a heap of trouble.
That does not mean every adventurer on Golarion has access to the same things. Only Pathfinder Society members do.
Scenario: Bob, Jane and Dick got into a heated discussion with some orcs. Bob ate it. My PC Sigmar a lvl. 11 Cleric, is called upon by the Society to cast a Raise Dead spell on him because the local contact/VC in some dung heap on the ass end of Golarion called up HQ to get someone to come and cast raise dead on the lvl. 6 fighter and my PC who is in Absalom, between missions, drinking himself senseless at the local dive bar, got tapped on the shoulder, to do this favor for Ambrus Valsin.
This does not mean that every town of 5,000+ people has a lvl. 9 cleric who can or more importantly will, cast a Raise Dead or a Resurrection. What it means is that the Pathfinder Society is a very powerful organization with a very long reach and it has a lot of resources like my lvl. 11 Cleric, to call on, when stuff hits the fan. :)
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I didn't say it was a hostile action. It is certainly more than just looking intently at someone.Drinking a potion also provides an AoO and so does drinking a beer. Its still not a hostile action.Is the guy in armor who is looking intently at you using Detect Evil, or is he simply paying attention to what you are saying, the way polite people are supposed to?The fact that an SLA provokes an AoO means it is obviously more.
Heh. Kind of makes me want to roll up a lore warden - one with max ranks in Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility), and Profession (lawyer). He'll gaze very intently at all he converses with, because he's an intense sort, and when they flip out and assault him for or accuse him of employing detect spells upon them, he will sue their pants off for aggravated assault and/or slander because he won't have one iota of magical capability. After all, he's just trying to run an honest law firm here!
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True, true, but we also have guys who can teleport or fly my PC in, I cast a spell and then home we go again, where I can get back to drowning my PTSD from battling a Wraith, at the bottom of a bottle.
Suffice to say, the point is that every settlement of 5,000+ people does not automatically have access to every spell caster level imaginable. That's a perk only available to PFS members, who can say "I know a guy, back in Absalom." The local adventurers are probably hoofing it to the local capital of 100,000+ to get their major spell casting done.
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Dieben, most of those spells already exist. They're covered by prestidigitation. That doesn't mean that prestidigitation is so common that the average Joe will recognize it on sight. Perhaps the average adventurer, but really that's the purview of the spellcraft skill. Spellcraft wouldn't be "Trained Only" if they wanted everyone to be able to tell the difference between a harmless cantrip and a fireball.
Adepts do not receive prestidigitation, thus the creation of my mundane spell list.
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True, true, but we also have guys who can teleport or fly my PC in, I cast a spell and then home we go again, where I can get back to drowning my PTSD from battling a Wraith, at the bottom of a bottle.
Suffice to say, the point is that every settlement of 5,000+ people does not automatically have access to every spell caster level imaginable. That's a perk only available to PFS members, who can say "I know a guy, back in Absalom." The local adventurers are probably hoofing it to the local capital of 100,000+ to get their major spell casting done.
According to the Gamemastery Guide—which is not specific to PFS—even the tiniest little community has access to at least 1st-level spellcasting. You only have to get more than 20 people in a settlement to have 2nd-level spells, 61 people for 3rd, etc.
That is how common magic is, for whatever ramifications that has.
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So, the percentage of 1st level spell casters on Golarion is roughly 20% of the population? Yeah, I have a feeling that the Game Mastery guide might be a bit off. But I won't argue with what you are claiming, since I'm sure its there.
Its a poorly written hypothesis, but if its there then we have a lvl. 3 spell caster for every 20 people.
I'm amazed that these people need heroes, with such an abundance of lvl. 3s.
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I can just imagine the Bank of Abadar where every single teller has access to both of those spells and every one of them uses them as much as possible, because it's better to be safe than sorry.Plus detect chaos, probably. ;)
And yeah, I figure a town guard letting himself be scanned by detect magic and other simple divinations is equivalent of a real-life law enforcement officer showing their badge. Standard procedure for officer-civilian interactions.
It is more like asking the police officer that stopped you to check if you were driving while drunk to be the one that will use the breath analyzer and give the blood sample.
And yeah, I figure a town guard letting himself be scanned by detect magic and other simple divinations is equivalent of a real-life law enforcement officer showing their badge. Standard procedure for officer-civilian interactions.Oooh, yeah! It should be part of the routine.
Here's what I'd hope for. When a PC casts detect magic on an NPC, even if that NPC is momentarily taken aback, the PC should just be able to say "Oh, I'm sorry. Look, it was just detect magic. No big deal." And it would be, and everyone would move on.
I like this baseline idea. What is the routine in a city like Absalom. Or for guard stations into Kyonin. Or just for a caravan being approached by a traveling merchant. Or for four Pathfinders meeting up with a shadowy contact in the Puddles.
Before comparing using magic to speaking to the pone or similar stuff, you must look how many spells, cantrip included, can be deadly.
It is like having someone causally waving a loaded rifle under your nose. He can he a hunting aficionado or a a clay pigeon shooter showing his last buy, but it is still dangerous.Magical security checks in locations that need to stay secure, like a Bank of Adabar? Sure.
Casually casting of detect magic as soon as you meet someone? No.
the next time you go to a work meeting, try asking the other people to accept a low penetration x-ray scan to check if they are carrying weapons and see what is their reply.
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We know from the Gamemastery guide the _minimum_ prevalence of casters in settlements of any size. There are at least the following and probably more, though distribution will vary widely from settlement to settlement:
Level 1 caster for every 20 people - everybody knows one
Level 2 caster for every 60 people
Level 3 caster for every 200 people
Level 4 caster for every 2000 people
Level 5 caster for every 5000 people
Level 6 caster for every 10000 people
Level 7 caster for every 25000 people - though these are restricted in PFS
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According to the Gamemastery Guide—which is not specific to PFS—even the tiniest little community has access to at least 1st-level spellcasting. You only have to get more than 20 people in a settlement to have 2nd-level spells, 61 people for 3rd, etc.That is how common magic is, for whatever ramifications that has.
No !!
I did an earlier reply that got eaten when my iPad ran out of juice. So this also should be in reply to ZomB.
This is exactly the logical fallacy that I tried to elude to in my earlier post about canon and rules.
In that post I tried to make the point that you can't use canon (or the world of Golarion as described) to derive rules. There would have to be thousands of modifiers.
I remember the Keep to the Borderlands and the shop in the keep - including inventory. We would need to go to this detail - listing every single settlement with spell caster etc.
And by the way - the number of spell casters has to be A LOT higher as 5%.
A settlement of 20 needs
A druid or ranger to cast Goodberry
A paladin to cast Bless Weapon
A Wizard or Sorceror to cast Burning Hands
A cleric to cast Bane
A Bard to cast Lullaby
A Ranger to cast Animal Messenger
I guess I could find reasons to add witches, alchemist and other new spell caster classes as well into EACH settlement to fulfill the need to have someone capable to cast every single level 0 or level 1 spell in every single book.
Rules are there to allow the player to know what he can expect. Rules do simplify some aspects of the world to keep them at a minimum.
Canon and background is there to allow the player to get immersed into the world.
The GM is there to bridge the conflict between rules and canon. In a good story told you might not even notice possible logical flaws.
Players who restrain themselves not to poke holes into this by outlining through there actions every single logical flaw make the lives of GMs a lot easier.
The alternative is to scrap all of the background and Golarion and replace it with numbers. Settlement. Because this is what rules are about if you strip off any fluff that leads to inconsistencies or logical flaws if you compare the game world to real live.
Any attempt to derive a perfect match of Golarion from the rules or to derive rules from the description of Golarion is futile apart of being a mental exercise.