Feint vs Crane Wing

[Stephen Ede]

Quote:

Crane Wing - Benefit: Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.

Quote:

Feint - Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

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Question - If you successfully Feint against someone using Crane Wing can they deflect your attack?

As I see it the arguments are -

A) Feint denies the target their Dex bonus but doesn't specifically say they are flat footed therefore Crane Wing would work. Given that been denied your Dex bonus is different from been Flat-footed.

B) A successful Feint means the target is unaware of the real attack (which is why they loose their Dex bonus) and therefore they can't use Crane Wing.

Which argument is valid, or is there another argument I'm missing?

Thanks

[Evilserran]

I would rule, as a dm, that they still get their attack. My rationale is because they are actually fighting defensively, not just fighting normally. They are actively watching for incoming maneuvers with the preparation to counter them. You still get to attack their lowered ac on the attack, and following attacks tyhat round. Furthermore, a maneuver should not be able to negate a feat (my own belief)with so much ease.

However, i would probably give crane wing user a -2 to counter if they had the following feat to try and balance out and make the feint somewhat useful.

For those who will cry that's unfair and whats the point of the feint, you are (most likely) attacking a monk, reducing his AC by dex which is a big deal, and as crane wing can only block the one attack, it opens the door for the rest of the melee to hit that round as well as following attacks made by feinter.

RAW A.

[karkon]

Argument A is the correct answer.

[Stephen Ede]

Evilserran wrote:

However, i would probably give crane wing user a -2 to counter if they had the following feat to try and balance out and make the feint somewhat useful.

I don't understand. -2 to what? Crane Wing is a free deflection of a successful attack. The Defender using Crane Wing doesn't make nay rolls.

So if I have it correct you think the Defender should still be able to deflect 1 successful attack even after the attacker successfully feinted?

Thanks

[Evilserran]

You missed half the sentence, i said to the counter for the following feat. Crane riposte i think it is called, where you counterattack the deflection.

[Claxon]

RAW the answer is that Crane Wing still works.

I however, would run it the other way because I think a successful feint represents misdirecting your opponent causing him to be "unaware" of the attack. Otherwise, without a very specific set of feats it will be near impossible for feinting against a monk (or anyone else with Crane Wing) to be possible since it requires a large feat investment to be able to feint and do more than 1 attack in a round.

[Stephen Ede]

Evilserran wrote:

You missed half the sentence, i said to the counter for the following feat. Crane riposte i think it is called, where you counterattack the deflection.

I see. Sorry I didn't pick that up in the initial reading.