Animals are "nerfed" when they become companions?

[lowew]

Hey guys, just a few quick observations to make sure I understand it right. Animals are actually nerfed when they become companions, they lose their racial feats, and they seem to suffer a constitution hit (which they get back later through the companion leveling track).

Example: Pony pg 177 Bestiary.

The pony in the bestiary has a 14 Con, and two racial feats, Run and Endurance. However when it becomes an animal companion, as per pg 54 CRB, it's con is now a 12, and it loses Run and Endurance.

I've noticed the seems to be the case with every companion I looked at it, it loses its feats and seem to suffer an ability hit.

Is that right? The pony that is a companion starts off weaker than a regular pony (It gets much MUCH better as it levels up with its master, I get that)and is featless?

Seems a bit harsh if so.

Thanks.

[Nefreet]

Think of it as starting out with a young version of an animal that grows up under your tutelage.

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

EDIT: thought I read something I didn't

An animal companion gains HD as it's masters progress, meaning that they do get feats. What's more is that you choose the feats, so animal companions are more customization to what you need.

They do suffer a bit at the beginning levels as to their strength. Compared to other animals, ACs are weaker when the druid is low level. However, an AC of a 20th level druid is bound to be stronger than most, if not all, animals, including it's brothers.

[Lightminder]

Noble beasts book has all kinds of cool feats etc.. And a new class for beasties called greater familiar. Nice twist of a human sidekick to a Micah bird sorcerer...

[lowew]

..but I am interpreting correctly? Animal who are companions lose their racial feats like, run and endurance, so if you as a druid or ranger really like those feats, they would need to be taken again?

BTW thanks all for the super quick replies, nice forum here!

[Rynjin]

lowew wrote:

..but I am interpreting correctly? Animal who are companions lose their racial feats like, run and endurance, so if you as a druid or ranger really like those feats, they would need to be taken again?

Yep.

Think of it as less of a "nerf" and more of a slate wiping. The Animal Companion is a blank slate, the Druid can customize it as he chooses. If he chooses to give it back its racial Feats, good. If not, that's good too.

So sure, it starts off weaker, but it ends up stronger (and it doesn't take all that long for it to happen), and mor etailored to teh specific Druid/Ranger.

[Mojorat]

lowew wrote:

..but I am interpreting correctly? Animal who are companions lose their racial feats like, run and endurance, so if you as a druid or ranger really like those feats, they would need to be taken again?

BTW thanks all for the super quick replies, nice forum here!

The problem is your comparing a lvl 1 companion to a base animal that is slightly higher by 2 or 3 HD of course its weaker, for the same reason a human warrior is weaker than say a gnoll warrior.

Try comparing the pony when its master is say level 6.

[Argent Snow]

other example: Iguanodon.

Once it is large and adult (at lvl 7) it has a statline of
Str 27, Dex 15, Con 19 ; lvl 7, 1 ability gain unallocated
Str 27, Dex 14, Con 19 ; Bestiary Entry of the animal

ok, so the /adult/ Iguanodon companion is a tad better.

Pony:
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14 ; lvl 4 Companion, 1 Stat gain unallocated
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 14 ; Animal

Again, taking the lvl X fain (pony at 4) as their point of Adulthood, they are better, in case of a pony even significantly.

Roc:
Str 22, Dex 19, Con 14 ; lvl 7 companion - LARGE
Str 28, Dex 15, Con 17 ; Animal - GARGANTUM

The difference is partly size: large to gargantum is +16/–2/+8, changing the companion to
Str 38, Dex 17, Con 22
if he would stop to lvl at 7 and just increase its size to gargantum. So even for a young Roc this should be considdered above average, as a roc at merely large size should have stats such as
Str 12, Dex 17, Con 9

=> an Animal Companion starts possibly a bit lesser as it is young, but once the lvl x gain is through, it is much better than the base animal!

[Rikkan]

It is just that animal companions and real animals are completely different creatures.
For example: an animal with good eyesight (racial bonus)
Yet animal companions never gain racial bonuses, because they are not actually that animal.

Or look at the leopard animal companion, it loses its rake and claw abilities, yet unlike the real animal gains a sprint ability.

[Azothath]

that would be cool if they were made outta brightly colored foam!

ohhh... the other nerfed. lol...
It all depends on the level of the character. At first level, yes, less powered (usually). At 5th level better, and by 11th they are darn good critters!
It's best to think of animal companions as something representative of your power rather than a single animal. As you grow so do they, and often Characters trade out their companions as they die or seek better ones to associate with.

[Mystic Lemur]

They are different because they aren't the same. An Animal Companion is a (roughly) balanced statblock that is flavored like a certain animal. It's a class feature, so each companion has to be close in power with the other choices. So in this case, it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, but it's really an animal companion, so it probably won't have the same stats as a duck. ;)