This GM needs some advice.

[Generic GM]

A little over a year ago I kicked off my first campaign. I made a world, hundreds of NPCs, continents, lore, and much more. I started off with a group of 7. Then one of my members left this summer on his holy mission (he is a mormon so he will be gone for 2 years). He was one of my best players and a good friend. I was able to recruit two more players. In my group of 8 I have one player who attends every once in awhile (this pc is basically the green ranger of the group), and another one of my players has had shaky attendance lately due to work and his band commitments. Today I lost a pc because I had a couple in my group and they split up. So... I lost a player in their break up. I have also been informed that I may lose another pc this January seeing as he may be getting a job out of state. So, my question is should I just wrap my game up and call it a day? I love GMing a great deal, but it adds stress. My folks, my dad in particular, believe that D&D is basically evil. My dad thinks it is weird and thinks that my hobby has consumed my life. So I guess I am just wondering have any of y'all been in this situation before? Do any of you have words of wisdom for a ragged GM? Thank you for your time.

[Sissyl]

First things first:

Number of players: A campaign with EIGHT players is a big thing. It's exceedingly stressful, at least if everyone wants the spotlight. I have done many years of it, and I can't reliably handle more than six, maybe seven. To be honest, a campaign of four is a lot easier, and usually more fun. It also seems you have no real problem finding players, so maybe it's not the end of the world? Certainly don't call it quits over not having eight players anymore.

As regards to your dad... well, world building is time consuming. If you make entire continents, there's bound to be other things you don't do. If you still live at home, maybe a real problem does exist? When was the last time you met people outside of gaming? Has it consumed your life? If so... don't do that to yourself. As in everything, you need to find a balance. Far better to have a functioning life and play a bit less than to have only roleplaying.

[Generic GM]

Well with half of my group missing how would they carry on? I mean they lost half of their party. I guess I like having a larger group because if one or even two people are messing we can carry on without a hitch, but with half gone I'm not sure. Though I think I may try it with 4 if I do it again.

I see your points in regards to my dad. I do have other things in my life other than my game. I actually have achieved some personal goals recently, and I would say that I am becoming a healthier person. I have a good friend who got into RPG's about the same time that I did and I would say that they did become his world. Which is something I strive to avoid.

Thanks for your advice Sissyl. I appreciate it.

[wraithstrike]

There have been times I have gone for almost a year without playing because I had no players. It is nice to have groups where people stay together for years and year, but life happens. People get jobs, get families, and they can cause scheduling problems or even force them to leave the group. It happens. Don't get too depressed about it. Just try to find more more players, and if you are wondering, I don't have an abundance of players to choose from. I play online now, and it has probably been two years since I have rolled physical dice.

PS: I also think 8 players is a lot. I prefer 4 to 6. If you do have to stop playing dont let it get to you.

[Sissyl]

I find it awkward to play with only two players and a GM. Three to four players, though, is excellent. If I had a choice, I would say five or six players in a full group, to allow for missing people, is optimal.

[Kurthnaga]

No reason to get rid of all your hard work. Even if the current campaign must end for reasons known or as of yet unforeseen, you should still definitely build off of what you've done so far. And beyond telling you that GMing for 8 is difficult, I will commend you for doing so. Devoting your time in order to make eight individuals' days more enjoyable is an impressive feat. And if you need a bit of a break, definitely take one. If you still have an interest in keeping this campaign going, or starting a new one a few recommendations I have are to

*Talk to one of your more dependable players about perhaps picking up the burden for a future campaign if you wish to continue
*Consider playing an Adventure Path to reduce yours or the future GM's workload
*Consider increasing the amount of time in between play sessions
*Talk with your group about how they feel about the future of the campaign

Good luck and good work.

[Calybos1]

Or, you could switch to purely episodic one-shot adventures. Many a GM has tried to craft a grand, sweeping epic, only to find that half of his audience has walked out halfway into the story, and the other half doesn't remember what happened in Part 1.

Life happens.

[Helaman]

I've written up entire worlds, campaigns, adventures and maps and everything in between in my time. None of it is wasted.

At worst? You lose the notes and move on. But the core concepts? The writing skills? They'll stick with you and you'll circle back to them. At best? You'll get them into some sort of eletronic format and keep them. You can always come back to the world/campaign later.

Have a look at obsidianportal.com - its a free hosting service for campaigns and RPGs (though the paid option is reasonable too). It will take some time but IF your campaign falls apart? Take your notes, maps etc and enter them on the site and refine as you go... trust me when I say the quality of your writing and concepts/house rules WILL improve as you review them before typing them in. That way? Next time you get the right mix of players together, you are ready to rock and roll.

I've a Carrion Crown campaign entered on the site, incl. house rules etc just waiting for the day I am ready to run it. I also enjoyed putting the site together. Back in the days when HTML coding was something you had to teach yourself, I put together a Masks of Nyarlathotep campaign and posted it, including home made e-clues like news paper cut outs and telegrams. Ultimately I stopped supporting the site as the group lasted two sessions BUT I still have those pages of code and graphics! I can run a prepped campaign with little effort support/site wise.

Finally, in regards to your campaign size, I throw in with the others in saying, that 4-5 players is a good amount and fits with most of Paizo's stuff (yeah, I know its your stuff but still...). Don't shut down because you hit 4 ppl. Refine your game, alter your plot or story line and just look forward to recruiting new players or regaining old ones if your personal sweet spot is 8. Its easier to get a campaign revved up thats in play than try to jump start one thats in hiatus.

Parents thinking it is an evil time sink? Been there, got the t-shirt. It helps if you budget your time (prep and play) and be more out in the world for the rest of it. Get a job over the summer, take an interest in whatever family activities are out there etc. Your Father is likely like mine was, not understanding how interesting we find our hobby and how much we enjoy it. Like me, you MAY be spending a bit too much time in it and not enough time relating to your family and their lives. Your Father likely also wants to see you get ahead in 'the real world' and so every time you disappear into your books it frustrates him. Meeting him half way (esp. if you are still living/studying at home) is a smart thing to do.

P.S - As a Returned Mormon Missionary myself (14 years ago, how time flies), trust me when I say your buddy will come back with a stack of life experiences and stories to share and very likely, an eagerness to sling dice with you.

[Evilserran]

Generic GM wrote:

A little over a year ago I kicked off my first campaign. I made a world, hundreds of NPCs, continents, lore, and much more. I started off with a group of 7. Then one of my members left this summer on his holy mission (he is a mormon so he will be gone for 2 years). He was one of my best players and a good friend. I was able to recruit two more players. In my group of 8 I have one player who attends every once in awhile (this pc is basically the green ranger of the group), and another one of my players has had shaky attendance lately due to work and his band commitments. Today I lost a pc because I had a couple in my group and they split up. So... I lost a player in their break up. I have also been informed that I may lose another pc this January seeing as he may be getting a job out of state. So, my question is should I just wrap my game up and call it a day? I love GMing a great deal, but it adds stress. My folks, my dad in particular, believe that D&D is basically evil. My dad thinks it is weird and thinks that my hobby has consumed my life. So I guess I am just wondering have any of y'all been in this situation before? Do any of you have words of wisdom for a ragged GM? Thank you for your time.

One thing. D20 PRO. Costs a little bit to get the license, but friends moving away will never be a problem again. My local group disintegrated 4 years ago. My current groups contains 3 people from texas, 1 from colorado, 1 from Brazil, and me in Rhode Island. D20 pro would let you createyour own maps and build your actual characters. It has a die system, and can actually use the pathfinder rules.

[Vicon]

It sounds like you need a BREAK. It's not a total loss, and I definitely think you can play with four just as well if not better than 8 -- if they are consistent.

Some of my BEST gaming of all time was with me GMing and two of my best friends playing, sometimes just one player, one GM even. It's really easy to give the spotlight to just two people.

I reckon you give it a break, and I have no doubt you'll want to return to it refreshed. In the meantime, instead of playing RPGs, endeavor to do some of the things you talk about so much in a campaign but never get around to doing. Ride a horse. Take an archery or metalworking class. Go to a couple of Renfaires. Just scratch the itch in a different way, and you'll be a better GM when you get back for those experiences.

As far as your dad goes, if he's a good dad he's just concerned that you can't live by bread alone -- you've gotta have some toast too. But gaming has been a lifelong enjoyment for me, even though I have historically gone years in between playing and I'm on the uptick again.

You just need to refresh. Don't sweat it.

Just ask yourself if you're having fun, and let that guide you. Don't neglect family, outside, or romance either! (though that doesn't sound like a big deal)

Sincerely,

V

[tsuruki]

For the gaming part:

Ive been DM for years, with varyingly successful groups.
Sometimes its just friends, other times is more of a mix.
I like when the group is not just a gathering of all your BFF´s, it makes it easy for tempers to flare and if anyone makes a very bad social move it might mean those two of your friends dont want to see each other again, which makes things tough for you when you plan sessions.

In my sessions the optimal size ranges from 3-6.

3 Is a very manageable and strong party, but boring if every player is not invested in the fight/story. It gets slightly annoying with a small party of this size that you must tone-down encounters a bit. You need to be carefull to taylor the campain to the group in such a scenario.
4 is the golden number, every game rule assumes this amount of players in the group. This number hits a good sweet spot allowing for teamwork and a good pool of HP that can share incoming dmage and take hits communally.
5 is the golden number +1. You can tune up fights a bit and/or the players can affor more specialisation and they can support a "lump" player better, reducing party chafe.
6 is the maximum recomended number for a normal game, at this point youre loosing peoples attention and interest between lengthy game turns. Face time, especially out of combat, becomes a recourse that you must fine tune and balance over sessions.
7+ Half roleplay, half party. Its not about the game anymore, everybody is gonna have some distraction ready while its not their turn and people show up for this kinda thing as much for the game as they do for meetign each other and have jolly fun.

The Real Life part:
Its hard to tell you what to do mon. IF your dad thinks D&D is the devil, perhaps you should take it to someone elses place when you play?
If thats impossible then make sure you get a helper or two to clean up after every session, dirty dishes make parents annoyed.

Do you spend 56 hours per week in front of your computer? Or more? (56 hours equates to your week schedule being: 8 hours of sleep. 8 Hours of School/Work. 8 Hours in front of the computer doing leisurely acrivities.)
Dont answer that here, just answer it in your mind, and dont lie to yourself. If the truthful answer is yes then you really need to lay off the pc. G

[Adamantine Dragon]

I try to keep an active group at least at five players. That way if one can't play, we have four, which is still a solid group. Six is OK too, but I'd rather not GM seven or more players. Combat just takes too long...

As far as family attitudes about gaming are concerned, yeah, I suspect a lot of us gamers had to deal with that. I don't know what to say except to say that if you live at home, that's a different issue than if you live on your own. I would be unwilling to deliberatly cause family friction by rubbing my father's nose in my doing something that he disapproves of. You can always game at a game store so that it's not in his house. I know a lot of people who have hobbies their parents don't approve of and most of them just do it in such a way that it doesn't create major problems by doing it outside the home.

Good luck.

[Mythic Evil Lincoln]

Yeah, I'd make any game work as long as I have at least two players and one GM.

Even one-on-one can work, but it doesn't work too well with my games of choice.

Frankly, I'm amazed when people can keep the game fun with more than 5 players... you seem to think that's too few, that speaks to your abilities as GM.

Try just focusing that much more attention on the players you've got.

[Rerednaw]

Generic GM wrote:

A little over a year ago I kicked off my first campaign...My folks, my dad in particular, believe that D&D is basically evil. My dad thinks it is weird and thinks that my hobby has consumed my life. So I guess I am just wondering have any of y'all been in this situation before? Do any of you have words of wisdom for a ragged GM? Thank you for your time.

Congratulations on creating and maintaining a dynamic setting.

And yes I've been in the same boat.

Gaming groups evolve and change, it's sad to see someone go but real life is real life. I suggest:

Taking a break.
Consider running the game/setting online (via virtual tabletop).
Joining another group (also a way of taking a break) as a player.

What I did is start a campaign with GM's only. The idea is to rotate so when one person needs a break from running, another steps up.

If you are interested in online virtual tabletop play, I'd recommend checking out the Pathfinder Society Online Collective. It's mainly Pathfinder but some folks with other interests have also posted.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/pathfinder-society-onlin e-collective

Also second the vote for obsidianportal. Though a caveat: in my experience I haven't found any new games to join there. Usually people are listing games that are already established and are not open.

[Generic GM]

Thank you all so much for your wisdom and advice. I appreciate it a whole lot. Thank you all.