Bard: spell advise please


Advice


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I'm making a 13th level Arcane Duelist Bard for a current game and have the follwing spells, have I missed anything good, or selected anything bad?

1st: cure light wounds, grease, feather step, silent image, vanish, windy escape

2nd: allegro, cacophonus call, mirror image, resist energy, pilfering hand

3rd: arcane concordance, confusion, exquisite accompaniment, dispell magic, good hope

4th: dimension door, greater invisibility, shout, virtuoso performance

5th: colak of dreams, shadowbard.

My CHA is 26 [+8]. I picked Shout to have 1 AoE spell.
I'll use 2 performances [virtuoso performance or shadowbard] to get inspire courage and bladethirst running [with aasimar favoured class boosts] to give everyone +4/+4 and me an additional +4 to my weapon [+1 keen courageous]. Then into combat while greater invisible with either a cloak of dreams/coup de grace combo or just damage.

Any comments welcome.


I should have mentioned haste. We have a cleric, an oracle and a summoner making up the rest of the group.


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i hear bladed dash and it's greater variant are quite helpful.


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Heroism is a great spell for a bard to take. Basically a long lasting buff that gives you +2 on almost anything you do. Bards get this as a second level spell which is one level earlier than any other class. As a third level spell it is decent, as a second level spell it is great.


Windy Escape is from the Advanced Race Guide, Sylph section. It is flat-out better than the average first level spell (or even the above-average first level spell) because it is assumed to be very rare, or of restricted availability. Unless your bard has ties to the Elemental Plane of Air, a lot of DMs will not allow you to take that spell.

Silver Crusade

Blistering invective is amusing as heck and also actually useful.

Glibness is positively broken. So broken that many GMs will nerf it.

You should also consider some masterpieces. Triple time is very cheap and effective. Pageant of the Peacock us so incredibly overpowered that any sane GM will nerf it :-)


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You need, NEED to have saving finale (Bard 1, APG) on your list. You need your Bardic Performance to be up for the spell to work, but it can be a game-changer. Swap it for CLW, pick up a wand if needed for the healing. You end your performance as an immediate action, granting an ally a re-roll on a failed saving throw. Saved our fighter twice with that one.

deafening song bolt (Bard 5, APG) is a top-notch damage spell for bards, if that is something you're looking for. No Save, no SR, decent damage to up to 3 creatures, ranged touch attack to hit.


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I like Alter Self for the size buff, and the access to things like scent and darkvision. Displacement and blur 'stack' and combining them with mirror image makes you almost unhittable.

Bard's Escape can also be really useful.


pauljathome wrote:

Blistering invective is amusing as heck and also actually useful.

Glibness is positively broken. So broken that many GMs will nerf it.

You should also consider some masterpieces. Triple time is very cheap and effective. Pageant of the Peacock us so incredibly overpowered that any sane GM will nerf it :-)

I'm playing a bard now, so I'd take glibness in a heartbeat if it fit the campaign I was in. It's not overpowered imo because there's a decent check against its bonus.

I wouldn't take a masterpiece, though, only on the grounds that it takes a spell or feat slot as well as skill slots, all of which are precious to the bard class.

That said, this is the first bard I've played, so maybe after the campaign or after my third or fourth bard I'll recant my statements :)

To the OP- is this a higher-level campaign or a one-shot adventure? That would influence the build. If you're only playing 1-3 sessions, heck grab all the bonuses you can!


I've got deafening song bolts lined up for level 14, I agree it's a good spell.

I looked at masterpieces but didn't want to lose any feats or spells? I agree some of them are good but the price is high to me.

I'll defo change clw for saving finale, good call there.

Windy escape - I'll check with my DM.

Agreed about heroism but I've taken good hope for the +4 damage (courageous weapon) to increase combat effectiveness. I don't want both. I'll probably get some scrolls as it lasts a long time and it would be a good back if we're surprized.

Were starting book 5 of shattered star.


I'm not a big fan of blur or displacement personally, especially when I'm going to be invisible every combat! As buffs displacement is good for the fighter, or in our case the eidolon.

Dark Archive

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The best 2nd level spell, bar none, is Heroism. Especially for an Arcane Duelist. It's just "all dungeon", no it doesn't stack with good hope, but you also don't generally do it "in combat". @ 13th level it lasts over 2 hour (or 4 hours with an extend wand).

I always suggest the 3rd level spell Sculpt sound for its double use. First, it's an all day (with extend spell) "the party makes NO SOUNDS while they move" super-stealth buff (Plate mail fighter? Now makes 0 sounds except when he talks). If that wasn't good enough, it's an area effect save for opponents to not sound like a duck every time they talk or want to cast spells (and with your high CHA, it's a DC 21 or all enemy spellcasters in an area effect are UNABLE TO CAST).

4th level you should have one of your spells swapped out for The Requium of the Fallen Prince-King. It lets you actually move and full attack in the same round, and only costs 1 round of your performance (and is also a pre-buff). It's huge for you, and you can recast it. Take perform oratory, you can then take the feat @ 11th that also lets you make all people hit by your inspire courage do +1d6 sonic damage per weapon swing.


stuart haffenden wrote:

I'm making a 13th level Arcane Duelist Bard for a current game and have the follwing spells, have I missed anything good, or selected anything bad?

1st: cure light wounds, grease, feather step, silent image, vanish, windy escape

2nd: allegro, cacophonus call, mirror image, resist energy, pilfering hand

3rd: arcane concordance, confusion, exquisite accompaniment, dispell magic, good hope

4th: dimension door, greater invisibility, shout, virtuoso performance

5th: colak of dreams, shadowbard.

My CHA is 26 [+8]. I picked Shout to have 1 AoE spell.
I'll use 2 performances [virtuoso performance or shadowbard] to get inspire courage and bladethirst running [with aasimar favoured class boosts] to give everyone +4/+4 and me an additional +4 to my weapon [+1 keen courageous]. Then into combat while greater invisible with either a cloak of dreams/coup de grace combo or just damage.

Any comments welcome.

As has been said, CLW is a waste. Get Saving Finale instead. Windy Escape isn't on PFSRD so I can't assess it.

Cacophonous Call is something to trade out. It's good when you first get it, but the save DC lags. Pilfering Hand is a maneuver spell and all maneuver spells are sad jokes. Allegro is also a waste since you have a summoner in the party. Instead you need Glitterdust, Silence, and possibly Heroism as Thalin suggests, though that assumes you won't be casting Good Hope as a standard combat buff.

Confusion has the save of a 3rd level spell, which is not good at 13th level. Exquisite accompaniment doesn't mesh with Saving Finale. Saving Finale is better. I think with your party I'd look through the masterpieces, but I think you're going to use most of your 3rd level slots on dispelling and good hope.

Virtuoso performance burns performance rounds too fast. If you combine it with exquisite accompaniment you're using too many rounds casting the spells. I'd look at Dance of 100 Cuts. It's going to do you as much good as Bladethirst and it won't hit the enhancement cap. I don't think couragous is worth it until you get a +4 weapon, which means it's only good when using Shadowbard or Virtuioso Performance. You'd be better off with a +2 keen and Dance of 100 cuts.

Fifth level looks okay, but I'm not sure Shadowbard is worth it. I'm quite sure it's not worth it with bladethirst. For your actions Dance of 100 cuts is still better and both is getting too costly in terms of actions. You might use it for Dirge of Doom if people are using offensive spells. Or just grab Deafening Song Bolts now.


I'll second Bard's Escape. Note that its primary use is rather "rearrange the battlefield". With a snap of your fingers you'll have every frontliner in flanking and full-attacking position and every caster and archer well out of range of enemies. It really is amazing.


I have 44 rounds of performance. With Arcane Concordance, which I extend via a Rod, I can easily pre-buff, as my 1 round/level buffs are going to run for 26 rounds. That's plenty of time to run through 2 fights if not 3.

Shadowbard grants me Bladethirst and therefore the courageous bonuses to hit and damage. This nets me +6 hit and damage and the ability to ignore all the normal DR a +5 weapon by-passes.

As far as save DC's go, Cacophanous Call is DC20, Confusion DC21. These spells are good vs frontline grunts that have poor Will saves, or even average ones. Those DC's are both raised by one if cast within 26 rounds of the Arcane Concordance which they probably will be, at least I hope!

I agree Virtuoso Performance isn't cheap to run but it's a fall back if I need to make one more fight if I run out of Shadowbard, which I'll be Echoing in the first place to get more mileage out of my lacking spells/day. I guess Exquisite Accompaniment might be one too many fall backs but it could help out if things get desparate.

Pilfering Hand has a CMB of 21. That's not amazing but it can disarm many things and I like the spell, it's something different.

As a side:
I also have Wandering Star Motes and Sunbeam as alternative options via my Aasimar spell-like ability to cast Daylight. Motes is good for crowds, Sunbeam is the Blinded condition tagged onto a reflex save and some minor damage.


Bard's Escape is a good spell and if I wasn't an Arcane Duelist I would have it but my job here is to get into melee and hurt stuff while buffing everyone else. I don't have the room/desire for it right now. I'll prbably pick it up after after singing bolts!

Dark Archive

I really like Comprehend Languages. You would be surprised at how useful it can be.

Heroism is the best spell on the Bard list. Good Hope is for buffing the party. Heroism is for buffing yourself.

Grand Lodge

I love memory lapse from the APG because it gives you a second chance
on bad 1st impression.
If you do not have dark vision I recommend having at least a potion dark vision of it for pesky demons. Obscuring mist spell also makes a partial counter Summon monster can be a life saver
they have celestial and infernal they see in the dark, They can be used to set off traps in dungeon of death, And even if they cant do much If the bad guy attacks them instead of your party that is a win.

The see invisible spell with Glider dust is great. Glitter dust I like because it has no spell resistance.
Blindness is a serious debuff spell.


Victor Zajic wrote:

I really like Comprehend Languages. You would be surprised at how useful it can be.

Heroism is the best spell on the Bard list. Good Hope is for buffing the party. Heroism is for buffing yourself.

I took an alternative racial trait of aasimar that grant 2 languages per point spent in linguistics and I have 12 known languages.

With arcane concordance my good hope lasts 26 minutes. I have some scrolls of heroism though!


paul Riggs wrote:

I love memory lapse from the APG because it gives you a second chance

on bad 1st impression.
If you do not have dark vision I recommend having at least a potion dark vision of it for pesky demons. Obscuring mist spell also makes a partial counter Summon monster can be a life saver
they have celestial and infernal they see in the dark, They can be used to set off traps in dungeon of death, And even if they cant do much If the bad guy attacks them instead of your party that is a win.

The see invisible spell with Glider dust is great. Glitter dust I like because it has no spell resistance.
Blindness is a serious debuff spell.

Aasimar have dark vision. We have a summoner in the party (see above posts! ).

Glitterdust is amazingly useful sometimes but I carry scrolls of see invisibilty and I've kinda done Glitterdust to death with sorcerers in the past and wanted to try out something different.

My diplomacy is 20+ but I see where you're coming from with that!

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