Jason Bulmahn was raised a Packers fan.
This.
Bears get shafted really badly. It's all about Cats and Dinosaurs.
Mergy, Large >> Medium in just about every way.
If you have problems with continually being wedged in (very unlikely) just take the Feat to avoid it.
The ape also has reach.
When the ape and the bear are on such an even footing, why would anyone ever choose an ape?
Reach?
They still giving apes weapons? Can't remember where that last stood.
They still giving apes weapons? Can't remember where that last stood.
The advantage bears have on apes is that they can take people down with their bear hands!
And to my knowledge the current ruling is that an animal is always a drooling moron and never gets to learn actually learn a language or use weapons, even if they have hands for it. At least for PFS anyway, otherwise I think its houserule territory.
Yeah but Apes can get up to Monkey business.
Yeah but Apes can get up to Monkey business.
Do you really want your animal companion to be monkeying around though?
The PFS FAQ doesn't allow apes to wield weapons.
But the Paizo Blog leaves it open as a possibility.
I agree it is odd. The default bear in the Bestiary seems to be a Grizzly, which is large. Black bears can only be created by template. But the AC seems to be patterned after the Black bear.
On the other hand, the default wolf in the Bestiary is medium. But AC wolves grow to large, effectively becoming Dire wolves.
Certainly a bit strange, even if there is nothing "wrong" with either companion. I don't think it is something that needs to be "fixed," but a Large bear would certainly be cool for an option (kinda like there are 2 cat companions).
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A level 4 ape is large with three 1d6 primary natural attacks, 21 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 2 int, 12 wis, 7 cha, and 3 natural armor.
A level 4 bear is medium with one 1d6 and two 1d4 primary natural attacks, 19 str, 13 dex, 15 con, 2 int, 12 wis, 6 cha, and 2 natural armor.
I see that they both have the same bonus to attack, and the ape does +1 damage with its bite and +2 damage with its claws. The ape has +1 to its AC due to natural armour, and the bear has a slightly higher potential constitution.
However, the bear doesn't need to squeeze or move at half speed in a five foot corridor. When the ape and the bear are on such an even footing, why would anyone ever choose an ape?
Nerf bears, buff apes.
Except there are rules in place already that allow you to take different bonuses when your animal companion is set to go up a size category if you'd prefer to keep it smaller so by RAW you can have a medium ape. And it would still be superior in every respect to the bear. Sorry dude, you're just wrong here.
If they wanted to do a fix for more than just bears they could give druids the option at lvl 7 to apply the large template to any medium AC the way beast rider cavaliers can. That would solve the stat discrepency and give those of us who want large bears a good option in one fell swoop.
The problem I find is when people go out and compare in pf they always comparr it to number 1. Pf has about 3 super acs then a lot middle of the road. The bear AC represents a blacl bear its fine move on. As to why they have never released a. Bigger ear ac? I haven't a clue but at the end of the day animal companions are a secondary class feTure so it doesn't matter a lot if a grizzly ac isn't an option.The ape is only the number one companion if your alphabetizing them. If you're sorting by any measure of power it's well down the list.
But it still matches or exceeds the bear in every respect unless you're pumping con. And if you're pumping con before strength you're being silly. Animal companions are replaceable.
Most of that is because you are comparing a medium animal to a large one. Other than reach the advantages are minor. Additionslly if circuses are believed its easy to get a bear on a unicycle.
One early FRPG had every one handed melee weapon identical. You could skin it as whatever you wanted. It could be a club, battle-axe, weird asian martial arts weapon, anything.All identical. Wasn't popular.
Is this a joke? Early D&D did this and it was obviously quite popular--all weapons did 1d6 damage.
Of course, it ran into a problem wherein having a smaller weapon (like a dagger) let you attack twice as fast (with the same, 1d6 damage) while larger weapons conferred zero bonuses, so you'd basically just have adventurers all just carrying daggers and eschewing other weapons (well, except bows, because duh).
Would you really like "Large Carnivorous mammal" "Medium Carnivorous mammal" etc with identical stats?
Yes, actually, I would really like that. The game remains balanced and fair, while the flavor is up to me. Then, I could make a pouncing bear, or a tripping bear, or a grabbing bear, etc.
I see zero downside to this approach except that it discourages uncreative people from playing, which, well, I may be a jerk for saying it, but I don't think that's a bad thing either.
One early FRPG had every one handed melee weapon identical. You could skin it as whatever you wanted. It could be a club, battle-axe, weird asian martial arts weapon, anything.All identical. Wasn't popular.Is this a joke? Early D&D did this and it was obviously quite popular--all weapons did 1d6 damage.
Of course, it ran into a problem wherein having a smaller weapon (like a dagger) let you attack twice as fast (with the same, 1d6 damage) while larger weapons conferred zero bonuses, so you'd basically just have adventurers all just carrying daggers and eschewing other weapons (well, except bows, because duh).
Real men use darts to kill people!
I agree Feral.
At the moment we have very few real choices.
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Any species of bear? You might want to look at the sun bear. On the low end, adults can be 4' long and 60 lbs. That sounds like small sized to me. Largest wolf caught was an gray wolf weighing 180 lbs in Idaho. So a wolf can have 120 lbs on a bear in real life.
At 7, the wolf and big cat also go large while the bear stays medium, taking the absurdity a step further. I dare any of Paizo's developers to go to a zoo or wildlife preserve anywhere in the world and find a wolf that is larger than a bear. Any species of bear. Actually, I'll save you the time. It still doesn't exist.
And at 180 lbs, that wolf is still just a medium animal.
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The system currently forces players to choose between thematics and efficiency. I'll admit concessions along these lines will always be an issue, it's especially glaring when it comes to animal companions. A bear shaman should have a big powerful companion. For such an iconic animal, bears are currently very lacking.
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I guess the solution here is to either just not play a bear shaman / druid with a bear companion or commit a technical rules violation and re-skin a different animal.
Seeing as my bear shaman is already level 5 and I don't want to start him over I'm going to go with the latter. It just sucks I'll have to clear it with every dm I play with before I sit down at the table during PFS play. Thanks to Paizo for creating a totally unnecessary and stupid real life hassle.
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If you aren't playing PFS, and your GM is amenable, just use the stats for a Big Cat, and never ever use Pounce or Rake, and describe your 'Big Cat' as being a Jandavian Striped Bear.
If anyone points out that your 'Jandavian Striped Bear' looks exactly like a tiger, just scowl at them and remind them that you are the Druid, and know more about animals than they ever will.
Without using pounce or rake, you'll still have an animal companion that ends up less effective than if you'd just taken a tiger companion, and get to have a 'large bear.'
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If your playing PFS your allowed to use a large cat and name him bear. He's still a big cat and you'll confuse everyone at the table, but it is an option.
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Real men use darts to kill people!
They were THE badass weapon of their day in 2E. (seriously.. a dart specialist did more damage than a bastard sword specialist)
Beware the CN fighter walking through the dungeon with his own chair and knitting needles...
If your playing PFS your allowed to use a large cat and name him bear. He's still a big cat and you'll confuse everyone at the table, but it is an option.
Actually, you can't.
"Thus, a small cat could be a cheetah or leopard, as suggested, as well as a lynx, bobcat, puma, or other similar animal; it could not, however, be "re-skinned" to be a giant hairless swamp rat or a differently-statted wolf. "
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If your playing PFS your allowed to use a large cat and name him bear. He's still a big cat and you'll confuse everyone at the table, but it is an option.Actually, you can't.
"Thus, a small cat could be a cheetah or leopard, as suggested, as well as a lynx, bobcat, puma, or other similar animal; it could not, however, be "re-skinned" to be a giant hairless swamp rat or a differently-statted wolf. "
I know, he's a big cat named bear. Didn't reskin a thing. If you have a problem you can take it up with Bear. Bear says "Rawr rawr rawr!".
I think Mr Sin was suggesting you take a Cat and Name him 'Bear', as opposed to 'Mr Timmins' or some other name. It will confuse the kids for fun and giggles.
I find this amusing, really. The bear was the default animal companion in 3.5 because it was so much stronger and tougher then the other animals. Even pounce only made it a toss-up.
I imagine that's probably part of why the Pathfinder bear got hit so hard with the nerf bat. Though it does also bear mentioning that the Paizo Devs have their preferences, and those are reflected in how the game rules changed.
I know, he's a big cat named bear. Didn't reskin a thing. If you have a problem you can take it up with Bear. Bear says "Rawr rawr rawr!".
Sorry, totally didn't catch that. Um.....don't mind me. Move along. Nothing to see here.
(sorry)
I know, he's a big cat named bear. Didn't reskin a thing. If you have a problem you can take it up with Bear. Bear says "Rawr rawr rawr!".Sorry, totally didn't catch that. Um.....don't mind me. Move along. Nothing to see here.
(sorry)
We all do it. Like I said though, you'll confuse everyone at the table when the bear starts pounce charging and grappling.
Actually that could be quite comic.
Whats your AC?
Oh its Bear.
/Places down mini of a Lion.
So its a cat?
No, hes Bear.
Oh right.
BEAR POUNCES!
So it is a cat!
No, he is Bear.
Or the Druid who failed his Know:Animal and thinks his Lion is a bear, like the chinese zoo that put a mane on a dog and sold it as a lion to the public.
I'm pretty sure the animal companion bear is a black bear, starting off as a freshly independent juvenile, and eventually maturing to a good size adult. Whereas the wolf, because Princess Mononoke. And I have no problem with that. The only "problem" I see is there is no official Big Bear animal companion, which could be easily remedied by any Bestiary or any player-oriented book between now and forever.
It does look like the bear, as written, plays out after level 6. It probably doesn't get grab because it evolves at 4th level. From 4th to 6th level it looks like a very strong choice. For higher level druids, it is still playable, but no longer optimal; the big cat equals or outperforms it in essentially every way. Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
Actually that could be quite comic.
Whats your AC?
Oh its Bear.
/Places down mini of a Lion.
So its a cat?
No, hes Bear.
Oh right.BEAR POUNCES!
So it is a cat!
No, he is Bear.Or the Druid who failed his Know:Animal and thinks his Lion is a bear, like the chinese zoo that put a mane on a dog and sold it as a lion to the public.
Haha! Yes! I love those situations.
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Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.
Well best bear with it, and if they ever reveal the conspiracy I would say that's a Kodiak moment.Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
Paizo's opinion of bear companions is there in black and white, so stop pandaring to the crowd.
Paizo's opinion of bear companions is there in black and white, so stop pandaring to the crowd.Well best bear with it, and if they ever reveal the conspiracy I would say that's a Kodiak moment.Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
This has just become unbearable...
I guess the solution here is to either just not play a bear shaman / druid with a bear companion or commit a technical rules violation and re-skin a different animal.
Or just, you know, lean how to have fun roleplaying a build that isn't optimized
Seeing as my bear shaman is already level 5 and I don't want to start him over I'm going to go with the latter. It just sucks I'll have to clear it with every dm I play with before I sit down at the table during PFS play. Thanks to Paizo for creating a totally unnecessary and stupid real life hassle.
"Real life hassle" seems like a bit of a stretch when you're talking about one particular class option in an rpg that has what - almost twenty full classes? Inconvenient for PFS, sure, but really easy to fix in home games.
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Paizo's opinion of bear companions is there in black and white, so stop pandaring to the crowd.Well best bear with it, and if they ever reveal the conspiracy I would say that's a Kodiak moment.Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
This is getting ursinine.
This is getting ursinine.Paizo's opinion of bear companions is there in black and white, so stop pandaring to the crowd.Well best bear with it, and if they ever reveal the conspiracy I would say that's a Kodiak moment.Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
Someone should put a stop to this before they get a Boo Boo. Maybe we can ask a wise old Yogi for guidance?
I guess the solution here is to either just not play a bear shaman / druid with a bear companion or commit a technical rules violation and re-skin a different animal.Or just, you know, lean how to have fun roleplaying a build that isn't optimized.
I don't think the roleplaying part is the problem. You literally can't ride a bear unless your a gnome or Halfling for instance. Mechanics can have an impact on your story and fun, shockingly.
Would it be acceptable to use elephant stats and change the natural attacks and possibly armor? The grab ability could probably be handled via a feat.
Someone should put a stop to this before they get a Boo Boo. Maybe we can ask a wise old Yogi for guidance?This is getting ursinine.Paizo's opinion of bear companions is there in black and white, so stop pandaring to the crowd.Well best bear with it, and if they ever reveal the conspiracy I would say that's a Kodiak moment.Because we bearly get respect in this grizzly conspiracy in polar contrast to our feline companions.Why doesn't the bear get an additional +2 AC at 4th level? I honestly don't know.
Just look for the Bare Necessities. Forget about your worries and your strife!