
Nicos |
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Feat taxes exist in PF and that have been argued to death multiple times, so, sorry for another of those threads.
I was reading some threads here and there and some people said that feat taxes are good for the game cause that way fighters and ranger can feel special.
At first I was full of disbelief, surely they were joking but no they were serious.
The idea for example is that if a feat chain is long enough then only fighters and rangers can take them make then "special" (regardless of how many bad or unwanted feats are in the chain).
THat sounds silly to me, I do not see the fun in "lets give them several bonus feats only to make then spend them in d bad feats".

Gwen Smith |

Long feat chains isn't bad idea in and of itself. It only becomes a problem when the feats in the chain are not inherently useful or have little to do with the rest of the chain.
It's also not just a problem with combat feats. A healing-based cleric has to take Improved Channel (increase DC against undead) before Quick Channel. Those two uses of channel don't have anything to do with each other.

notabot |

Long feat chains isn't bad idea in and of itself. It only becomes a problem when the feats in the chain are not inherently useful or have little to do with the rest of the chain.
It's also not just a problem with combat feats. A healing-based cleric has to take Improved Channel (increase DC against undead) before Quick Channel. Those two uses of channel don't have anything to do with each other.
What? I just checked the PFSRD and there is no improved channel pre req before quick channel. Just knowledge religion and channel class feature.

Greylurker |

I understand the logic behind it. Feats represent training and study, that basic skills are needed to build up to complex ones. It does make sense that way.
However there are spots where it's clearly over done just for the sake of stalling character progression. I particularly dislike the "improved" to "greater" versions of feats, or feats that do nothing more than increase the bonus already gained from a previous feat. I feel a lot of those should be rolled in together with the "greater" portion becoming active when the character meets other conditions. Sort of Freely "Unlock" the greater benefits because you've achieved a higher level of training.
Like the Skill booster feats. "Once you have 10 or more ranks this bonus increases to +4).
Why not have "Once you have 3 or more Unarmed Combat Feats Improved Grapple becomes Greater Grapple" or similar things

Lord_Malkov |

I don't have a problem with most feat chains.
Point blank shot and up is fine with me
Improved - greater - quick
Most maneuver feats add functionality when you get the greater verison. An aoo with trip multiple grapples in a round with grapple, aoos for everyone with overrun.
The things I dislike are the most common feat taxes and some of the silly stat requirements. Combat expertise is the first that jumps to mind. With all the feature and feat support, just fighting defensively becomes a much better option. Expertise is a bad feat, and it has a 13 int requirement.. and it is bootstrapped to a bunch of maneuvers.
Similarly, why does someone need imp unarmed strike to get imp grapple? What if they use natural weapons? What if they use a grapple weapon? And why do they need dex 13?
I don't mind feats like point blank shot because even though some may see them as weak, they are at least going to get used. There is a very good chance that IUS and expertise won't, and that is where the design is flawed.