Help Me Out with a Cleric


Advice


So the first session of the new campaign no one else was willing to take the obligatory cleric, so it fell to me. [The player who had originally planned to take the cleric had to drop out of the campaign due to changes at work.]

8th level; 20 point buy; 33,000 gp worth of equipment. I raced make a character so the group could begin play and I ended up with an effective healer: Healing and Protection Domains, Extra Channel, Selective Channel, and a Phylactery of Positive Channeling to do +2d6 on channel bursts.

Unfortunately, with the exception of decent HP and AC, this guy is a dud in combat effectiveness. He's a cure wand on legs, and compared to the character (that I now cannot play)I had obsessively designed for weeks before the game, he's a boring, one trick pony ("heal my comrades").

We are facing monsters that he cannot hope to hit with his paltry +9 attack bonus, dealing a pathetic 1d8+3 damage against creatures with DR two times higher than his average damage. In the only fight of the session, I stood behind the barbarian and healed him every round while he chopped away on a demon.

I am a much more active player than that. I want to think strategically, do creative things, and accomplish something in the encounter. Being able to do only one type of thing will become incredibly boring in very short order.

So what is your advice? How do you keep clerics from becoming boring heal-bots?


I have 3 things to propose:

- Be a Life Oracle. They have the Life Link revelation that allows you to transfer damage from your allies to yourself. This way you do not have to follow them around, you just need to heal yourself.

- Oradin It is basically a build like Life Oracle 3 / Paladin X or Life Oracle 3 / Paladin 4 / Holy Vindicator X. This concept is an "evolution" of the Life Oracle concept of healing. You can transfer the damage of your allies in yourself, so you do not have to waste time healing them separately. How can you increase even more your action economy? Swift action heal yourself with the Paladin's Lay on Hands. Now you have a move action and a standard action casting, moving or attacking.

- Be an Evangelist Cleric. Do not prepare healing spells. Just carry a wand of cure light wounds. This way no one can force you to heal in battle, other than channeling, which is diminished anyway, but you are even more useful to your party with your bardic performance and the spontaneously cast enchantment spells of yours. You can still tie up their wounds with your wand after the battle is over.

Unfortunately I cannot say something about you already made character. You have already invest in healing. Speak instead with your GM about changing your character with one you actually enjoy playing.


First, I suggest giving this a read:

Tark's Big Holy Book of Clerical Optimization

Second, look at your spell choice. Channeling positive energy means you can drop any prepared spell to spontaneously cast Cure spells, so you never need to prepare any of them. That leaves you free to focus on preparing long-term buffs so that you can buff yourself well before combat. This will allow you to improve to-hit and damage so you're doing more. You could also prepare some control spells and step into that as a secondary role. Your further feat selection should include some combat feats.

Above all, remember that a cleric doesn't have to be the healer. A wand of CLW is just as effective, and allows you to focus on being a combat beast. If your cleric is Neutral (and/or follows a neutral deity), look into Versatile Channeling to channel negative energy and then pick up Channel Smite. Everyone treats the cleric like a heal bot, but with the right feats, he can be almost as effective as a fighter.


Healing in combat is a big waste of time, and usually resources. Teach your party proper tactical play, force them to carry potions, and make sure their AC/saves are at a reasonable level. That will give you a little more wiggle room on the battlefield to do fun things.


Harles wrote:

So the first session of the new campaign no one else was willing to take the obligatory cleric, so it fell to me. [The player who had originally planned to take the cleric had to drop out of the campaign due to changes at work.]

I absolutely despise the idea of an obligatory healer. You shouldnt HAVE to be anything. I'd have left them to their own devices and played something I want.

Quote:

8th level; 20 point buy; 33,000 gp worth of equipment. I raced make a character so the group could begin play and I ended up with an effective healer: Healing and Protection Domains, Extra Channel, Selective Channel, and a Phylactery of Positive Channeling to do +2d6 on channel bursts.

I think you put way too much of your resources into healing. There are WAAAY better choices for a cleric then that. You dont have to specialize in order to be able to heal as a cleric, just be good and have selective chanenl and your covered.

Quote:

Unfortunately, with the exception of decent HP and AC, this guy is a dud in combat effectiveness. He's a cure wand on legs, and compared to the character (that I now cannot play)I had obsessively designed for weeks before the game, he's a boring, one trick pony ("heal my comrades").

We are facing monsters that he cannot hope to hit with his paltry +9 attack bonus, dealing a pathetic 1d8+3 damage against creatures with DR two times higher than his average damage. In the only fight of the session, I stood behind the barbarian and healed him every round while he chopped away on a demon.

I am a much more active player than that. I want to think strategically, do creative things, and accomplish something in the encounter. Being able to do only one type of thing will become incredibly boring in very short order.

So what is your advice? How do you keep clerics from becoming boring heal-bots?

Good physical stats (unless you are an offensive caster your cleric doesnt actually need a super high wisdom) the Growth subdomain, buff spells and deities that love smashing things.


Are you allowed to use 3pp stuff?
If so I have a nice combo for you.
Start with being an orcish flame oracle with the firegod as your deity.
For your first level feat take fire god's blessing, for your third level feat take mystical healer (a 3pp feat). For your fifth level feat take glorious heat. With that you are more or less set. If you want more healing add in a single level of necromancer (life specialization).

Now how does does it work?
Any time you deal fire damage to an enemy (once per turn) you heal yourself for 1hp + mystical healer. Every time you cast a divine fire spell you heal an ally within 30ft for spell level + mystical healer. Now if you dipped wizard every time you cast a spell you can heal one target for spell level in hp + mystical healer.

You will not do big heals. But you can play a blaster and while blasting your enemies you heal yourself and your party.

Because you always heal yourself you should learn shield other as soon as you can.

mystical healer:

Your skills at magical healing are without peer.

Benefit: You add additional dice to any form of healing you generate yourself (extraordinary abilities, spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities).

Caster Level Additional Healing Dice
1st-3rd +1d4
4th-6th +1d6
7th-9th +2d6
10th-12th +3d6
13th +4d6

Special: If you do not possess a caster level, use half your character level, rounded down to determine additional healing dice for supernatural or extraordinary abilities.

When channeling energy to harm an opponent, do not add additional dice. These apply only when healing.

Example: You are 5th level (4 flame oracle 1 life necromancer but with magical knack) and cast a burning hands at a group of enemies. Having a CL of 5 you deal 5d4 of damage to your enemies. As you deal fire damage to an opponent you heal yourself for 1+1d6 damage. As you cast a divine fire spell you heal an ally for 1+1d6 damage and because you are a life wizard you could heal any creature in the area of effect for 1+1d6. But as (hopefully) there are no friends in the area of your burning hands you choose not to. And the ally you healed via glorious heat gains a moral bonus to attack until the end of his next turn.
If you have the burning magic revelation one or more of your targets might burn for 1d4 rounds. Every round in which you deal fire damage you heal yourself for 1+1d6 damage.

Next turn you realize that one friend is in dire need of healing so you decide to cast CLW (being an oracle you know all cure spells). You cure him for 1d8+1d6+5 and, because he is a target of one of your spells you can cure him for another 1+1d6 damage.


Healing in combat is not always a waste of time. If you really build for it (of which it sounds like you at least have the start) it can be very effective.

HOWEVER: If you don't like being a healbot, don't do it!

The PF system is not 2nd Ed D&D. A cleric is NOT obligatory.

Having a couple of characters that can use wands and a group that is willing to devote some portion of their cash to CLW and lesser restoration wands as well as potions/scrolls of restoration, neutralize poison, remove disease, remove blindness, raise dead, etc... is more than sufficient in 90% of the campaigns. (Carrion crown is one of the few that I would say almost requires a paladin or cleric if the group isn't very good at what they do.)

You obviously don't want to run a healbot cleric. Please talk to the GM to see if he/she will let you rebuild into something you want.

If he will not, there are still things you can do to make the PC fun without just healing all the time. Give us the details on your ability scores, feats, traits, and skills you have so far.

"God helps those who help themselves! Stop being such a dumb ash and getting beat up all the time. Use some tactics and fight intelligently for once."
Normally only heal someone if they go into the negatives. Even then, just heal them enough to bring the conscious so they can withdraw and drink their own healing potion. (However, I would suggest telling them that this is how you are going to play ahead of time. Don't spring it on them in the middle of a death match BBEG combat.)

If your wisdom isn't very high, use buffs to make heals less necessary. Blessings of Fervor gives everyone a choice of buffs. Summon monsters to do the fighting for you (and be party meat shields that don't need healed).

If your wisdom is decent you have lots of fun spell options. I absolutely love spells like Chain of Perdition (repeatedly tripping and entangling the BBEG from a distance) and Pilfering Hand (take the bow away from super archer and see how dangerous he is).

Some other good ones are Chaos Hammer, Ear Piercing Shriek, Flesh Worm Infestation, Spear of Purity, Debilitating Portent, Spiritual Ally, etc...

Plus there are a lot of utility spells that can be very helpful. Not as many as the wizards get, it's true. But still very useful none the less.


I think I made a mistake. Not sure a wiz1 oracle4 can learn glorious heat.
On my mobile right now.

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its difficult to give specific advice on an already built character without actually seeing the character... the stats you chose will make a big difference in your options, as will equipment. if you focused on Wis then Cha (which i'm guessing you did), then look at some of the interesting Save or Suck spells you could use (like Hold Person/Monster)- no single spell will heal as much damage as you'll prevent by just paralyzing a heavy hitter; combine that with skills like diplomacy and sense motive that give you out-of-combat fun things to do and you should have a bit more fun. if you have a decent Dex pick up a longspear and get combat reflexes (either at 9th or by retraining, if GM allows that); in the first round of combat (when nobody really needs healing yet) throw a buff on yourself and then you can at least make AoOs while healing.

if the GM will let you switch things around (as GMs often will when you are generous enough to throw something together too quickly for the benefit of the party) or use the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign, that opens up a world more options... honestly too many to really flesh out here, but here's a couple rough ideas that i (or someone else here) could elaborate on if your GM gives the OK:
- a summoning cleric: take the evangelist archetype (for group buffs); take sacred summons and augment summoning (and other feats like that); summon hordes of allies in combat (all get augmented, get perform buff, and channel heals them plus PCs).
- a better reach cleric: adjust stats, take combat reflexes, pick a god with a martial reach weapon, take healing domain plus something with more offensive use (fire for blast spells, strength[ferocity] for bonus damage, etc).
- melee 'cleric': be N, worship N god; channel negative energy- take channel smite; take destruction and strength[ferocity] domains for bonus damage; adjust stats; memorize cure spells, carry wand(s), try to squeeze in Versatile Channel. Alternatively, rebuild as an Oracle- Flame for blasting or Metal for melee; pick cures for auto-known and grab a wand or two to allow for more casting of the spells you want to use.
- mystic theurge: complete rebuild- make either of these: archon or garuda blooded aasimar, cleric 2 (with trickery for one domain)/wildblooded sorcerer [empyreal] 1/mystic theurge 5; or, an angel/azata/peri-blooded aasimar, oracle [wood] 2 (with Bend the Grain)/sorcerer [any] 1/mystic theurge 5. both will get all their spells on one casting stat (which they get a racial bonus to), and both will have plenty of heal spells with a good amount of other offensive/control spells.


8th level? Hmm, you should have access to 4th level spells. Consider taking a few blasting or save or suck spells to round you out in combat. Even with a +6-8 to hit with a touch attack, you would normally be able to hit.

I guess the big question here is what does your campaign have for most encounters? If it's undead or outsiders, then you should be good with a possible change in feat.

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