Vestigial arms number of attacks


Rules Questions

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The Exchange

lantzkev wrote:
who knew that language saying "you get no extra attacks" meant just that...

I'm not sure why you vent your angst at me. When people ask a question frequently, it should become a FAQ. Harassing people, just because you don't agree with them just makes you look like an anonymous bully.

Beaststrike Club wrote:
This +1 club is often decorated with large teeth and carved with stylized images of different animals. As a standard action, the wielder may transform the club into the head or limb of an animal; the weapon's damage does not change but the type of damage changes to suit the shape of the club: bite (piercing), claw (slashing), gore (piercing), slam (bludgeoning), sting (piercing), or talon (slashing). When transformed, the club counts as a natural weapon and a manufactured weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured or natural weapons. The club also counts as the natural weapon of its current shape for the purpose of feats and spells that rely on specific natural weapons, such as Weapon Focus (bite) or the bloody claws spell. If the wielder has the wild shape ability, she can expend one use of wild shape to increase the weapon's damage by one step for the duration of that wild shape as long as the druid remains in contact with the weapon; if the wielder can wild shape at will, the club's damage is always increased in this fashion. If unattended, the club reverts to its normal shape.

The club is transformed into the limb. If we follow your idea that you do not gain the limb, how do you believe you make a bite attack?

Does your hand becomes a mouth, all Vampire Hunter D like?


The weapon does not interact with the player's "limb" or "hand" economy in an unusual way. It just turns into an animal arm. It counts as a natural or manufactured weapon if one is more advantageous to you. You still wield it in the normal way.


No one was snarky.

The club is transformed into the head or a limb of an animal . Ie, it turns into thisto use weapon focus tail/bludgeoning or This to get have it use weapon focus bite. You use it like you do any other club, by holding it in your hand and swinging it.

The Exchange

So then follow through with that thought... you get to take that natural attack, in full sequence with all the other natural attacks you have.


You're holding a thing that takes the form of an animal head that bites your opponent. That's how you make a bite attack. It's not like another limb sprouts out of your body. Maybe you can conceptualize it as your arm turning into the lion's arm and paw for that attack or that you're holding onto a stick, the end of which turns into a goat head or whatever. But you don't get an extra thing to make an attack with in addition to whatever else you're doing. It's a trade - your hand can make a weapon attack or a natural weapon attack, just like normal.

In order for you to grow an extra limb, the Club would have to say that you grow an extra limb. It doesn't. It says the club transforms into the head or limb of an animal. Additionally, the entry says that if unattended the club reverts to its normal shape. Not you, the wielder.

It's a 7,300 gp magical weapon. Do you think that's worth granting a completely separate attack? Why would you ever not use this weapon as a natural weapon if it literally meant you could not make an attack with any other manufactured weapon in that same hand as well as making the natural weapon attack?

By comparison, the Cloak of the Manta Ray costs 7,200 and would give a natural attack. But it uses up the shoulder slot and only function in salt water. The Tentacle Cloak grants two secondary natural attacks, but is usable only once per day and costs 14,000. The Wyvern Cloak gives a natural attack, with some other abilities, and costs 78,000.


Dash Lestowe wrote:
So then follow through with that thought... you get to take that natural attack, in full sequence with all the other natural attacks you have.

When transformed, the club counts as a natural weapon and a manufactured weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured or natural weapons

I don't think that your other natural attacks are spells or effects that enhance your natural weapons.


Dash Lestowe wrote:
So then follow through with that thought... you get to take that natural attack, in full sequence with all the other natural attacks you have.

Right? This isn't any different than if you had used it as a club, except that now your natural attacks don't all become secondary attacks. That seems more in line with a 7,800 gp magic weapon. It's useful to creatures that have natural attacks already. Otherwise it's just a club.

I still don't see how the Vestigial Arm FAQ is relevant here.

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
I don't think that your other natural attacks are spells or effects that enhance your natural weapons.

They don't need to be. The rules for natural attacks are that you take all of them that you have weapons for. Your full-attack natural weapon sequence, is now whatever it was, plus one.

Shamrok wrote:
It's a 7,300 gp magical weapon. Do you think that's worth granting a completely separate attack? Why would you ever not use this weapon as a natural weapon if it literally meant you could not make an attack with any other manufactured weapon in that same hand as well as making the natural weapon attack?

I'm sorry, but you are not understanding what I've said. If you believe I said you can attack twice (natural and manufactured), please re-read my post.

Full-attack natural weapon sequence, makes no mention of manufactured weapons.


Dash Lestowe wrote:
They don't need to be. The rules for natural attacks are that you take all of them that you have weapons for. Your full-attack natural weapon sequence, is now whatever it was, plus one.

The club is not a natural weapon. It IS a manucatured weapon. Its treated as a natural weapon for a limited number of things (magic fang strongjaw etc).

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
The club is not a natural weapon. It IS a manucatured weapon. Its treated as a natural weapon for a limited number of things (magic fang strongjaw etc).

Fair enough, I see your point. I have nothing else to add.

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