Oracle's Awesome Display exceeding HD limits


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

I'm a little confused on whether or not Awesome Display allows an Oracle to exceed the HD limits imposed by spells such as Hypnotic Pattern.

As an example, let's say that the BBEG (Oracle 7 Cha 18) hits the party consisting of 6 5th level adventurers with a hypnotic pattern, and being a naughty party in "fireball formation" they are all in the AOE of hypnotic pattern. For the example we'll assume that the entire party failed their will save and the oracle rolled a 5 on their 2d4, for a grand total of 12 HD worth of fascinated creatures.

The two ways I can see this going are:
1. Awesome display has no effect on spells that do not have a HD based tier of effects (like Color Spray)
or
2. Awesome display reduces the amount of HD required to affect a creature. So that in our example each member of the party would only count as 1 HD (5 HD from levels - 4 HD from BBEG's CHA mod).

Awesome Display:
Awesome Display (Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).

Hypnotic Pattern:
A twisting pattern of subtle, shifting colors weaves through the air, fascinating creatures within it. Roll 2d4 and add your caster level (maximum 10) to determine the total number of HD of creatures affected. Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first; and, among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the spell's point of origin are affected first. HD that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted. Affected creatures become fascinated by the pattern of colors. Sightless creatures are not affected.

A wizard or sorcerer need not utter a sound to cast this spell, but a bard must perform as a verbal component.

Color Spray:
A vivid cone of clashing colors springs forth from your hand, causing creatures to become stunned, perhaps also blinded, and possibly knocking them unconscious. Each creature within the cone is affected according to its HD.

2 HD or less: The creature is unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious.)

3 or 4 HD: The creature is blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, then stunned for 1 round.

5 or more HD: The creature is stunned for 1 round.

Thanks in advance for your input.


Awesome Display lowers the HD of targets affected by the spells. Looking at the wording of those two spells the word affected seems to apply to those who have failed their save and will suffer some sort of effect from the spell.

Here is how I think it would work.

BBEG casts an Illusionary pattern spell and rolls a total of 5.
The HD the pattern can affect is 12 and it hits the first player.
Since he is not affected yet it would use up 5 HD when he fails his save and he is now affected by it and would suffer any further effects at -4 HD.

I don't think the pattern regains HD retroactively when the HD are lowered before counting towards the next one.
While either interpretation could work it would be safer to assume that Awesome display only lowers the HD for targets after the save fail and that spells count HD at the point of impact


I disagree with Sereinái.

If the HD determine who is affected, and the ability only works after you've been affected, then the ability does nothing.

Instead, they should be affected (for purposes of Awesome Display) when the spell goes off and they're in range.

Looking at color spray, which we can assume is intended to work with AD, the creatures are affected based on their HD. If their HD are reduced after being affected, then nothing changes. The only way for AD to have any effect at all is for the creature HD to be reduced before the spell effect is resolved.

Meaning the spray happens, HD are reduced, then the creature is affected based on their reduced HD.

The same should work with hypnotic pattern: Creatures in the pattern are affected (for purposes of Awesome Display), then 2d4+CL HD worth of reduced HD creatures become fascinated.


I see Awesome Display working like this.

Oracle has a Cha mod of +3 and has AD.

She casts Hypnotic Pattern and rolls an 8 after modifiers. The spell targets a 6 HD creature and two 4 HD creature.

All creatures fail their saving throw, and are affected by the spell. Normally, the spell would only affect the two 4 HD creatures, as 4 HD is removed from the 8 HD pool of the spell, twice.

With AD, however, the two 4 HD creatures are treated as two 1 HD creatures, totalling 2 HD removed from the 8 HD pool, leaving 6 HD in the pool. Since the 6 HD creature was also affected by the spell, it is also subject to the spell's effects and is treated as a 3 HD creature, totaling 5 HD removed from the pool after all three creatures are taken into account. The spell now has 3 HD left in the pool, and can affect additional creatures if applicable.

If the same Oracle casts Color Spray against a 5 HD creature, and that creature fails its saving throw, it would normally only be stunned for 1 round. With AD, however, the 5 HD creature is treated as a 2 HD creature, and is now unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round.


I have to change my mind on this one.

I don't know how I missed it even though I was looking for it. They do use 'affected' both before and after the save. I'll blame it on being early when I read it first.
Somehow I got it in my mind that it worked like this.
1. Spell is cast
2. We determine who is hit by it
3. Those are now affected
4. They suffer effects according to the spell
while it really should be
1. Spell is cast
2. Targets within area are affected
3. Saves to ignore spell
4. Remaining targets within limits of spell (HD) suffer effects

AD should lower HD of targets when determining who gets hit.

Now does this mean lower saves due to lower HD?


I do not think the HD reduction could happen before determining whether or not the creature is affected, as the act of reducing a creature's HD is the same as suffering negative levels. That is not happening here with this ability.

I believe what happens is what I proposed above. A creature that is targeted by the spell and fails its saving throw is affected by the spell. Once affected the creature is treated as a lower HD for the purpose of determining the spell's effects.

The process for Hypnotic Pattern should look like this:

1. The spell is cast, targets are determined by location (not HD), and HD pool is rolled.
2. The targets make a saving throw. If target fails saving throw, it is affected by the spell.
3. If affected by the spell, their HD is considered to be lower with AD.
4. Spell effects proceed as written, using each target's modified HD.

Shadow Lodge

As I understand this ability it lowers the EFFECTIVE HD of everyone affected, that is within the area of effect.

prd wrote:
Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.

In order to be affected the creature only needs to be in the area of effect. That means the order is this:

1.Spell is cast on area
2. All creatures inside that area count their HD as 3 lower (for oracle mentioned above)
3. spell goes off as described using the modified HD.
4. Saving Throws
5. Spell Effects

Shadow Lodge

I was hoping other people would see it that way and I wasn't just imagining extra power where it shouldn't be. Thank you everyone.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Oracle's Awesome Display exceeding HD limits All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.