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Looking at the new Pathfinder Player Companion book, Blood of the Moon. There is a new major hex called Delicious Fright.
Delicious Fright: The witch can feed on the fear of her victim. The target of this hex becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the witch’s Intelligence modifier. As long as the witch remains within 30 feet of her target, she gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +1 morale bonus on saving throws as long as this effect persists. A successful Will save reduces the duration of this hex to 1 round. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
I assume that this follows normal fear stacking rules (instead of the demoralize non-stacking). Since it doesn't state that it is a 1/day/target hex, I assume that you can hit the same creature with it on subsequent rounds. Or even do a demoralize to make them shaken, and then hex to make them frightened (and then even hex again to up it to panicked). I saw another thread asking about whether it is cackle-able. I hope that they rule that it is.
dot
Looking at the new Pathfinder Player Companion book, Blood of the Moon. There is a new major hex called Delicious Fright.
Delicious Fright: The witch can feed on the fear of her victim. The target of this hex becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the witch’s Intelligence modifier. As long as the witch remains within 30 feet of her target, she gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +1 morale bonus on saving throws as long as this effect persists. A successful Will save reduces the duration of this hex to 1 round. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.I assume that this follows normal fear stacking rules (instead of the demoralize non-stacking). Since it doesn't state that it is a 1/day/target hex, I assume that you can hit the same creature with it on subsequent rounds. Or even do a demoralize to make them shaken, and then hex to make them frightened (and then even hex again to up it to panicked). I saw another thread asking about whether it is cackle-able. I hope that they rule that it is.
This sets the fear level. I see no stacking on top of other fear effects. I see no problem using other fear effects to upgrade the fear from the hex if applied later.
With no 1/day text, I agree this is at will as often as you want on what you want. About the same as Evil Eye.
Cackle calls out "agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex", so not usable without errata.
/cevah
Delicious Fright: The witch can feed on the fear of her victim. The target of this hex becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the witch’s Intelligence modifier. As long as the witch remains within 30 feet of her target, she gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and a +1 morale bonus on saving throws as long as this effect persists. A successful Will save reduces the duration of this hex to 1 round. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Carry around a weak minded critter: easy way to get a multi-round buff since the buff is NOT limited vs. the victim only.
/cevah
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This sets the fear level. I see no stacking on top of other fear effects. I see no problem using other fear effects to upgrade the fear from the hex if applied later.
The rules say: Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.
Demoralize is the only one that I know of that has a specific caveat to NOT stack fear. So that is why I am pretty sure that the fear stacking should work in this case.
I would use the general principle that an effect doesn't stack with itself to say that yes, if you have other fear effects it'll escalate but no, it won't escalate with itself. I'm not sure how I feel about multiple witches each with this ability.
Yes. As long as you apply a different penalty with each use of the hex (AC, ability checks, attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks), you can have multiple penalties on the same target. Applying the same hex penalty to a target just resets the duration to the most recent use of the hex.
Example: On round 1, you hex the target's AC. On round 2, you hex the target's attack rolls, so the target now has two evil eye hexes on it. On round 3, you hex the target's saving throws, so it now has three evil eye hexes on it. On round 4, you hex its AC again, resetting the duration of the AC-hex (which does not add an additional –2 penalty to its AC). The same thing would happen if two witches were using evil eye on the same target--as long as each evil eye hex applied a penalty to a different thing, they'd all apply.
This doesn't violate the general rule for stacking penalties--each evil eye effect is basically a different source, even though they stem from the evil eye hex (the evil eye hex is much like 5 separate weak hexes under a common umbrella). In the same way that multiple castings of bestow curse on the same target should stack as long as they do different things (penalize Strength, penalize Dex, penalize attack rolls, take no action, and so on), multiple uses of the evil eye hex stack as long as they're targeting different game statistics.
This FAQ indicates that multiple uses for the same effect only reset/add the duration. It references Bestow Curse as similar. I would think this would be used for the Delicious Fright hex as well.
You now have a FAQ for a very similar situation, and you have the fear stacking rules disagreeing. I think the FAQ should take precedence.
/cevah
Was there any further clarification on this? I could see it in terms of "Witch Hex stuff is not stackable with itself, other than Cackle adding duration"
I'd see no issue with the Fright hex stacking with other fear effects, even the cause fear spell, which could stack with itself.
Heh, for a Hexcrafter Magus I see a fun use with this hex and a "Cruel" weapon.
It isn't specific to hexes. In general, multiple uses of the same ability do not stack in effect; rather, they overlap. If the ability has multiple possible effects, those do stack, as the ability is really several different sub-abilities.
** spoiler omitted **This FAQ indicates that multiple uses for the same effect only reset/add the duration. It references Bestow Curse as similar. I would think this would be used for the Delicious Fright hex as well.
You now have a FAQ for a very similar situation, and you have the fear stacking rules disagreeing. I think the FAQ should take precedence.
/cevah
I don't see it as very similar at all.
Penalties (and bonuses) from the same source usually do not stack. The Evil Eye FAQ is just clarifying that this is, indeed, the case for the Hex. Different penalties may be applied, but you may not double up on one.
However, Fear Effects are different. The general rule is that they stack, even when they come from the same source. The only exception is Demoralize (or if there are other exceptions I don't know about, they are explicitly stated as well).
The Hex should stack if you can make the target fail a second save. Much like if you use Aura of Doom (for example) and Cause Fear you can make an enemy Panicked.
No because Aura of Doom and Cause Fear are two different effects. IF you use Delicious fear on somone it then has two effects which both grant Shaken because it is the same effect it then over laps applying the one wth the longer duration.
Is there a rule somewhere that states that fear is an exception to the "same source doesn't stack" rule? The fact that fear effects themselves stack is not enough; so do bonuses, so long as they're untyped or of different types.
No because Aura of Doom and Cause Fear are two different effects. IF you use Delicious fear on somone it then has two effects which both grant Shaken because it is the same effect it then over laps applying the one wth the longer duration.
It works just as well if you cast Cause Fear twice, or Fear twice, or whatever. The only Fear effect that doesn't stack with itself is Demoralize, which it says very specifically is not the case.
This line:
Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.
Would not be necessary if it weren't an exception, it would be very redundant, and very odd that it's the only time this is explicitly stated.
Is there a rule somewhere that states that fear is an exception to the "same source doesn't stack" rule? The fact that fear effects themselves stack is not enough; so do bonuses, so long as they're untyped or of different types.
However, a Fear effect is not a Penalty/Bonus in and of itself. The Penalty/Bonus rule therefore doesn't apply.
As well, the wording of Fear effects stacking is not "Fear effects stack". It is "A Shaken creature that is made Shaken again is Frightened..." and etc. A slight difference, but an important one.
Just a blanket "If a Shakened creature is Shaken again it becomes Frightened" no ifs, ands, or buts about that one.
I was referring to the "same source doesn't stack" rules for spell effects (see "Stacking Effects" under Magic), not just penalties or bonuses.
Fear effects do stack, but not from multiple castings of the same non-instantaneous spell.
Edit: True, this isn't a spell, but I see no reason not to treat it the same way.
I was referring to the "same source doesn't stack" rules for spell effects (see "Stacking Effects" under Magic), not just penalties or bonuses.
Fear effects do stack, but not from multiple castings of the same non-instantaneous spell.
Edit: True, this isn't a spell, but I see no reason not to treat it the same way.
Not the same thing. That rule applies, specifically to:
"Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes"
Now, Shaken does impart a penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, etc. BUT that's not what the stacking increases.
The stacking leaves the bonuses and penalties the same. It doesn't break that rule. Frightened doesn't have a -4 penalty and then Panicked have a -6 penalty.
But they add another secondary effect when they stack. Very different thing here.
It's actually kinda supported by this bit in the same section:
"Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts."
Ex: You cause Shaken for 10 rounds, and then stack Shaken to Fear for 10 rounds the next round. When the first Shaken effect ends, however (in 9 rounds), the target is merely Shaken again.
I disagree that the entire section only applies to bonuses/penalties. Several of that section's subsections are worded more generally than that. I don't have any particular examples to cite about it, though, and I'm on a crummy phone browser to boot, so I concede for the time being.
I agree with blahpers.
This is two identical applications of the same magical effects, which specifically does not stack with eachother.
It doesn't matter whether the grant a bonus or a condition, since only a single instance (the longest duration) of the hex is in effect.