Who IS the Brawling armor property meant for, anyways?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I was looking at this again in the SRD and I'm just not sure who, if ANYONE, this is meant for. None of the low-BAB full casting classes would want it. Rangers and druids in Wild Shape don't focus on unarmed attacks, which is all this enchant applies to, they would have NATURAL attacks. The other medium-BAB classes are either incompatible with armor or aren't really given anything in the form of options to build towards any kind of worthwhile unarmed fighting focus. Virtually all the full-BAB classes and archetypes lack any sort of focus on unarmed strikes. It seems like the ONLY class or archetype that has any use for this is unarmed fighter archetype for, well, fighter. It's not like they NEED it, though, what with weapon training and full BAB.
What am I missing here? Paizo didn't put out an armor enchant whose intended focus was one single archetype of one single class, right?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's intended use is for you to ignore the last sentence of its description and apply it to robes or bracers of armor for a monk.


According to the author, it was meant for characters who wanted to be unarmed, but didn't want to be a monk.

Scarab Sages

There was actually a thread on this a while back and the designers actually said that yeah, it was for unarmed combatants who weren't monks. So pretty much anyone with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat who is also wearing armor.
Oh, and the Sohei during the levels where you can't Flurry with better weapons or as a melee weapon when using a bow.
**EDIT** Ninja'd by Cheapy.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's useful for anyone with improved unarmed strike, and grapple-focused characters. I could see a rogue, barbarian, or ranger brawler taking advantage of this. Remember, for Paizo, not every character has to be built with optimization in mind. I could probably make a few dozen character concepts who could make use of this property.

Scarab Sages

Unarmed Fighter, Brawler Fighter, Brutal Pugilist Barbarian or any barbarian with the Brawler rage power, Master of Many Style Monks who don't care about wisdom based abilities, Sohei Monks, Ninja with Unarmed Combat Training come immediately to mind.


minoritarian wrote:
Unarmed Fighter, Brawler Fighter, Brutal Pugilist Barbarian or any barbarian with the Brawler rage power, Master of Many Style Monks who don't care about wisdom based abilities, Sohei Monks, Ninja with Unarmed Combat Training come immediately to mind.

So, when a ninja is punching you while invisible for their BAB +4 (including this enchant) for nearly full monk damage PLUS their sneak dice, this isn't overpowered, but on a monk it would be. Makes me wonder why Paizo wants people to be monks in the first place.


Cerberus Seven wrote:
minoritarian wrote:
Unarmed Fighter, Brawler Fighter, Brutal Pugilist Barbarian or any barbarian with the Brawler rage power, Master of Many Style Monks who don't care about wisdom based abilities, Sohei Monks, Ninja with Unarmed Combat Training come immediately to mind.
So, when a ninja is punching you while invisible for their BAB +4 (including this enchant) for nearly full monk damage PLUS their sneak dice, this isn't overpowered, but on a monk it would be. Makes me wonder why Paizo wants people to be monks in the first place.

You'll find similar results if you continuously only compare things for their best use.

Think of bards, rogues, inquisitors, druids...anything but some optimal case like the ninja.


Melee-focused Cleric/Monk who's wisdom score isn't enough to make armor obsolete. Plant Domain a plus.

Dark Archive

A two-weapon fighting ranger with unarmed strikes enjoys brawling just fine I think. The latest clarification on the sohei means it is now THE sohei enhancement.


Grapple druids
Any unarmed or grapple focused build
Strangle rogues
Barbs
Fighters

Pretty much jusy not monks... silly ain't it?


In part the armor is probably designed to make up for the fact that non-monk dipping unarmed strike users have 1d3 damage dice. There was also the problem of enhancing unarmed strikes, but that is a bit past.


All those monks without flurry of blows, Tetori particularly.


Nicos wrote:
All those monks without flurry of blows, Tetori particularly.

So the tetori has to take a feat for proficiency then lose his monk AC bonus... lose his Wis bonus to AC and CMD?

Seems pretty lousy for the tetori.


Lord_Malkov wrote:
Nicos wrote:
All those monks without flurry of blows, Tetori particularly.

So the tetori has to take a feat for proficiency then lose his monk AC bonus... lose his Wis bonus to AC and CMD?

Seems pretty lousy for the tetori.

You can put it in mithral weapons and suffer no penalty from non proficiency.

Obviously if you go that route you do not invst much in wisdom. You do invest in str (or dex) and be a better grappler.

Grand Lodge

Anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike.


Nicos wrote:
Lord_Malkov wrote:
Nicos wrote:
All those monks without flurry of blows, Tetori particularly.

So the tetori has to take a feat for proficiency then lose his monk AC bonus... lose his Wis bonus to AC and CMD?

Seems pretty lousy for the tetori.

You can put it in mithral weapons and suffer no penalty from non proficiency.

Obviously if you go that route you do not invst much in wisdom. You do invest in str (or dex) and be a better grappler.

Actually, since brawling is for light armors, you wouldn't even need mithral. Anyone (or -thing in the case of animal companion barding) can wear leather or masterwork studded leather. Heck, grab armor expert and a chain shirt is right around the corner. It is all the same as long as Armor check penalty is reduced to 0, making the nonproficiency penalty 0.

And let's admit it: Once flurry is gone, you only have the AC boost and speed boost. You can do without. And are you really going to running up such a high wisdom that regular armor is not a better option? The level up bonuses to AC were only there to make up for not getting armor enhancements anyway.

EDIT: ah, also the CMD boost, but still, is it worth it?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Who IS the Brawling armor property meant for, anyways? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion