Critique my next Gestalt Char


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Level 9 2 handed fighter/invulnerable rager. To make this mention, my group thought barbarian sudden death syndrome was dumb, and that requiring a single feat by all barbarians to prevent it equally so, so they changed how barbarians rage temp hp worked so raging vitality is no longer required, and barbs dont get sudden death. Now that said.

Human. Name: Sunder Dat
Weapon: Adamantine Lucerne Hammer

Human bonus feat: Improved Initiative

Fighter Feats
1-Power Attack
2-Improved Sunder
4-Weapon Focus
6-Greater Sunder
8-Dazzling Display

General Feats
1-Combat Reflexes
3-Extra Rage: Witch Hunter
5-Extra Rage: Knock back
7-Extra Rage: Lesser Beast Totem
9-Extra Rage: Smasher

Rage Powers
2-Superstition
4-Strength Surge
6-Spell Sunder
8-Beast Totem

Traits-Dangerously Curious, Unnatural Presence.

I just wanted to say i didnt all out optomize him on purpose, rather i think with gestalt, optomizing just leads sometimes rediculously overpowered characters.

Sczarni

well you've doubled down on the fort save but ignored ref/will.

Personally I'd suggest going with say Vivisectionist Alchemist with the Barbarian, now you can sneak attack when able, you've got better saves, and you're now using "double" rage basically which will vastly out weigh anything you get from the fighter alone imo.


I disagree with your assessment of "Barbarian sudden death syndrome" as if you die after coming out of Rage it just means you were super screwed and Rage was the only thing keeping you alive (not the cause of death), but that's beside the point.

You're going pretty much standard optimized Barbarian build whether you intended to or not, so you're pretty good there. I'm assuming you're also going to be taking "Come and Get Me" due to Combat Reflexes?

Fighter is good for the feats, but I'm not sure if Two Handed Fighter is worth using for you. Pretty soon you'll have Pounce so Overhand Chop ceases to matter and while Backswing sounds cool, I'm not sure how much it's really doing for you damage wise in the long run. I'd go Weapon Master.

I'd also consider a level of Oracle on the Fighter side. Go Dual Cursed with your scaling curse being Lame and take the Misfortune revelation. Force all the re-rolls in the world and gain the ability to Rage cycle.

All of that is of course you are set on Fighter/Barbarian. I do like Vivisectionist with Barbarian too. Take the Discoveries to gain a extra limbs and the one to get two claws and a bite while using a Mutagen. Combine that with the Beast Totem line and you are looking at 4 claws and a bite, all full BAB and full strength... but yeah that might be a bit much.


im set on fighter, and yes CaGM at 12. However im actively avoiding the ability to rage cycle. Its a bit because we are trying not to "break" things balancewise, our group has a wide range of game mastery. So we try to optomize more for fun then for being the absolute best at something, otherwise i woulda went falcata >.>

I look at weapon master, and honestly, it just doesnt seem to be much different to me. reliable strike is nice, but i dont think im gonna miss that often to begin with. everything else id rather have what 2 handed fighter offers.

as a peak, later levels will build on weapon focus, specialization, and building on the dazzling display line. and i think, Dazing assault+reckless abandon.

Sczarni

seriously the class that best synergizes with Barb I'd say has to be the Alchemist, also though like he said the oracle lame mystery works amazing (at lvl 5 you're immune to fatigue, so you can rage cycle all day for those "1/per rage" powers) also if you're allowing crazy things in your game, look at the lucky gambler trait? basically all your rage rounds are now 1+1d4 when you can rage cycle....

If you go Oracle, you can gestalt the oracle side into rage prophet for virtually no loss.

Sczarni

If you're set on fighter, I'd recommend going the weapon master route, or gladiator route.

Also it's just me, but I really really like the tetsubo as a weapon for two hands, it's just fun when you crit....


a later game i might try alchemist with a barbarian (for psuedo hulk fun) but like i said, already set on fighter. and i just dont see the benefit of weapon master over 2 handed fighter. My absolute main thing is sundering what i can.

and yes tetsubo is awesome but A-someone using it already and B-wanted to use a martial weapon, not a fancy eastern one. maybe when i get to 19 ill see about re-training my focus...but right now lucerne hammer offers me lots of options. that and my d12's are nice to me.

Sczarni

ok, what benefit are you gaining from 2handed fighter?

Weapon master lets you sunder more effectively (and help prevent getting disarmed!)

Your criticals will also do more too eventually. All you're getting from 2handed archetype is really just 50% more dmg from your strength bonus. IE if your strength is 30, you're only getting another 5pts. Weapon training gets you +1 to hit and damage (the to hit also applies to Combat manuevers you do with that weapon) Also when you critical, you can re-roll if you don't confirm which is huge, criticals tend to help end a fight a round or so sooner.

I mentioned the gladiator because I noticed your dazzling display, if you look at the gladiator performance combat stuff, you can use dazzling display as part of drawing your weapon and get a free check, if you succeed, they are all demoralized without you spending a standard to do dazzling.


2 handed fighter also lets you sunder more effectively and helps prevent getting disarmed.

Im not really focusing on criticals, i understand its optimal (stupidly so in pathfinder it seems) but a lucerne isnt gonna get any better then 19-20...so im not focusing on it lest i run out of things to pick.

Also level 19 2 handed fighter ability if i really wanted to crit, tho i admit that lends itself better to the scythe or tetsubo like you said. something to consider for retraining maybe.

Gladiator is a good point for dazzling, but my main focus is sundering, not intimidation, thats just a happy side thing :). I do like it tho.

Sczarni

It sounds like you have your mind made up and are just looking for affirmation of your choices.

Quote:
Shaken: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

You'll find making your opponent weaker in this method AND breaking their weapons will do alot for you.

As it stands between the sunder barbarian powers, and just having power attack imp/g sunder it won't be too difficult to get the broken condition going. If you're out to destroy, that's silly as it hampers your aquisition of gear from your opponents.

You're still in a gestalt style game leaving yourself way to vulnerable on the save side by ignoring classes that can give you more defensive abilities.


With Pounce I really can't think of any situation where you'll want to use a full round action for something not full attacking. With that in mind, Cornugon Smash and drop Dazzling Display. Free action intimidate check every time you connect with a swing while Power Attacking.

lantzkev wrote:
You're still in a gestalt style game leaving yourself way to vulnerable on the save side by ignoring classes that can give you more defensive abilities.

With Superstition and the bonus to Will saves from Rage, he's still fine for the most part.

EDIT: Martial Artist Monk + Invulnerable Rager Barbarian would be really awesome though.


ya i know i seem pretty set, but only because i picked over it carefully and havent found a suggestion that would really push me in a different direction. It doesnt mean i dont appreciate any input you provide tho. As far as my saves go, they are good when i rage, i admit they suck when im not...but im ok with that. Weaknesses can make a more cmopelling character, rather then just a walking bastion of perfection :P. Ive considered the iron will feat, just unsure of what level id want to aquire it.

I would take Cornugon Smash, but our group has a rule where we only use what we have the books for. and we dont have that one. Plus i look at it like this. I dont nessesarily WANT to get into combat before everyone else. You want the classes with painfully high intiative and multi enemy save or suck type abilities to go first...For me, i use my first round to dazzling display, then my second round to charge/pounce.

And i admit, i love the interaction of reach weapons, knockback, and later CaGM. Plus i figure if i really need to, i can fall back on my claws for either attacking, or a knockback attempt.

Sczarni

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You're a fighter and have the feats for it, I'd strongly suggest going for the following

Quote:

Performing Combatant (Combat)

You treat every combat as a performance, bringing flare and showmanship.
Prerequisites: Dazzling Display, any one performance feat.
Benefit: You can make performance combat checks in any combat. When making a performance check outside of performance combat, you can pick a single performance feat to use. You automatically gain any bonus on the performance combat check the feat grants, and then you make a DC 20 performance combat check. On a success, you gain the full effect of the performance feat you chose.[/qutoe]

Quote:

Hero's Display (Combat, Performance)

With a dramatic flourish you display your weapons to the crowd. Onlookers are elated, and your enemies are demoralized.
Prerequisites: Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, and proficiency with the selected weapon.
Benefit: When you spend a swift action to make a performance combat check, you present the weapon in which you have Weapon Focus in a triumphant display. You gain a +2 bonus on the performance combat check and make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your display.
Quote:

Dramatic Display (Combat, Performance)

Your skill with your weapon is obvious to enemies and onlookers alike.
Prerequisite: Dazzling Display.
Benefit: When you spend a swift action to make a performance check, you exude an aura of awe-inspiring skill. You gain a +2 bonus on your performance check, and gain a +2 bonus on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks until the end of your next turn.
Quote:

Masterful Display (Combat, Performance)

You craft a special victory performance that causes the crowd to go wild.
Prerequisites: Dazzling Display, any two performance feats.
Benefit: Choose the effects of any two performance feats you have. When you make a performance combat check, you gain the benefits of those two feats, but you only gain a +2 bonus on the performance combat check.

You can stop at just the first two, but the other two are pretty sweet as well and make it more likely to happen nearly every time.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

As everyone else has said, there's a lot of overlap here. Gestalt is good for expanding horizons, but you're going to be just as limited as a standard barbarian or fighter would be, and only slightly better at what you'd accomplish single class.

Dark Archive

My advice for any martial Gestalt build is to mix a martial and a caster class. It is a lot easier to fall behind casters in a Gestalt game if you mix just the martial classes together. The martial only Gestalt is fun at low levels but you will be left behind by players with caster levels.

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