I really like the Gauntlet Witch archtype that was published in Kobold's last issue, but after playing one for a while, I came to the conclusion that it just couldn't mechanically deliver what it's implied to.
The biggest issue is of course the Witches low BA....not once was I able to land a grapple with the gauntlet. On one occasion I managed to land a disarm....against a 1HD old farmer....I felt like a bully :(
So I have been working on a re-work of the archtype, and I like the direction it's going.....but I have one balance concern.
I have re-written the "gauntlet grip" ability, so that it basically allows the witch to use her levels as her BA when calculating CMB for grapple and disarm (only)....
There is precedence for this, both with the Monk, and one of the Battle Oracle mysteries....however in both cases the ability is taking them from 3/4 BA to full BA.
In this case it's a bigger bump, although spread across 20 levels, and only for the two combat maneuvers.
So opinions???
Is it over the top ?
Hey nighttree, thanks for the interest in the Gauntlet Witch!!! I'm stoked to see you found the time to rework it, and sorry to see it didn't quite come up to scratch martially...
I'm currently reworking a Revised and Expanded Gauntlet Witch, as part of Strange Brew: Battlewitches and Hexcrafters itself part of Christina Stiles' upcoming Ultimate Witches and Warlocks Kickstarter, compiling the 15 or so racial variants I did on the KQblog and my OSW's Racial Archetypes thread...as well as adding a martial Alternate Witch (the amazingly creatively named Witchsoldier) and some more archetypes from myself and freelancer Christos Gurd.
Re: the Gauntle Witch Pain Clasp: I didn't have quite the same trouble landing grips, though I definitely did find it more difficult than a 3/4 or Full BAB martial. I think your solution could work, or even moving from 1/2 to 3/4, with it's own table. Though I like the ease of substituting level for BAB - if we do that, there might be some other balancer to think about. If you don't mind, I'll run with this and run some math/playtests and credit you as a contributor in the revision...
sweetness playtest data before it even makes it into the kickstarter, also, thanks for the shout out OSW!
I did a little research after seeing the archetype mentioned in another thread. Gauntlet Witch does seem like an interesting concept. But it wouldn't seem best to base it off of the Witch class itself.
Rather, I see a Gauntlet Witch as aiming to be something like a Magus (Bladebound/Hexcrafter/Cabalist), with a spiked/bladed gauntlet as your "Black Blade".
This build has small RAW issues, but nothing that wouldn't be simple to resolve (both Hexcrafter and Cabalist modify Spells, but in different ways where both could still work).
Yep. You could just reskin a Bladebound/Hexcrafter/Cabalist magus to have a gauntlet instead of a black blade. But I didn't. ;)
Yep. You could just reskin a Bladebound/Hexcrafter/Cabalist magus to have a gauntlet instead of a black blade. But I didn't. ;)
WOW....didn't expect the creator of the Archtype....I'm all a fluster.
Let me share what IMO was the intent of some of the abilities (and please correct me if I'm wrong)...and the direction I have been going with them...First, I know there where some "witchblade" comments...which I don't personally think is a bad thing....but what I actually kept picturing where scenes from Dune movies, like Jessica grabbing Stilgar in a choke hold and using "voice" on him. I don't think you can make a really melee capable character from the base witch class....but I do think you can make a witch that has some suprises up her sleeve if someone tries to treat her as a normal squishy witch ;)
Pain Clasp: I wanted mostly to see an ability to reliably land grapples and disarms, I think this makes the many touch spells witches have on their list a bit more attractive for the gauntlet witch compared to a normal witch. I retained the Int mod replacing Str mod for Strength checks.
I also expanded the feats available to include Deflect arrows, Snatch arrows, and Choke hold....as they all seem to fit thematically to me.
While at work today, it hit me that it may be a better option to simply allow her to add her Int mod in addition to whatever physical stat she is using for CMB ??? I'll have to look at the numbers and see how that scales as opposed to a flat increase of 1 per level.
I removed Lore, Aegis strike, and Pain clasp....
I added an Arcane pool to the Gauntlet (same limited number of points as the Black blade to the gauntlet....none to the witch herself).
Re-added the point cost back into abilities like Teleport gauntlet.
I replaced Agias Strike, with Accursed Grasp, basically a revers engineering of the Hexcrafter ability...which allows a Gauntlet witch to cast any spell prepared with the "curse" descriptor as a touch attack (so usable as a grapple attack as well), and allows her to choose Magus Arcana instead of a Hex.
Not many of the Magus Arcana are really worth giving up a hex for...but it does allow you to customize a greater degree of melee into your gauntlet witch should you choose to.
I also added the ability (I think at about 13th level) to use a swift action, to expend a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level prepared spell as a swift action and gain pool points equal to the level of the spell expended.
Re-added Spell defence at the same level as the black blade.
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Shopping right now, but I had a quick look.
Looks cool. Nice and different from my design path, and definitely more Magus-esque while still retaining the witch feel - I like it.
I'm pretty sure a tacit Deflect Arrows was in an earlier version if not one of the variants... It's kinda my artistic genome signature...
The Helion 3PP class is also close.
I did some number crunching to see what kind of a difference there was between the two methods of addressing Gauntlet grip.
I based my numbers off of an assumed +2 ability mod to the physical ability CMB would be based on.
And an assumed +4 Int mod when that became relevant.
In both cases I assumed the Gauntlet witch would attempt to increase those abilities as ability score increases occurred. But didn't include magic item options and such....I wanted straight numbers from the class.
Option 1 was to allow the gauntlet witch to use her witch level as BA when determining CMB for grapple and disarm.
Option 2 was to allow the gauntlet witch to add her Int mod in addition to normal physical ability mod to her CMB when performing grapple and disarm.
So...the results.
Adding Int mod to the CMB is noticeably stronger at low levels (1st through 4th,) and allowed the GW to start with a CMB of +6, as opposed to a +3 for the level=BA version.
After 4th level the level=BA model begins to pull up, and from 7th to 16th level the two models usually perform within+1pt of each other.
From 16th level on, the level=BA model continues to pull ahead of the Int to CMB model, and finishes off the race with about a +4 over what the Int to CMB model pulls off.
My thinking at the moment is to go with the Int mod to CMB option.
It gives a stronger start early on when her resources are low, and gradually backs off as she becomes more reliant on spells.
Opinions ???
It's definitively non-standard in application and methodology - the only thing close to comparable with this is the monk bonus to AC equal to their WIS mod (and they also get the "add your level to combat manuevers instead" thing as well).
However, the basic idea does seem solid. This surprises me - I originally thought I'd prefer the "add level instead" approach, but the results of your experiment are extremely interesting.
One thing I'd ask you to compare before fully weighing in, however: how does this stand up to any other standard grappler in the game?
Basic monk?
Basic fighter?
Basic <insert thing here>?
I'm not actually asking about a class that unduly focuses on grappling, either, because asking for an equal power in their specialty while granting ninth level spells is goofy. I'm just asking for basic class comparison.
Another thing: how does the CMB compare to the CMD of creatures she faces in either situation?
Finally: what of the idea of (almost) running with both options? In other words, how would such a thing compare if, say, you replaced STR with INT and generated grapple increase based on level?
This thread might be helpful (I don't know - I haven't read it yet, and I'm out of time right now, though I saw it just sitting there as I was typing this and went, "sure, why not?" and put it in here. :D)
The level as BA approach has been done a few times (Monk, Battle Oracle, etc) but so has the "add ability mod in addition" (Canny slueth ability for example)....Just not sure it's been done for CMB before.
I think with either approach, the Gauntlet witches specialization in grapple and disarm still fall short of a Monk or Fighter...
She can't hope to compete with the higher BA of more martial focused classes....and I'm actually OK with that.
I was more interested in a witch that could really rock the touch spells (which many witches shy from getting into range for) and that had enough AC to increase her survivability especially at low levels.
The gauntlet witch to my mind is more of a barbarian clan/witch, or a Signifer/Hellknight.
She doesn't have the melee abilities of even a Magus,Cleric, Oracle or such....but isn't at a complete loss when the enemy get's adjacent either.
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Here is a cleaned up version of the abilities...I'd love to hear what people think ???
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A gauntlet witch is proficient with all simple weapons and Armor spikes.
A gauntlet witch is also proficient with light armor, and can cast witch spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a gauntlet witch wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.
A multiclass gauntlet witch incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
A gauntlet witch’s weapons proficiency with spiked armor and light armor proficiency replaces the witch’s 1st level hex.
Armor Training: Starting at 8th level, a gauntlet witch can gain the following armor training at the expense of her hex
ability. Each additional level of armor training allows the gauntlet witch to cast spells in heavier armor.
An eldritch gauntlet becomes incorporated as part of any medium or heavy armor the gauntlet witch wears.
Therefore, the non-magical armor statistics of the medium or heavy armor supersedes that of the eldritch gauntlet.
Medium Armor (Ex): A gauntlet witch gains proficiency with medium armor.
This is exactly like the magus’ class feature of the same name. A gauntlet witch must be at least 8th level before
selecting this armor training. This ability replaces a witch’s hex at 8th level or higher.
Heavy Armor (Ex): A gauntlet witch gains proficiency with heavy armor. This is exactly like the magus’ class feature of
the same name. A gauntlet witch must select medium armor and be at least 14th level before selecting this armor training. This ability replaces a witch’s hex at 14th level or higher.
Eldritch Gauntlet (Su): At 1st level, the gauntlet witch gains a powerful sentient weapon called an eldritch gauntlet that teaches her magic, provides guidance, stores her spells, and grants her additional abilities (see the Witch’s Familiar in
the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide and the Eldritch Gauntlet abilities below). The eldritch gauntlet is both masterwork armor and masterwork weapon. Its sleeve of mail envelops one side of the witch’s upper chest and the witch’s arm from the shoulder to the wrist. Spiked metal plates cover this, similar to the shoulder to-wrist protection on a suit of full plate, ending in a clawed gauntlet.
The eldritch gauntlet has both the weapon statistics of a spiked armor and the armor statistics of studded leather, but it weighs only 15 lbs. The eldritch gauntlet uses one of the weilders hand and wrist item slots and her chest slot.
The gauntlet witch must commune with her eldritch gauntlet each day to prepare her spells, much like a standard witch must do with her familiar. An eldritch gauntlet stores all of the witch’s known spells, and a gauntlet witch can only prepare a spell stored within the eldritch gauntlet. A gauntlet witch can also add new spells to her eldritch gauntlet, in the same way a witch can add spells to her familiar (see the 'Adding Spells to a Witch’s Familiar' sidebar of the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide).
A witch with this class feature does not gain the witch’s familiar, and cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another
class.
Gauntlet Grip: Due to the specialized martial training she receives from the eldritch gauntlet, a gauntlet witch add's her intelligence bonus (if any) on all grapple and disarm combat maneuver checks, in addition to adding her strength modifier when calculating her CMB to performe these combat maneuvers made with the gauntlet.
She only provokes AoO with these maneuvers if she fails at the attempted manuever.
A gauntlet witch can manipulate her gauntlet as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score, and add's her Int modifier instead of her Strength modifier on any Strength checks, or Strength-based skill checks made with the gauntlet.
At 4th level or above, she may select Deflect arrows, Improved disarm, or Improved grapple as one of her normal feats, even if she does not meet the normal prerequisites for it.
At 8th level or above, she may likewise select Choke hold, Greater disarm, Greater grapple or Snatch arrows, even if she does not meet the normal prerequisites for it.
A witch’s eldritch gauntlet otherwise functions as and replaces the witch’s familiar.
Hex Arcana: At 4th level, a gauntlet witch gains access to the following hex, or may select any magus arcana which she meets the requirement for in place of a hex. She gains the benefit of or uses that arcana as if she were a magus of a level equal to her witch level. She cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.
Accursed Grasp (Sp): A gauntlet witch can cast bestow curse, major curse, or any spell with the curse descriptor that she has prepared, as a touch attack, and can deliver the spell through her eldritch gauntlet as part of her “free” attack roll.
If successful, this attack has its normal effect as well as the effects of the spell.
Note: All combat maneuvers are attack rolls, anything that is activated by a successful attack are activated by a successful combat maneuver as well.
This ability replaces the witches 4th level hex
Eldritch gauntlet basics:
An eldritch gauntlet is a particular form of intelligent armor given to a gauntlet witch.
A witch might gain this dual-purpose item several ways.
Covens-Militant present most eldritch gauntlets to initiates as equal parts contract and reward to help the new witches fulfill their missions.
Sometimes, however, the item just appears among a witch’s possessions, its origins being a mystery.
Sometimes elders within a family pass them down to their children or grandchildren in an ongoing search for a witch who
can unlock such antique gauntlets’ true potential.
+3 AC, Max Dex +5, Check pen -0, ASF 15%, Spd 30ft, Wt 15lbs.
+1 attack, 1D6 dmg, crit x2, P/S, light, off hand martial melee weapon.
As a gauntlet witch increases in level, her eldritch gauntlet gains power.
An eldritch gauntlet is independently conscious, but it features some personality traits reflecting its wielder.
The eldritch gauntlet always shares its wielder’s alignment and even changes its alignment if its wielder does.
The gauntlet typically works toward its wielder’s goals, though not always without argument or backlash.
Each eldritch gauntlet has a mission, and while sometimes two or more eldritch gauntlets will work in concert, each mission is independent. The GM usually decides the eldritch gauntlet’s mission and the needs of the campaign, coven,
or the adventure; or a GM can roll randomly for the weapon’s purpose, using the Intelligent Item Purpose table in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.
An eldritch gauntlet bonds to a particular gauntlet witch, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship.
Intelligence: A gauntlet starts with a 10 Intelligence, and its Intelligence increases by 1 point for every two levels of the
gauntlet witch (at 3rd level, 5th level, and so forth).
Wisdom and Charisma: As the gauntlet witch advances in level, so do the eldritch gauntlet’s Wisdom and Charisma ability
scores. These abilities start at 6, and each increases by 1 for every two levels of the gauntlet witch.
Ego: An eldritch gauntlet starts with an ego of 3, and its ego increases as the gauntlet becomes more powerful, as per the Eldritch Gauntlet Progression Table below. If the wearer and the eldritch gauntlet come into conflict, an eldritch gauntlet can attempt to exert its dominance, using the rules per the Items against Characters rules in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. Due to its specialized nature, an eldritch gauntlet has a nonstandard ego progression.
Languages and Skills: An eldritch gauntlet starts with Common as a language.
As the eldritch gauntlet increases in Intelligence, it gains knowledge of additional languages and arcane lore.
When it reaches an Intelligence of 12, it gains a bonus language of the GM’s choice, and it gains 1 rank in a Knowledge skill (either arcana, dungeoneering, engineering, geography, nature, nobility, or religion). Each time the gauntlet gains
an Intelligence modifier bonus, it gains another language and another rank in a Knowledge skill.
Senses: An eldritch gauntlet is aware of everything around it like a creature that can see and hear.
It can be blinded and deafened as if it were a creature. It uses its wearer’s saving throws.
Eldritch Pool: An eldritch gauntlet has an arcane pool with a number of points equal to 1 + its Intelligence bonus.
Eldritch Gauntlet Ability description
An eldritch gauntlet has special abilities (or imparts abilities to its wearer), depending on the wearer’s witch level.
The abilities (but not bonuses) are cumulative. An eldritch gauntlet normally refuses to use any of its abilities when wielded by anyone other than its bonded witch, and acts as masterwork spiked armor of its type.
Alertness (Ex): While a witch wears her eldritch gauntlet, she gains the Alertness feat.
Telepathy (Su): A gauntlet witch communicates with her eldritch gauntlet telepathically in any language they share.
Unbreakable (Su): As long as it has 1 pt in it's eldritch pool, an eldritch gauntlet is immune to the broken condition.
If broken, the gauntlet is unconscious and powerless until repaired.
If destroyed, the eldritch gauntlet can be remade 1 week later through a special ritual costing 200 gp per witch level.
The ritual takes 24 hrs to complete.
Malleable Magic (Su): At 3rd level or higher, as a swift action, a gauntlet witch can expend a single 1st-, 2nd- or 3rd-level spell to regain 1 arcane pool point per level of the expendid spell. She can’t exceed the maximum number of arcane pool points in her gauntlets pool by using this ability.
Toughness (Ex): At 5th level, wearing the eldritch gauntlet grants the gauntlet witch the Toughness feat.
Teleport Gauntlet (Sp): As a standard action, a gauntlet witch of 9th level or higher can expend an arcane point from her gauntlets arcane pool, and can call her eldritch gauntlet from as far as 1 mile away, teleporting it instantaneously to her hand.
Spell Defense (Sp): A gauntlet witch of 13th level or higher can expend an arcane point from her gauntlet’s arcane pool as a free action; she then gains SR equal to her gauntlet’s ego until the start of her next turn.
Drain Husk (Su): At 19th level, each time the gauntlet witch kills a living creature (whether through the use of hexes, spells, or melee) while wielding the eldritch gauntlet, she gains temporary hp equal to the eldritch gauntlet’s ego (these temporary hp last for 1 minute). The creature killed must have a number of Hit Dice equal to half the witch’s character level for this to occur.
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That looks neat. Had I not already built this character as a sorcerer/ninja, I'd be considering gauntlet witch:
@ nighttree - as soon as I get a moment away from worrying about the 25,000 hectare fire on my doorstep I'll take a look. On first view it looks like a nice tweak...
@ Umbral - absolutely beautiful. Do you do commissions?
That looks neat. Had I not already built this character as a sorcerer/ninja, I'd be considering gauntlet witch:
I want to steal that for a character idea (or even NPC) if I may!
Also, I'll look later at the new stuff. Sorry. Life. :/
I didn't draw that myself. I commissioned Psuedofolio to draw my Pathfinder character.
Okay, thanx for the heads-up UR!
That looks very neat, nighttree.
Five suggestions (there were six, but I forgot one):
1) The very-specific description of the gauntlet is both cool, and, perhaps, a bit too overly-specific. It may behoove you to make that a "typical" appearance instead of just "the appearance" but that's up to you.
2) You may want to make it less likely that a personality conflict emerges between the witch and her gauntlet. If that occurs, she basically loses all of her class features. That's huge! It's even bigger in that it takes up three item slots! You don't have to change much, just a note that, "Usually a conflict doesn't occur for <reasons>" or something (obviously don't copy/paste that). :)
EDIT: seems that you did make that in there. Sorry. Never mind. Carry on.
3) I'm wondering if she even needs the proficiency with armors at all. The gauntlet basically covers all of her needs in that regard, and it's unlikely that she'll wear anything else outside of a personality conflict. It could simply be noted as the gauntlet not interfering with her witch spells instead of typical armor training.
4) Giving up some of her hexes for some of this seems a bit of a weak trade, to me, but I'm unsure. I'm not saying you did it wrong, it just seems weaker over-all. But maybe the gauntlet really makes up for that.
5) Is there any idea surrounding the ability to make the gauntlet (temporarily) "disappear" or otherwise become innocuous in an "off" state? Because that would be pretty awesome. I have this visual of the witch looking like nothing, but then BAM this magical gauntlet grows or unfolds or something like that all up her arm and around her hand. This is similar to the 9th level ability of Teleporting the gauntlet to you, I admit. I wonder if there's some way to have a lower-level weaker version of this?
That looks very neat, nighttree.
Five suggestions (there were six, but I forgot one):
1) The very-specific description of the gauntlet is both cool, and, perhaps, a bit too overly-specific. It may behoove you to make that a "typical" appearance instead of just "the appearance" but that's up to you.
2) You may want to make it less likely that a personality conflict emerges between the witch and her gauntlet. If that occurs, she basically loses all of her class features. That's huge! It's even bigger in that it takes up three item slots! You don't have to change much, just a note that, "Usually a conflict doesn't occur for <reasons>" or something (obviously don't copy/paste that). :)
EDIT: seems that you did make that in there. Sorry. Never mind. Carry on.3) I'm wondering if she even needs the proficiency with armors at all. The gauntlet basically covers all of her needs in that regard, and it's unlikely that she'll wear anything else outside of a personality conflict. It could simply be noted as the gauntlet not interfering with her witch spells instead of typical armor training.
4) Giving up some of her hexes for some of this seems a bit of a weak trade, to me, but I'm unsure. I'm not saying you did it wrong, it just seems weaker over-all. But maybe the gauntlet really makes up for that.
5) Is there any idea surrounding the ability to make the gauntlet (temporarily) "disappear" or otherwise become innocuous in an "off" state? Because that would be pretty awesome. I have this visual of the witch looking like nothing, but then BAM this magical gauntlet grows or unfolds or something like that all up her arm and around her hand. This is similar to the 9th level ability of Teleporting the gauntlet to you, I admit. I wonder if there's some way to have a lower-level weaker version of this?
1) I actually see the gauntlet as reflecting the nature of the witch and her patron to some degree, so the description in the block is meant to be more of a guidline than "set in stone" description.
If you patron is First world, have Darkwood plates and thorns, if they are celestial, have sleek silver & gold armor :)I never take those kind of descriptive texts too seriously, and tend to assume no one else does either ;)
3)As I understand it, since the gauntlet functions "as" armor, then she would need proficiency. Remember this is an unusual case where it's covering both bases.
I also moved from the original "spiked gauntlet" which is already a simple/light weapon (so technically all witches are proficient) and changed it to armor spikes (which are a melee weapon, with a special of usable in a grapple) so I needed to call that out as well. So that first level hex is giving her armored casting, one free weapon prof, and light armor prof.
4) Hexes rock...no doubt there, and this has been one of the biggest problems balancing the class. I'm not concerned with trading hexes for Arcana...I think it's a pretty fair trade across the board, and allows the flexibility to design her as melee...or de-buffer as the player wants. One of my biggest goals was to make sure the archtype was not "pigeon holing" the character to much....to my mind it's all about flexibility.
Although increased armor proficiency may seem like a poor trade off for a hex...you have to look at the whole picture and decide what actually happens once you do that....with a few arcana pumping her melee, and the abilities granted by the gauntlet...she could actually be a pretty descent gish, especially if she is willing to diminish her spellcasting by pumping spells into the gauntlet to renew her pool points.
5) That ones easy, at least once you have teleport gauntlet.
Stow it in your gear....go to the fancy ball in a gown, and when the times right....summon the gauntlet to you ;)
That looks neat. Had I not already built this character as a sorcerer/ninja, I'd be considering gauntlet witch:
And a fine gauntlet witch they would make ;)
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An example of some of my inspiration (hope this works )
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@Tacticslion - just a couple of points on your comments:
1: Seeing as nighttree has cribbed and then tweaked this almost verbatim from my original the specificity was from there. In fact the original Gauntlet Witch described the gauntlet as "similar to a gladiator's lorica manica or a samurai's kote. In my 15 or so variants on the KQblog and my Racial Archetypes thread I detailed (among other things) a dwarven mining gauntlet, a goblin vril-powered combat harness, a semi-sentient hissing and snorting symbiotic fiendflesh gauntlet for Tieflings, anancestor's spirit filigree gauntlet for Elves and talon-spiked gauntlet for huginn (the Midgard Campain setting's tengu). So, the possibilities are fairly endless.
5: Oooh. I like that - perhaps not a weaker teleport but an illusionary ability or just a immediate/swift enable. I could definitely see this work for a stealthy racial variant! Mind if i use that for the aforementioned Expansion/Revision.
@Nighttree - hmm, yes spike gauntlet prof is redundant! Good catch! Armor spikes might be a good idea depending on the variant.
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@Tacticslion - just a couple of points on your comments:
1: Seeing as nighttree has cribbed and then tweaked this almost verbatim from my original the specificity was from there. In fact the original Gauntlet Witch described the gauntlet as "similar to a gladiator's lorica manica or a samurai's kote. In my 15 or so variants on the KQblog and my Racial Archetypes thread I detailed (among other things) a dwarven mining gauntlet, a goblin vril-powered combat harness, a semi-sentient hissing and snorting symbiotic fiendflesh gauntlet for Tieflings, anancestor's spirit filigree gauntlet for Elves and talon-spiked gauntlet for huginn (the Midgard Campain setting's tengu). So, the possibilities are fairly endless.
Yes, VERY important note...Oceanshieldwolf's text has been kept intact as much as possible.
It was in no small part his descriptions that first hooked me on this idea and inspired my interest in the archtype.Apologies for not thinking to make this clear from the start, I get carried away sometimes and forget the niceties....my bad ;)
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No harm nighttree!!!
And, if we are acknowledging folks it was Ben McFarland who suggested identifying the eldritch gauntlet with the gladiator's lorica manica based on my early descriptions. The Samurai kote concept was more mine, and IIRC Jim Wettstein was more the push to cover the upper body as well as the arm!
We are all building on each other - but I should state Witchblade, whether U.S. comic/TV OR crazy hentai versions were not my inspiration. But they are both logical progressions!
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I never really got a "witchblade" feel from the original, although in hindsight I can see how some people did...and I actually like the witchblade idea.
What really get's my interest is an archtype that can be taken different directions based on the players interests.
My interest in this was basically spurred by a character concept for a Sarkorian witch, who wanted to take back her homeland.
Given what is going on in the Worldwound (in WotR), some of the witches have taken a more "martial" approach to dealing with the demon threat.
Your idea of a "Coven militant" that was more melee focused was perfect, and spurred my interest.
I knew that I could go the Blackblade/Hexcrafter route, but that didn't really feel true to the direction I wanted the concept to go....the gauntlet witch did.
So I created the "Grand Dame" of the Widowknife clan, and her cabal of Gauntlet witches (and normal witches, magus, rangers, oracles....etc) as a response to events in the world wound.
@ Oceanshieldwolf: I know the Magus is more or less the Pathfinder answer to a warlock....Is the version in "Ultimate witches and warlocks" a different take than this ???
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@ Oceanshieldwolf: I know the Magus is more or less the Pathfinder answer to a warlock....Is the version in "Ultimate witches and warlocks" a different take than this ???
Very much different. More like a historical pact warlock. More than that I cannot say. ;p
I NEVER felt the Magus was anywhere remotely near anything like a warlock either in theme or execution.
@ Oceanshieldwolf: I know the Magus is more or less the Pathfinder answer to a warlock....Is the version in "Ultimate witches and warlocks" a different take than this ???Very much different. More like a historical pact warlock. More than that I cannot say. ;p
EXCELLENT....I have tried a number of different routes to build a warlock based more on historic lore (Binder, Oracle, even tried using the Synthesist)...but none of them come out feeling right.
Oceanshiledwolf: do whatever you like! Feel free, man! It's on the forums for a reason. I'm just glad that I can possibly help! :D
Also, you guys are awesome. Loving these ideas.
So does anyone see any glaring balance problems ?