Goblin Squad Member
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But nobody actually likes those terms in that arrangement, and I mostly just insist on keeping them consistent so we understand what we're talking about. So... crowdforge us some new terms! :)
Qualifications:
- Must be immediately clear what's going on just based on the name (i.e., no really obscure words).
- Must make sense in the context of a(n) X Tool, X Kit, and X Node.
There's a challenge!
Looking for terms for
(a) resource collection from a node.
(b) resource collection from a node, after finding a special node that allows using the kit, etc.
(c) (optional) resource collection from an outpost structure.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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(a) Picking, as in 'picking flowers' or the verb form of the mining pick; see also junkyard picking.
(b) 'Lodeing' or 'finding the mother lode' for identifying the location, 'installing' the '[mining|woodcutting|mowing|fishing] kit' to activate it, which creates a '[mining|woodcutting|mowing|fishing] site' , and then 'accumulating' the local supply over time into the 'stash' and 'grabbing' the products when desired.
(c) Outposts also 'accumulate' a 'stash' which can be 'grabbed'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does concern me that you can't trade/sell or give away rights to node.
Let's say I discover a node that will give me Mithril, but I don't have near the skill to mine it. It is wasted then. I would like to see it where I could go back to my settlement and either inform some 'friends' where it is so they can mine it or possibly, get a finder's fee. Say 15% of the resources mined by giving rights to mine it to someone else.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Repost from blog thread)
Okay. Crowdforging verbs meaning “the collection of resources”…here are some possibilities:
Gathering
Harvesting
Collecting
Farming
Reaping
Accumulating
Stockpiling
Aggregating
Massing
Picking
Extracting
There are more in the thesaurus but they become increasingly obscure.
My mind still goes to “gathering” for the small jobs, normally undertaken by a single person, maybe two or three:
Gathering kit, gathering tool (sickle), gathering node (berry bush, honey bee nest, silkworm nest).
Larger jobs that consolidate large amounts of a resource still lead me to “harvesting”, where four, five, or twenty people could participate in the same goal on a larger scale:
Harvesting kit, harvesting tool (scythe), harvesting site…node seems too small for a harvest (orchard, farm, vineyard).
I added "extracting" for underground sites...mines in particular, which would also include the process of gathering an impure raw material and making it more pure through another process (smelting metals from ore, rare plant, creature organ or part processing for alchemists, getting juice or fibers from flora, finding gaseous cloud and collecting vapor)
Extracting kit, extracting tool (press or tweezers), extracting site...bigger than berry bush but smaller than a farm (foggy cloud, swarm of stirges, gooey zombie kidney)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gathering has a non-specific meaning so it could be applied to herbs, ore, wood...
I very much agree with this, but worry that it might be difficult to reverse the meaning now that so much has already been written. However, if the devs are comfortable doing so, I would think using "Gathering" for the solo process would be best.
As for the kit-based process... Hrm...
First, some questions:
Must make sense in the context of a(n) X Tool, X Kit, and X Node.
1. Does it make sense for the Tool used in the kit-based process to be named differently than the Tool used for the solo process?
2. Will a(n) X Tool even be used in the kit-based process?I'm assuming the answer to both questions is "No", so I'm crossing that requirement off the list with respect to the kit-based process.
So, my recommendations for the kit-based process are Extraction. It maintains a generic sense, so that it's reasonably applied to any particular resource type, and "Extraction Kit" sounds perfect.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...worry that it might be difficult to reverse the meaning now that so much has already been written.
I also agree that "gathering" has the right scale for the small job we're looking to describe. Perhaps the fact that we're still the same only-a-couple-hundred-voices here on the boards might make it a bit easier to shift to this definition vs the current usage, as not many besides us are yet using it in the original mode.
A key dev's said he's willing to discuss conceptual terminology with us; you know at least one of the ideas that's already gone through his mind is this. His post in the other thread almost says it in so many words :-).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I ... worry that it might be difficult to reverse the meaning now that so much has already been written. However, if the devs are comfortable doing so, I would think using "Gathering" for the solo process would be best.
As indicated by the roll call, the community which is closely following development from week to week isn't that big at this point. We can just change the terms we use and move on, letting the cultural meme propagate forward. Ultimately, that's how it will work anyway, since linguistic conventions are a very evolutionary, ground-up process rather than a designed, top-down one. Even dictionaries are more descriptive than proscriptive, and jargon is much more malleable and less codified than that.
Dundee's Law
Fighting the battle for nomenclature with your players is a futile act. Whatever they want to call things is what they will be called.
I say call the random minor stuff 'gathering', the planned major projects 'harvesting', and the generic all-inclusive term 'collecting'. We could even come up with more specific and evocative terms based on the type of material. For example, item & skill descriptions could refer to a 'Mining Camp' as a type of 'Harvesting Kit', providing both a simple term and a more roleplay-friendly one. We should also expect that at some point people will start talking about "farming mats", and the only way to combat that is by deliberate misunderstanding, shunning/ignoring, or even ridiculing them. It may not be nice, but they'll only change their habits if there's value in doing so, even if the value only amounts to a relief of peer pressure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah but you harvest a glut: It could be a small orchard of 12 trees stripped in a few hours if you plus a few are nimble!
Extraction/Farming takes months of preparation/set-up eg oil rig or a farm plough field, hedges, weeds, level ground, sow, fertilise, grow, check, harvest on a good day and repeat the process until you need to leave the field fallow and then put some sheep on it to eat and weeds, poop on it. Plus all the auxillery equipment that requires. A harvest is usually a particular machine or set of. Could even be sending off livestock to slaughter or if logging: growing age type of conifer (for eg) before harvest different sizes/age groups. You'd have mahouts in certain countries and other places would freeze the logs over winter on a river then spring thaw float them down stream to process. Etc
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I understand your post Avena, you argue that harvesting is done when a large amount of resource is brought in quickly. And I agree with you 100% on that, so in that context harvest does make a lot of sense for the kit based one.
However, the word harvest (to me at least) also implies a part of a cycle that includes setting the resource up in some way, letting it grow/removing from the ground/whatever, and then "harvesting", or collecting that resource.
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Goblin Squad Member
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OK. It seems as though we are breaking the process down into four groups instead of just three as previously envisioned:
Gathering – performed on a single node or plant, with or without a tool. Includes things like a small mineral deposit, a single fruit tree, a small find of timber, a berry bush. (Picking might be considered a subset of gathering).
Harvesting – a process of reaping the fruits of a large find with a machine/kit (a small orchard, a large nest of honey bees, a large patch of mint leaves, the phosphorescent algae floating on Glow Water Lake)
Farming or Ranching – a process of planting, and when appropriate reaping. This function can be manipulated, the crop changed or rotated, adjusted for seasons, and may happen more than once per season depending on the specific resource in question. Performed by a semi-permanent structure. Planted crops, farm animals, a vineyard…although “ranching” doesn’t sound appropriate.
Extracting – this process implies an existing resource has that and has been discovered. The process of removing the resource requires a significant set-up period and perhaps a semi-permanent structure (an oil rig, a vaporization chamber, a sluice mine).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree with most everyone who says that Gathering is a solo activity: herbs, fruit, random low utility but frequent stones and metals. I.E. like in every other MMO out there.
I think beyond that, it would handy to discriminate between actions that are spontaneous and actions that are planned. For a spontaneous example, a PC or company says "Hey look, I found a small-sized XYZ special node of rare stuff, everyone help me guard it!" I see that as unplanned Harvesting. This might require a PC to go back to a Settlement to get "tool kits" or hire laborer NPCs to collect the resources, but it would be a short term point-of-action by a small number of people to gain a small volume with high value. The full task could be completed in a matter of minutes to hours.
For planned activities, such as a larger scale Outpost setup generated by a Settlement, I would use more complex terms (maybe even a few delineated by the type and name of the Outpost):
Cultivating (crop/tree farming),
Mining/Extracting (ores/gems/rare metal veins underground),
Ranching (sheep/cattle type raising)
These actions would require a more complex model, and might take days or weeks to complete the action. Other job roles could be developed such as a caravan to transport the final resource, protection details (by a company or NPC force/guards), and should be able to be a target for opposing settlements / companies to wrest control of or destroy outright.
Gathering/Harveting regular Nodes uses the exact same Skill as "Gusher" Nodes: it's the same basic activity,
the only difference is one is using a "Kit" which comes with storage container, etc.
Outposts are wholly separate, and if they invoke any skill it will be some type of PoI Management skill.
They are also meant to provide "Bulk Materials", so "gems and rare metals" seem unlikely Outpost materials.
I would guess that GW will make most Outposts continually producing, not requiring a long time to complete some action.
I can't say for certain, but I haven't seen any indication that things such as basic "food" from farming will be a production goal,
I get the impression that GW is pushing that aspect "off screen" in order to focus on things that interact economically at more levels
than just providing a required caloric intake per day to all playing characters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Quandary: I'm guessing Farms will feed into the DI of Settlements perhaps much as Wood and Stone from Outposts would do so? I don't think the devs are too keen on as you say the calorific intake required to survive out in the bush per day or settlements putting away their weapons of war for Harvest time?! :)