I think there's a huge difference in strategically withdrawing to better plan how to handle something vs. we don't want to die so we're not even going to deal with it.
a secret organization of vigilantes founded by Krampus who's being attacked by witches and have been getting foreshadowing that they'll eventually have to fight bodysnatching Nazi robots that feed off Negative Energon Cubes, and what they don't know is that their government is trying to counter the Nazi robots with their own dopplegangers made from ancient aboleth technology.
<runs away>
Does anyone else have, play with or are players that run away a lot?
When you run, you usually survive. You might not get the treasure or kill the monster, but you survive.
Like in real life, do you know who often dies first? That’s right, the guy in the front.
Players like this are just survivalists, not really heroes. Either that or they are doing what they would do in real life. Because in real life, that’s probably the smart thing to do. Lol.
Does anyone else have, play with or are players that run away a lot?When you run, you usually survive. You might not get the treasure or kill the monster, but you survive.
Like in real life, do you know who often dies first? That’s right, the guy in the front.
Players like this are just survivalists, not really heroes. Either that or they are doing what they would do in real life. Because in real life, that’s probably the smart thing to do. Lol.
Yes, but also in real life, we can't summon monsters from other realms, ride the monsters of mythology into battle, or potentially slay the Lords of Hell themselves haha while you should always be cautious in an encounter, fleeing shouldn't be your first course of action
Repeatedly saying "This campaign has more to deal with narrative than challenges, which means that if push comes to shove I will likely nerf challenges if I see that you are in trouble, and I am more willing to use some kind of Deus Ex Machina to keep you alive rather than kill you if the narrative would be better for it. You are unlikely to need to roll for a new character unless your character runs out of stakes and is no longer relevant to the plot. This is barring situations of supreme stupidity like jumping off of a cliff with no plan or touching the magic item clearly labeled "Do not touch! Skin will come off!""
... and reemphasizing it whenever they want to run away from a monster because it looks too scary doesn't seem to be enough.
Paraphrasing :
"this campaign is more about the story than about fights. Fights are going to be no challenge to you. And anyway I'll do my utmost to see you are not going to die'
This is an extreme interpretation of course but are you sure this is not how your PCs are hearing you . So fights have no challenge aka no excitment left so let's go find someone else to care take of them and let us go back to the story .
I would hope not. I'm not very interested in running a meat grinder, and I still have index cards for very character specific plot points I haven't used yet. A middle ground is difficult because I'm really struggling to NOT kill them because they are particularly helpless against quite a few things that are sadly the main antagonists. Right now they are in sort of a puzzle-plot dungeon sidequest I made so I have some time to figure out what to do so that they don't immediately die.
a secret organization of vigilantes founded by Krampus who's being attacked by witches and have been getting foreshadowing that they'll eventually have to fight bodysnatching Nazi robots that feed off Negative Energon Cubes, and what they don't know is that their government is trying to counter the Nazi robots with their own dopplegangers made from ancient aboleth technology.<runs away>
There's nothing scary about that when you're a group of tough adventurers.
Yes, but also in real life, we can't summon monsters from other realms, ride the monsters of mythology into battle, or potentially slay the Lords of Hell themselves haha while you should always be cautious in an encounter, fleeing shouldn't be your first course of actionDoes anyone else have, play with or are players that run away a lot?When you run, you usually survive. You might not get the treasure or kill the monster, but you survive.
Like in real life, do you know who often dies first? That’s right, the guy in the front.
Players like this are just survivalists, not really heroes. Either that or they are doing what they would do in real life. Because in real life, that’s probably the smart thing to do. Lol.
It's less often individual encounters (because once you roll for initiative its usually kill or be killed.) but general situations.
Example: One campaign the players find out that there is a Demon about to be released during the full moon. Someone is trying to summon it and the town is of no help because the demon's influence is making them mistrustful of each other. They're a group of tough mercenaries. To stop it they must;
1) stop evil guy from summoning demon by killing evil guy.
2) summon it during the daytime to try to weaken it.
3) help the anti-hero summon it who wants to kill it.
4) destroy the summoning site entirely.
5) or stall until full moon when soldiers are scheduled to arrive.
What do players do: run away to meet soldiers so that they'll do stuff for them leaving the town to the whims of evil guy.
What do players do: run away to meet soldiers so that they'll do stuff for them leaving the town to the whims of evil guy.
I suppose I'm not the greatest person for this thread then; destroying the summoning site entirely would be my first goal haha. I do love me some story and good roleplaying, but turning my back on an atrocity being committed is something I could never do
I can understand scaredyness. I generally stand by the idea that if people are emotionally invested in their characters, they dont want to see them die (especially if ressurection is difficult/impossible). Some people are able to divorce their characters from themselves, some not. I will admit, I might have a hard time "rolling up" a new character after a long-time one died. It could completely kill my interest in a campaign.
(Note: I'm a fairly new player, and havent had any of my characters die on me up to now).Still, a general knowledge: tactics skill could be useful, especially when the GM likes throwing out "new and undiscovered" creatures at the party.
In a game I was playing recently (dragon age rpg, not pathfinder), I was playing a rogue and got ROYALLY thrashed through a combination of horrible attack rolls for me, and excellent attack rolls for the enemy. That really shook me, and I've got to say I know I'm going to have to set myself up better from now on. I dont know the system terribly well and sneaking/backstabbing in combat in that system is not yet obvious to me.
To the OP, Williamoak has good points here. Maybe you need to desensitize them a bit. Start off with 1st level characters and don't pull any punches. They'll di, then have them roll up and do it again. After they learn that death in PF (or any RPG) just means you roll up a new character they might be less afraid of it.
To the OP, Williamoak has good points here. Maybe you need to desensitize them a bit. Start off with 1st level characters and don't pull any punches. They'll di, then have them roll up and do it again. After they learn that death in PF (or any RPG) just means you roll up a new character they might be less afraid of it.
Oh dear, that really wasnt my intent. I like to have my characters live. I dont think they should be desensitized. I'd rather be invested in a character and have fun develloping it, and that aint possible if you die eh?
If I wanted to be desensitized from death, I'd either paly a video game (where death doesnt matter) or call of cthulu (where character dont matter, for what i've seen anyway).
I'd much rather see players care about their characters. I'd rather be in a careful group that wants to survive than with "throw-away" characters.
The sole exception being PFS. I generally just test out build ideas there.
To the OP, Williamoak has good points here. Maybe you need to desensitize them a bit. Start off with 1st level characters and don't pull any punches. They'll di, then have them roll up and do it again. After they learn that death in PF (or any RPG) just means you roll up a new character they might be less afraid of it.
Oh dear, that really wasnt my intent. I like to have my characters live. I dont think they should be desensitized. I'd rather be invested in a character and have fun develloping it, and that aint possible if you die eh?
If I wanted to be desensitized from death, I'd either paly a video game (where death doesnt matter) or call of cthulu (where character dont matter, for what i've seen anyway).
I'd much rather see players care about their characters. I'd rather be in a careful group that wants to survive than with "throw-away" characters.
The sole exception being PFS. I generally just test out build ideas there.
Williamoak,
I did not mean to imply that was your suggestion. It was mine. Your comments about being concerned about your character dying led to it.
I don't think desensitizing will leave them not caring about losing a character. I've just seen people that have never had a character die, and they can be too concerned about it. As if it's a personal tragedy or flaw if it happens. In fact I'd say losing some characters to death will make you more proud and considerate of the characters that do make it up in levels.
By seeing their characters die a few times they'll realize it's like going bankrupt in Monopoly. It's a game, you just start a new one. It's not that you no longer care about your character, but you see that risking death in PF, simply is a choice between doing something fun in the game, and avoiding the fun in the game. It's not just in combat, sometimes you just have to jump the chasm in PF. If you make it it's cool, if not you take damage and either get healed up or roll up a new character. Think how much fun Monopoly would be if you bought the first property you landed on, then tried to ride out the rest of the game as a method to avoid losing?
...
I dont think I quite agree. In a game like monopoly, you've got simple goals, a short timeframe, and limited emotional investment. A campaign, on the other hand, can last months (even years). It's that emotional investment that keeps you there even if you arent with particularly close friends.
However, I do agree it's possible for shorter term stuff. I generally have very little care with my PFS characters; those are entirely things to play tactically with. But in a long campaign, the death of a character I was with for quite a while would probably make me loose interest, especially if all that effort is "lost".
It doesnt help that I'm mainly playing with people that I consider relative strangers. With friend I might have a better reason to stay, since my investment in the game isnt entirelly tied to the character.
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a secret organization of vigilantes founded by Krampus who's being attacked by witches and have been getting foreshadowing that they'll eventually have to fight bodysnatching Nazi robots that feed off Negative Energon Cubes, and what they don't know is that their government is trying to counter the Nazi robots with their own dopplegangers made from ancient aboleth technology.<runs away>
Nazi robots, are those in bestiary 4?
My brother plays a flamboyantly gay Dwarf assassin who runs away from monsters frequently. We don't mind because it's his schtick.
Nazi robots, are those in bestiary 4?a secret organization of vigilantes founded by Krampus who's being attacked by witches and have been getting foreshadowing that they'll eventually have to fight bodysnatching Nazi robots that feed off Negative Energon Cubes, and what they don't know is that their government is trying to counter the Nazi robots with their own dopplegangers made from ancient aboleth technology.<runs away>
Modified Clockwork creatures created by a man who clockworked himself to deal with Kytons. The man gets involved with human supremacists.(a response to a lot of half-things in the setting.)
human supremacists.(a response to a lot of half-things in the setting.)
I just stole this.
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It's an odd thing to do, but it might be a good idea to put them in a dungeon where running simply isn't an option - the doorway behind them is blocked off, or whatever. Moving forward is the only way.
If they're put up against encounters they think are too much for them but are actually surprisingly easy, they might build up some courage (for next time).
There's a PFS scenario that specifically does something like this, but I can't remember which one it is, or what tier.
There's always the option of having them run NPC classes. It takes a special breed to be an adventurer.
I figure its not really about whether you run away or not- its the attitude.
Its about whether the running away is motivated by logic or by the player being a whiny coward.
In real life we are told to run away and seek help, it's funny when that line of thinking spills over to RPG's.
The thing is that in PF, the "heroes" are suppose to be who other people run to seek help from. Heck, even Scooby and Shaggy swallowed their fear after some encouragement. Though I don't know what is worse cowardly player's or apathetic ones.
The thing is that in PF, the "heroes" are suppose to be who other people run to seek help from. Heck, even Scooby and Shaggy swallowed their fear after some encouragement. Though I don't know what is worse cowardly player's or apathetic ones.
So... Ask the players if they'll do it for a Scooby Snack?
In real life we are told to run away and seek help, it's funny when that line of thinking spills over to RPG's.The thing is that in PF, the "heroes" are suppose to be who other people run to seek help from.
Perhaps that's the intent, but the game can be played as a sandbox where the PCs are just glory/money hungry mercs. Those guys will employ the exit strategy if things go south, or look to go south, or if one of them thinks going south would be nice.
Put them in a position where others are relying on them to find their courage; i.e. a young boy and girl have been kidnapped, and time is of the essence.
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Put them in a position where others are relying on them to find their courage; i.e. a young boy and girl have been kidnapped, and time is of the essence.
This is a solid suggestion. The characters should feel a sense of obligation and purpose. If the NPCs expect them to be heroes then they'll probably start acting like it. Furthermore, let them experience first hand the cost of cowardice. Don't be afraid to have kidnap victims meet bad ends if the PCs falter, or the villagers massacred by the scary things that live in the forest.