Litany:
If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype).
Detect Good:
As Detect Evil
Detect Evil:
3rd Round: The power and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
Who shows up?
Aligned Creature (that counts the PCs) of 5HD or more
Paladins and Clerics of 1HD or more.
There is obviously no question that a Good PC of 5HD has an Good Aura.
Is there any reason to believe that the information in the parentheses for the Litany mean that nothing else that has a Good Aura counts? It seems more likely that what is in the parentheses lets you know what sort of 'good aura' we are talking about. Not limiting it to only those two things.
The Good Aura referenced by Litany of Righteousness is the Aura class feature of Clerics and Paladins or a creature with the Good subtype. Registering to Detect Good is irrelevant.
It's a bit confusing since detect evil uses the same term, but yes, they mean cleric/paladin/good subtype auras, not the auras that show up under detect evil (which happen to include all of the above along with good-aligned creatures with sufficient hit dice).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Litany of Righteous is basically saying Paladins and Clerics of good gods will deal double damage on their attacks, because they have an aura granted by their class that is a good aura. Outsiders with the [good] subtype also have good auras. Being good aligned (alone) does not allow you get double damage.
The Good Aura referenced by Litany of Righteousness is the Aura class feature of Clerics and Paladins or a creature with the Good subtype. Registering to Detect Good is irrelevant.
Except that the aura that a paladin or cleric gives off is the exact same as the one detected by Detect Good.
A 4th level Paladin and an 11th level Good Rogue have the same aura.
Outsiders with the [good] subtype also have good auras.
So do aligned creatures with 5 or more HD.
In fact.
Aligned outsiders have exactly the same aura as aligned creatures of enough HD.
There isn't even a distinction mentioned other than in Detect Good/Evil.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
iammercy, Clerics (of a good god) and Paladins specifically have a good aura as a class feature.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of good
(see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
As per the spell, you need a good aura from a class feature. These two classes qualify since they have an Aura from a class feature.
Additionally, as per the spell, creatures with the good subtype qualify.
Simply having a run of the mill good aura is insufficient and this really does not have anything to do with Detect Good and regular alignment auras.
- Gauss
Paladin:
The power of a paladin's aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
Cleric:
A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see detect evil for details).
Both state very clearly that these class skills enhance the aura that all things have.
i.e. An 11th level Good Rogue does have a Good Aura.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But an 11th level Good Rogue does not have a Good Aura from a class feature.
- Gauss
Simply having a run of the mill good aura is insufficient and this really does not have anything to do with Detect Good and regular alignment auras.- Gauss
BUt that is exactly the point. A paladins aura is nothing more than what anyone else has, just stronger.
But an 11th level Good Rogue does not have a Good Aura from a class feature.
- Gauss
And a 400th level Paladin does not have a Good Aura from a class feature either.. only a bonus to their good aura.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A 1st level Paladin has a Good Aura from a class feature. Perhaps you should read the pages I quoted? It specifically states they have a Good Aura and it is a class feature.
- Gauss
Iammercy you can keep arguing around this, but the result is that good aligned creatures do not do double damage. They do not have a good aura for the purposes of Litany of the Righteous. I promise you, this is how it works. Outsiders with the good subtype, Paladins, and clerics of good aligned gods are the only creatures that the spell litany of righteous works for (unless I'm forgetting a class which also grants auras, but I don't believe I am).
|
tossing out some more info....
litany of righteousness is on the paladin and inquisitor spell list.
although an inquisitor does not have a good aura he could cast it on a paladin or good aligned cleric.
remember that the spell does offer spell resis. to whomever you are trying to deal the dam. to. And of course they must be evil as well to take the double dam.
works with spells as well. Like a cheesy pathfinder savant taking 1 lvl dip in paladin to cast damaging spells to do double dam. to evil folk.
Also heard that if you confirm a crit. you add 1 to the multiplier instead
of doing the double dam. but not sure on that.
Well, you don't cast the spell on a paladin or cleric. You cast it on a specific evil creature. Then anyone who attacks that creature who has a good aura gets double damage.
The spell could suck terribly for Inquisitors as I see nothing that gives them a class aura.
Another trick for snagging the double damage is the 2nd level Cleric spell, Bestow Aura.
A party with a Cleric willing to buff everyone with this and an Inquisitor or Paladin dropping Litanies of Righteousness can rack up serious nova rounds.
So nothing from any official source on this.
Clearly an aura exists for everyone, although slightly stronger for some.
And Gauss.. a 5th level good Rogue has a Good Aura from the RAW. See the spell Detect Good (which points to Detect Evil).
Claxon. You actually cannot promise me something that has not been clarified by them that wrote things. You may be correct as to their intent but it is a muddy thing.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How is this a bloody question?
Litany of Righteousness says it right there!
"from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype."
So no, unless you have a good aura as part of a class feature or have the good subtype, you don't get double damage.
Ridiculous. Didn't even read the spell.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
iammmercy, the spell is not based on 'a good aura'. It is based on 'a good aura from a '.
Only two classes have a good aura class feature. Clerics (worshiping a good aligned deity) and Paladins. This is stated right in the text on the relevant classes.
Class Features
The following are class features of the cleric.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Clerics are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient with the favored weapon of their deity.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the paladin.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype).
So lets ask:
1) Does the attacker have a good aura?Yes: Proceed to question 2.
No: Does not benefit from Litany of Righteousness
2) Is the good aura from a class feature or alignment subtype?
Yes: Benefits from Litany of Righteousness
No: Does not benefit from Litany of Righteousness
I do not know how much simpler this can get. Yes, a good aligned human Rogue has a good aura. No, it does not have an Aura from a class feature or alignment subtype.
- Gauss
Sheesh, this is seeing "You can apply your Dex modifier to a light weapon" and ignoring the word "light" because you don't like it.
While some spells are ambiguous, this one is not. It specifically calls out which good auras qualify for the extra damage. Not just any old good aura will do--it has to come from one of the listed sources.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Scavion, It's a bloody question because often times text within parenthesis is used to explain something as opposed to being a limiter. Of course had you read the thread you would know that.
Gauss, you are making up words. Obviously it is not based on 'a good aura from a class feature' since the first sentence states very clearly 'Calling down a litany of anathema, you make an evil more
susceptible to the attacks of good creatures' and it also specifically includes outsiders (who don't have a good aura from a class feature [see, this is how parenthesis usually work]).
blahpers, except it's nothing like that at all. The spell specifically starts out saying 'hey guys! This is for good creatures' then later, if you take the parens to be exclusive says 'haha.. just kidding'. So it would be more like if Paizo wrote 'You can apply your Dex modifier to a light weapon' and then three sentences later wrote 'oh just kidding, only if you are under 4'3"'.
The spell states you have to have an Aura from a class feature OR have the good subtype.
Gauss provided the appropriate quotes.
iammercy: maybe you should not ask a question if you can not live with the answer?
Besides, even the developer of this spell (or one of the authors of the book it is in) has once stated in this forum, that it was probably a mistake to make this spell available to paladins and inquistors instead of clerics and paladins, as inquistors do not have an aura granted by a class feature.
iammercy: maybe you should not ask a question if you can not live with the answer?
Besides, even the developer of this spell (or one of the authors of the book it is in)has once stated in this forum, that it was probably a mistake to make this spell available to paladins and inquistors instead of clerics and paladins, as inquistors do not have an Aura granted by a class Feature.
That would have been a great thing to have linked.
Also, unless the answer comes from one of the devs it is hardly automatically true.
iammercy: maybe you should not ask a question if you can not live with the answer?
Besides, even the developer of this spell (or one of the authors of the book it is in)has once stated in this forum, that it was probably a mistake to make this spell available to paladins and inquistors instead of clerics and paladins, as inquistors do not have an Aura granted by a class Feature.
That would have been a great thing to have linked.
Also, unless the answer comes from one of the devs it is hardly automatically true.
Why should I have linked it? Read your second sentence again and tell me it would have made a difference.
Why should I have linked it? Read your second sentence again and tell me it would have made a difference.iammercy: maybe you should not ask a question if you can not live with the answer?
Besides, even the developer of this spell (or one of the authors of the book it is in)has once stated in this forum, that it was probably a mistake to make this spell available to paladins and inquistors instead of clerics and paladins, as inquistors do not have an Aura granted by a class Feature.
That would have been a great thing to have linked.
Also, unless the answer comes from one of the devs it is hardly automatically true.
Well..
The first sentence of the spell implies it would help anything with a good aura.A paladins good aura is the same good aura as anyone else's of sufficient level.
As far as I can tell every single other Litany spell is intended to work for an Inquisitor.
The number of mistakes or unclear wording in pathfinder is hardly 0.
The developers could very easily have been attempting to clarify what a good aura is, as opposed to limiting which good auras are included.
Oh, and a good reason to link it would be that it would have clarified the developers intent for the spell.
So I did not remember 100% correctly, it was James Jacobs who answered a question in his Ask-me-all-you-want-thread:
So I did not remember 100% correctly, it was James Jacobs who answered a question in his Ask-me-all-you-want-thread:
Thank you!
blahpers, except it's nothing like that at all. The spell specifically starts out saying 'hey guys! This is for good creatures' then later, if you take the parens to be exclusive says 'haha.. just kidding'. So it would be more like if Paizo wrote 'You can apply your Dex modifier to a light weapon' and then three sentences later wrote 'oh just kidding, only if you are under 4'3"'.
So, your complaint is that the fluff of the spell doesn't match the rules? Uh, so? That happens all the time.
And the idea of a feat that describes itself as allowing you to use Dexterity with light weapons, but actually only works if you're Small or smaller sounds pretty reasonable, honestly. There are plenty of things with arbitrary restrictions like that.
iammercy, I quoted the spell, I did not make up words. Here it is again:
If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype).
See? Nothing made up, it is right from the spell.
Now, lets go find people with a good aura from a class feature.
Barbarian? No
Bard? No
Cleric? YES (if worshiping a good deity)
Druid? No
Fighter? No
Paladin? YES
Ranger? No
Rogue? No
Sorcerer? No
Wizard? No
So, in the CRB there are two classes with a good aura from a class feature. It states this in those classes. Also nothing made up.
Next, I specifically stated that creatures with a good alignment subtype qualify. Why did you think I didn't?
Please do not state that I am making up rules. I do not lie, I do not make rules up unless I specifically state it is a house rule.
- Gauss
C'mon, iammercy, you can't seriously believe that parentheses can only convey optional information.
|
As an aside, especially from the heat of this discussion, I do find it interesting that Inquisitors don't have the Aura class feature. Except for a few spells and feats and Aura is actually a hindrance as it makes you vulnerable things. It just seems to me that the feel of an inquisitor is that of a very zealous member of the given faith, and of course fuelled in that zeal by their deity's power, which to me says Aura all over it.
I believe this is the spell in question.
Yeh looking at the spell, the brackets specifically call out that its either a subtype of a class feature. It elaborares.
Another trick for snagging the double damage is the 2nd level Cleric spell, Bestow Aura.
Can you point me to the source for the Bestow Aura spell? I can't find it.
Thanks
D'oh, yeah, it's Imbue with Aura not Bestow Aura.
Thanks to the pig for finding the right link.
Of course, now if you ever change your avatar, this comment will make me look like a crazy person.
As an aside, especially from the heat of this discussion, I do find it interesting that Inquisitors don't have the Aura class feature. Except for a few spells and feats and Aura is actually a hindrance as it makes you vulnerable things. It just seems to me that the feel of an inquisitor is that of a very zealous member of the given faith, and of course fuelled in that zeal by their deity's power, which to me says Aura all over it.
Perhaps, given that inquisitors tend to skirt the boundaries of what constitutes a deity's teachings, they don't tend to be people that said deity would want to hold up as an example of their faith.
Additionally, it could be because an inquisitor is more driven by the power of their own personal convictions. Zealousness tends go hand-in-hand with incredible self-assurance/delusion. You can also be an inquisitor of an ideal or an organization, not just a deity. Just like sorcerers are the self-fueled ying to a wizard's studious yang, so inquisitors are to clerics.
Another trick for snagging the double damage is the 2nd level Cleric spell, Bestow Aura.
Can you point me to the source for the Bestow Aura spell? I can't find it.
ThanksD'oh, yeah, it's Imbue with Aura not Bestow Aura.
Thanks to the pig for finding the right link.
Of course, now if you ever change your avatar, this comment will make me look like a crazy person.
And abandon Squealy Nord? Unthinkable.
C'mon, iammercy, you can't seriously believe that parentheses can only convey optional information.
Actually I was more thinking along the lines that the developers meant to have the words 'for example' and forgot them.
However, what I said was "often times text within parenthesis is used to explain something". Often times != can only.
James Jacobs has chimed in on this.
Ask MJ
Although from his response he clearly doesn't actually know either. But it hardly matters.
iammercy, no, the spell is clear to everyone but you. The developers clearly intended the people who can benefit to be those with a good aura as a class feature or an good alignment subtype.
- Gauss
iammercy, no, the spell is clear to everyone but you. The developers clearly intended the people who can benefit to be those with a good aura as a class feature or an good alignment subtype.
- Gauss
Thank you for your input.