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This Forum is for Fact Please and a miniscule amount of interpretation.
http://paizo.com/prd/skills/knowledge.html states:
Check: Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions).You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. Many of the Knowledge skills have specific uses as noted on Table: Knowledge Skill DCs.
I role a 32 on my Arcana for the following creature:
http://paizo.com/PRD/additionalMonsters/golem.html
Glass Golem CR 8
XP 4,800
N Large construct
Init –1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +0
[u]Defense[/u]
AC 21, touch 8, flat-footed 21 (–1 Dex, +13 natural, –1 size)
hp 96 (12d10+30)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4
Defensive Abilities reflect spells; DR 5/adamantine; Immune magic, construct traits
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 slams +16 (2d8+5 plus bleed)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks bleed (1d8), dazzling brightness
Statistics
Str 20, Dex 9, Con —, Int —, Wis 11, Cha 1
Base Atk +12; CMB +18; CMD 27
Ecology
Environment any land
Organization solitary or gang (2–5)
Treasure none
Special Abilities
Dazzling Brightness (Ex) A glass golem in an area of bright light dazzles any creature within 30 feet that sees it for 1 round (Fortitude DC 16 negates). Once a creature makes its save against this ability, it is immune to that golem's brightness for 24 hours. The DC is Constitution-based.
Immune to Magic (Ex) A glass golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against a glass golem, as noted below.
• A shatter spell damages a glass golem as if it were a crystalline creature.
• A keen edge spell affects all of a glass golem's slam attacks as if they were slashing weapons.
• A magical attack that deals cold damage slows a glass golem (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds (no saving throw).
• A magical attack that deals fire damage ends any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A glass golem gets no saving throw against fire effects.
Reflect Spells (Ex) As a free action once every 1d4 rounds, a glass golem can align its internal structure to enhance its resistance to magic for 1 round. During this time, the golem reflects spells (even spells that function differently against the golem as described in its immune to magic ability) as if under the effect of a spell turning spell.
A glass golem is a sizable guardian constructed by a powerful caster, usually in the shape of an armored humanoid. They are more common in desert lands where quartz-based sand is readily available, or in urban centers where glassblowing is commonplace.
A typical glass golem is 10 feet tall and weighs 2,500 pounds.
Stained Glass Golems (+0 CR): Divine casters sometimes build glass golems that resemble the windowpanes commonly found in temples. Thin and agile, these colorful beings often act as spies, wielding powers of stealth that their other counterparts do not possess. A stained glass golem has a +8 racial bonus on Stealth checks.
ConstructionA glass golem's body is made from 2,500 pounds of glass mixed with special salts and rare minerals worth 1,000 gp.
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I ask "1. What are it's Special Abilities? 2. What are it's Defensive Abilities? 3. What are it's Special Attacks?"
What should I be told?
What I Was Told angered me to no end.
1. The GM is only obligated to give you the name of the ability (sorry, but "Immunity to Magic" IS NOT the effect), if you want to know what that ability does, look it up.
a. I don't have a bestiary or access to the internet in the game store and their were no books on the shelves to reference. b. I have already bought most of what I consider Player Tools:Core Rule Book, Advance Players Guide, Inner Sea World Guide, Character Folio, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment, Society Primer, Society Field Guide, and more Player Companions than you can shake a stick at.
I consider the Bestiaries to be for GM Tool and Summoners or those with summoning/conjuring spells. Not only that but in a previous combat with two large Air Elementals, a player offered to look up the Whirlwind ability for the GM and he specifically said "No, because I know you'll look up the creature and I don't want you doing that!"
By the end of the night, with only one role being less than 30 (it was a 29), everything I was told I could see for myself or it had already exhibited during the fight, BEFORE I rolled with nothing of it's special attacks or defense.
What is the official ruling on how to phrase questions to know a creatures special abilities and do you get all of them if you say "Special Defense" or "Offense"? Is the 1/5 higher per category and is it wasted if you ask for the next special defense and it doesn't have one or can you use the question for another ability?
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You've quoted the official rule. Success allows you to identify the monster and get a useful bit of information, with more useful bits of information at higher levels of success. Nothing in writing allows you to ask for what you want (though it's a common GM practice), to get full rules text, or to discount information that you already know from fighting the creature.
"It has immunity to magic" is a useful piece of information and I think your GM was generous to allow you to read the Bestiary during combat to get the specific text of the ability.
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I wish it was better quantified as to what you would get, too.
Is it even defined somewhere if a creature is common, 'general', or 'particularly rare'? For example, is a skeleton or a zombie common (DC 5+) or general (DC 10+)? (It is also odd that the one example for 'particularly rare' is for a creature that is, if fact, unique.)
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I must admit that I am guilty of not giving all the in's and outs, like construct, undead ect... I try to be helpful but sometimes dont have all the info in front of me at the time so have them look it up.
Surprised that no one had a book you could look it up though.
I always let players ask for what category they want. For example I have an evoker that focuses on immunities and resists, where fighter types would focus on DR. So I figure players would do it the same.
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No there isn't. I feel your pain.
When I GM, I will usually offer to give them "useful information" or I will let them ask me. If they don't have specific questions, I'll offer what I think will be most helpful for the party (DR or special attacks if they're melee focused, SR or immunities if they're cast-y, etc.).
Things I'll let them ask me:
Traits/Sub-types
Defenses (SR, Immunities, Resist)
Special attacks
Hit Dice
Best Save or Worst Save
I've found that how GMs deal with knowledge checks is a pretty good indicator of how antagonistic they are versus their players. Not that I'm expecting them to hand over the stat block. But if they're jealously guarding the information, maybe they should recalibrate their goals:
GM: "You get one question."
Player: "Okay, is it immune to fire?"
GM: "Nope."
Player: "I cast Fireball. 26 damage, DC17 to save for half."
GM: "It doesn't seem to take any damage."
Player: "You said it didn't have any immunities!"
GM: "It doesn't. But it does have Fire Resist 30."
Ugh.
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There are not hard rules on Knowledge Checks, and to be honest, I'm ok with that.
I haven't yet encountered the examples redward and others posted above yet. Usually locally all the GMs let us ask questions, based on the check, as most GMs seem to do. Most GMs will allow you to ask for any line in a monster stat block (the bolded words).
I myself will use this system, but ask if they'd like me to pick something for them instead of them picking. I'll try to make it tailored to something THEIR character would like to know.
If they are a sword and board fighter, I probably won't give them that they are resistant to fire. Why would a fighter have cared in their time studying monsters or hearing about other adventurers' tales (what Knowledges represent) about if they are resistant to what elements? For them I'd usually pick DR or special attacks.
If I have a flames oracle and they ask "would they be affected normally by fire?" I'd happily tell them yes or no based on if they had either resistances or immunities.
If they ask something too generic like "any special defenses" and they don't have any, I'll also pick something along the same lines like DR or resistances or immunities.
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When I GM, I will usually offer to give them "useful information" or I will let them ask me.
I usually do the same, or at least try to remember to do the same. Something to the effect of, "Do you want to ask me questions, or do you want me to give you information that I think would be most beneficial?"
When they let me do it, I usually give them more bits information than they deserve, but I also usually try to hold at least one (uncommon) trick back.
Also, don't forget that the base is 10+CR, but it's up to the GM to decide of it's a common or rare or extremely rare type of creature. That gives quite a bit of leeway and will cause table variation.
For your example, I would probably give the following things.
"This construct is made completely of solid glass, granting it totally immunity to any magic that allows spell resistance. Although glass is not a crystalline structured solid, it is similarly affected by shatter and occasionally it can align its base structure to reflect magic against targeted spells just like spell turning." In areas of intense light, the reflection off this golem can be dazzling to any unfortunate enough to catch its glance."
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I will say that I have taken to going away from the "Asking questions" sort of thing, to aiming what I tell players what their characters would want to know (and would have likely studied). This allows for multiple characters to benefit from rolls, and all that.
So, for your example above. If a fighter had learned some information, he might learn that the Glass Golem is resistant to damage, but that Adamantine weapons will tend to affect them fully. With the roll of 32, he would also know that the Glass Golem's attacks will cause bleeding, and perhaps their "dazzling brightness" abilities.
A wizard, or other primary spellcaster, would learn that they have Magic Immunity (and what that means), and the effects of Shatter, cold and fire magics.
This might take me a couple of extra seconds to come up with stuff, but has seemed to have been well received locally.
You know, it dawns on me that Angelo Gaius, my wizard, only attempted a single creature knowledge roll Saturday... and on that, he rolled miserably (being sickened as he was didn't help). Have to remember to ask for those rolls!, since he is the Master of All Things Arcane!
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GMs should err on the side of giving too much information rather than too little. Same with working out which DC to use.
The exception to that would be if it were a premade campaign (ie. not PFS), or the scenario specifically stated the DC's or other applicable rules for it.
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Say I have a character with a high bonus (15+) to knowledge: the planes and I fight a devil. Do I A) have spend a question to ask if the creature is a devil, and B) if I know it is a devil, is it reasonable for me to know of the standard devil resistances, or do I need to spend a question to get them?
During the last days of 3.5, they started adding sidebars to all the monster entries in the last Monster Manual volumes they published which told you exactly what info a given Knowledge check would reveal. That was extremely helpful, and I wish it had become standard practice. In the meantime, some bright soul has created the following product: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/63058/Monster-Knowledge-Cards-Volumes -1---4-%5BBUNDLE%5D?term=monster+knowledge
Tried to make a simple link, but for some reason the code isn't working for me :(
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The following is paraphrased from an actual game I was in. I was the rogue.
Player: "Okay, I made my knowledge check. What exactly is this thing and what do I need to know about?"
GM: "It's a frost worm. It does cold damage, has a breath attack, makes a freakish sound that messes with people's heads, and it thrashes around a bit when it dies."
Player: "Okay, got it."
*fight commences and players kill the worm*
*nuclear explosion of 20d6 of damage rains upon the party and killing them all except the rogue who had evasion and took no damage*
Players: "What the hell was that?!?!"
GM: "That was its death throes. I told you it thrashed around a bit when it died."
Players: "Wait, what? That wasn't thrashing around. It exploded and killed the entire party."
Rogue: "Not the entire party..."
Players stare daggers at the rogue.
The rogue retired by selling the party's equipment.
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This ticked the entire party off because the GM glossed over the details when giving out the knowledge check info. I'd really love a ruling on how this is handled, because that killed our night of gaming.
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That would be the FIRST piece of info I gave the PCs if they asked for special facts. Frost worms are NOTORIOUS for exploding when they die. I do my best to not encourage 100% death machine PCs by making knowledges very powerful. Because knowledge is power. But too many GMs are getting their jollies by being "mysterious". Feth that.
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Again, this isn't RAW, but where the players don't ask for specific information, in the frost worm example, the GM should ask themselves "if this PC had heard something about this monster, what is the most likely/important piece of information they'd hear about?"
Something that has probably killed a lot of people, or prevented people killing it would make the top of that list.
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Say I have a character with a high bonus (15+) to knowledge: the planes and I fight a devil. Do I A) have spend a question to ask if the creature is a devil, and B) if I know it is a devil, is it reasonable for me to know of the standard devil resistances, or do I need to spend a question to get them?
If you succeed on the knowledge check, you should really automatically get to know (A) what the creature is (and probably its type or subtype).
Opinions will probably differ on (B), but I believe things like ooze traits, construct traits, undead traits, elemental traits etc should be common knowledge (and free game to look up or have read out by the GM what those traits are; it's a Bestiary thing).
To learn that the creature has those traits probably shouldn't "cost" a piece of information, it's obvious just from seeing that it's an ooze/undead/whatever.
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I personally let player's prioritize the information they want and go from there. It's just a game, and it's meant to be fun, so it's no sweat off my back running. If you are a fire chucking sorcerer who has studied monsters, of course you'd have been likely to study whether they were resistant or immune to fire.
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Well at the same extent characters are going to study, learn, and remeber what is relevant for their build type.
My admixutre blaster will wnat to know what element is most effective.
My save or suck caster will what to know their weak save.
Because of this I will let the PC ask information and I try to word it as in game as possible without too much mechanics if I can help it.
Now a garbage DM is a garbage DM. If they rule knowledge checks give you worthless info. They will find another way to be garbage if they can not do that.
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My save or suck caster will what to know their weak save.
FWIW, this should come automatically with knowing the creature type. If they're a creature whose saves can vary (like humanoid), it'd be impossible to get this knowledge unless they're classed, and then you'd need a way to identify the class.
This has me thinking...
I don't think I've ever seen a PC ask to make a knowledge check versus a standard race opponent.
More brain thinking...
Say it's a half-fiend (human) oracle of fire. They make a knowledge planes check to get the half-fiend stuff, and religion for some oracle stuff? But what can you really get?
They could know all the fixed things about the half-fiend, but what the things that scale with HD? Describe the things a half-fiend could have?
What about the oracle stuff? Maybe they can somehow identify it's an oracle of fire? what then? "Hey, here's a list of all the revelations they could possibly take. And there's X number of curses they might have." I guess with the curses there can be obvious indicators, but not for all of them...
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Kyle.
The profession skills allow people to make profession checks as per knowledge checks in their field.
I have never actually seen anyone do it, but I would let someone with the "Profession (Soldier)" or similar make a Profession check if they saw a NPC fighting to get an approximate idea of how good a fighter they are. Something like "He is about as good as you (BAB ~ -2 to +2 of the character) Weaker than you (-3 to -6) much weaker (-7 to -10) etc."
I'm pretty weak on the Aura rules, but someone with detect Aura and the appropriate religeon Knowledge could maybe be able to get highest level skill castable? I'll have to think on that.
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There are not hard rules on Knowledge Checks, and to be honest, I'm ok with that.
I haven't yet encountered the examples redward and others posted above yet. Usually locally all the GMs let us ask questions, based on the check, as most GMs seem to do. Most GMs will allow you to ask for any line in a monster stat block (the bolded words).
I myself will use this system, but ask if they'd like me to pick something for them instead of them picking. I'll try to make it tailored to something THEIR character would like to know.
If they are a sword and board fighter, I probably won't give them that they are resistant to fire. Why would a fighter have cared in their time studying monsters or hearing about other adventurers' tales (what Knowledges represent) about if they are resistant to what elements? For them I'd usually pick DR or special attacks.
If I have a flames oracle and they ask "would they be affected normally by fire?" I'd happily tell them yes or no based on if they had either resistances or immunities.
If they ask something too generic like "any special defenses" and they don't have any, I'll also pick something along the same lines like DR or resistances or immunities.
Yeah, tailored to their character. My Lore Warden has all the knowledge skills at 10+, including Arcana, and I was told because she's a fighter type that she wouldn't know anything about spells.
I've gotten every PP affiliation that give a bonus to every knowledge skill, she's bought all the available pathfinder field guides that give a bonus to various knowledge's, and as a player, I've bought the corresponding books associated with those guides and PP expenditures.
But because my Lore Warden is a Fighter Type, she wouldn't know anything about Sorcerers or Spells. OR ANYTHING that the GM hadn't already shown in combat for that matter. So yeah, I have a bad view on "tailoring" atm.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I think the problem with tailoring is that it implys that
A) the character is only interested in information that they can use personally, not information that might be important to their teammates. (Which seems pretty contrary to the Lore Warden idea)
B) the character has only one shtick. A sword and board fighter might have some purchased alchemy for backup for dealing with DR. When you don't tell them it has Fire resist, but does have DR, you are causing them to waste an Alchemy.
But because my Lore Warden is a Fighter Type, she wouldn't know anything about Sorcerers or Spells. OR ANYTHING that the GM hadn't already shown in combat for that matter. So yeah, I have a bad view on "tailoring" atm.
Shouldn't those be spellcraft? Arcana is stuff like constructs, dragons, and magical beasts.
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FLite, that may be the case, in general... however, the way memory works you are more likely to remember things that are important to you than the general population.
So, for example, Angelo Gaius, my wizard, who has pretty much all the knowledges at 12-15+, would care first about things that would make it difficult for him to affect a target (spell immunities, spell resistance, etc), but cares quite a bit less about DR or armor class. Now, if he rolls really well, he'll probably get that as well. If a GM wants him to ask questions, he'll start with stuff that will affect him first.
On the other hand, Magnus Landros, my wizard, will want to know if the critter is typically evil... and then how hard to hit they are. But, most importantly, are they evil.
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During the last days of 3.5, they started adding sidebars to all the monster entries in the last Monster Manual volumes they published which told you exactly what info a given Knowledge check would reveal. That was extremely helpful, and I wish it had become standard practice. In the meantime, some bright soul has created the following product: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/63058/Monster-Knowledge-Cards-Volumes -1---4-%5BBUNDLE%5D?term=monster+knowledge
Tried to make a simple link, but for some reason the code isn't working for me :(
OMG! I HEART DRIVE THRU!!! It's where I got my copy of Tales From the Floating Vagabound! A Most Amusing Game <33
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I think the problem with tailoring is that it implys that
A) the character is only interested in information that they can use personally, not information that might be important to their teammates. (Which seems pretty contrary to the Lore Warden idea)
B) the character has only one shtick. A sword and board fighter might have some purchased alchemy for backup for dealing with DR. When you don't tell them it has Fire resist, but does have DR, you are causing them to waste an Alchemy.
Shouldn't those be spellcraft? Arcana is stuff like constructs, dragons, and magical beasts.
But because my Lore Warden is a Fighter Type, she wouldn't know anything about Sorcerers or Spells. OR ANYTHING that the GM hadn't already shown in combat for that matter. So yeah, I have a bad view on "tailoring" atm.
Sorry, yes, she have Spellcraft as well but was still in Knowledge Rant mode.
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FLite, that may be the case, in general... however, the way memory works you are more likely to remember things that are important to you than the general population.
So, for example, Angelo Gaius, my wizard, who has pretty much all the knowledges at 12-15+, would care first about things that would make it difficult for him to affect a target (spell immunities, spell resistance, etc), but cares quite a bit less about DR or armor class. Now, if he rolls really well, he'll probably get that as well. If a GM wants him to ask questions, he'll start with stuff that will affect him first.
On the other hand, Magnus Landros, my wizard, will want to know if the critter is typically evil... and then how hard to hit they are. But, most importantly, are they evil.
I think Magnus Landros may be a pali and not a wiz o.o
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I let the players prioritize what they want to know (Special defenses, attacks, etc) and then I try to give them the most relevant piece of info that I would find helpful if I were in their place. I tend to be more on the generous side because I'd rather see the players pull together tactically using that info to succeed rather than being stingy just to pull one over on them.
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I usually tell the players info in this order:
If Knowledge check is equal to it's DC, they receive general monster description, traits and subtype. I usually hint players that even tho they rolled minimum for successful Knowledge check, that general description can reveal quite a bit information.
If Knowledge check exceeded it's DC by 5 or more, they receive a single information about randomly taken monster ability. I usually select all monster special attacks, defenses, special abilities and senses into this and anything else that might be relevant.
If Knowledge check exceeded it's DC by 10 or more, they receive two informations. Etc., etc.
What I do believe is that players can't control what they remembered. That's why I roll randomly for every information. The more Knowledge checks from different players, the more they know. On the other hand, everything that I tell them, I assume that every character knows this from that point on.
Adam
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Sorry, yes, she have Spellcraft as well but was still in Knowledge Rant mode.I think the problem with tailoring is that it implys that
A) the character is only interested in information that they can use personally, not information that might be important to their teammates. (Which seems pretty contrary to the Lore Warden idea)
B) the character has only one shtick. A sword and board fighter might have some purchased alchemy for backup for dealing with DR. When you don't tell them it has Fire resist, but does have DR, you are causing them to waste an Alchemy.
Shouldn't those be spellcraft? Arcana is stuff like constructs, dragons, and magical beasts.
But because my Lore Warden is a Fighter Type, she wouldn't know anything about Sorcerers or Spells. OR ANYTHING that the GM hadn't already shown in combat for that matter. So yeah, I have a bad view on "tailoring" atm.
Edit: http://paizo.com/prd/skills/knowledge.html
Identify auras while using detect magic Arcana 15 + spell level
Identify a spell effect that is in place Arcana 20 + spell level
Identify materials manufactured by magic Arcana 20 + spell level
Identify a spell that just targeted you Arcana 25 + spell level
Identify the spells cast using a specific material component Arcana 20
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Arcane vendetta
Prerequisites: SpellCraft 1 rank
Benefit: You deal +2 damage with weapon attacks made against any target you have witnessed casting an arcane spell (not using a spell-like ability) in the last 5 rounds. You must have successfully identified the spell with a Spellcraft check to know without a doubt that the spell is arcane.
So this feat is only good for weapon using spellcasters?
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-sighs- What super ticks me off the most about all this?
I actually pitched a fit at the table... with logic mind you, but also with a hard headedness that I try not to show.
Why? Because I could not believe that there was not more structure to something as common and frequently used as knowledge skill checks. I basically called BS on their wishy washy answers because it made no logical sense to state " In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more."and have no listing for CommonorGeneralorRareMonsters; as well as no structured implementation explaining what a player is specifically supposed to ask a GM for specific abilities. At the time that seemed LUDICROUS because it's to common an occurrence for such a gaping hole in the game system. To many things indicated that there is something structured.
-sighs- I owe them both an apology because I didn't believe what turns out to be the truth of the matter... this part of the game is exceptionally lacking. -sighs- Well. She does decent amount of damage but not nearly as well as theirs and never will. Her main schtick was Knowledge Skills -shrugs- Got her to 11th level and now she just can't be of any use to a party. -hangs head and retires- I'll just GM from now on. I'm tired of the repeated lack of rp at society games that end 2 hrs before they're supposed to then being told that ppl don't rp or don't describe because of the time limit. I'll just give what I seek because it's the only way I'll get a bit of it back.
Thank you, the one person who checked this topic to be a frequently asked FAQ thingy. Goodnight.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Arcane vendetta
Prerequisites: SpellCraft 1 rankBenefit: You deal +2 damage with weapon attacks made against any target you have witnessed casting an arcane spell (not using a spell-like ability) in the last 5 rounds. You must have successfully identified the spell with a Spellcraft check to know without a doubt that the spell is arcane.
So this feat is only good for weapon using spellcasters?
why would it only be good for spellcasters?
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-sighs- What super ticks me off the most about all this?
I actually pitched a fit at the table... with logic mind you, but also with a hard headedness that I try not to show.
Why? Because I could not believe that there was not more structure to something as common and frequently used as knowledge skill checks. I basically called BS on their wishy washy answers because it made no logical sense to state " In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more."and have no listing for CommonorGeneralorRareMonsters; as well as no structured implementation explaining what a player is specifically supposed to ask a GM for specific abilities. At the time that seemed LUDICROUS because it's to common an occurrence for such a gaping hole in the game system. To many things indicated that there is something structured.
-sighs- I owe them both an apology because I didn't believe what turns out to be the truth of the matter... this part of the game is exceptionally lacking. -sighs- Well. She does decent amount of damage but not nearly as well as theirs and never will. Her main schtick was Knowledge Skills -shrugs- Got her to 11th level and now she just can't be of any use to a party. -hangs head and retires- I'll just GM from now on. I'm tired of the repeated lack of rp at society games that end 2 hrs before they're supposed to then being told that ppl don't rp or don't describe because of the time limit. I'll just give what I seek because it's the only way I'll get a bit of it back.
Thank you, the one person who checked this topic to be a frequently asked FAQ thingy. Goodnight.
One thing to remember now that you're going to be a GM and not play. There are a lot of things that are open to GM interpretation, and now that you're GMing, be prepared with information so that when one of your players challenges you on something you can answer with accurate information.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side.....
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The grass is as green as you make it. Unfortunately I can't make it any greener when I am limited to two peoples interpretation who always back each other up no matter how wrong/misinformed.
And since I don't like it, I'm done bishing about it and will take up the slack.
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What I do believe is that players can't control what they remembered.
Totally disagree. When someone studies a subject, the parts that interest them the most are the parts that will stick in their mind the best.
When my sorceress spends time reading books in the library of the Grand Lodge (otherwise known as putting a skill rank in knowledge (planes) or knowledge (arcana)), the one thing that's most likely to stand out to her about any monster is how well her specific spells will work on it. Since she has Scorching Ray, that means fire. Since she's never in melee, she's unlikely to care about their melee attacks or tough armor.
If I was playing that PC at your table, rolled 5 higher than the target number to id a monster, and you didn't let me ask "How will fire affect it?" as my first question, I'd be very annoyed.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Hmm. I think what I am going to do is split the difference:
I'll give a set version of info for each DC you make, up to the last one, and leave that last one for the player to ask a specific question. (If they don't have a specific question, I'll give them the last piece of prepared info (if there is any left.)
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I know this isn't official, but I give a ton of information on the identification. If you know what it is, you know its subtype and everything that goes along with that. From there, every 5+ gives you what I feel is most relevant to not dying to said beastie. If the spellcaster has a specific shtick like fire, I'll cover energy resistances and immunities first. Yes, I'll give all of them, and I'll even throw in spell resistance! :)
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What I do believe is that players can't control what they remembered.Totally disagree. When someone studies a subject, the parts that interest them the most are the parts that will stick in their mind the best.
When my sorceress spends time reading books in the library of the Grand Lodge (otherwise known as putting a skill rank in knowledge (planes) or knowledge (arcana)), the one thing that's most likely to stand out to her about any monster is how well her specific spells will work on it. Since she has Scorching Ray, that means fire. Since she's never in melee, she's unlikely to care about their melee attacks or tough armor.
If I was playing that PC at your table, rolled 5 higher than the target number to id a monster, and you didn't let me ask "How will fire affect it?" as my first question, I'd be very annoyed.
I once saw a creature that looked like a weird zombie. I rolled like a 30 knowledge religion and got 3 pieces of info.
I got the name, which was extremely weird and had zombie in it.I then asked what made you this different from a normal zombie.
GM said I cannot ask that.
I had to pick the things I asked for.
I said special attacks
I got slam attack.
I asked resists.
I got slashing
I asked for immunities.
I got undead traits.
I then said, well isn't that just like a normal zombie.
The GM said that he already told me it wasn't a normal zombie and I simply didn't remember why it was different.
With my 30 knowledge religion.
Knowledges are commonly useless in my experience in pathfinder.
Turned out the thing that made it special was something like level drain and exploding.
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That sounds like quite the antagonistic GM. A Knowledge of 30 should be pretty good for knowing what you're up against.Knowledges are commonly useless in my experience in pathfinder.
Turned out the thing that made it special was something like level drain and exploding.
I agree with Adam. I regularly train in knowledges with even my 2 skill classes, just to be able to make that roll. In my area, useful information is the norm for a good knowledge check.
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I once saw a creature that looked like a weird zombie. I rolled like a 30 knowledge religion and got 3 pieces of info.
I got the name, which was extremely weird and had zombie in it.
I then asked what made you this different from a normal zombie.
GM said I cannot ask that.
I had to pick the things I asked for.
I said special attacks
I got slam attack.
I asked resists.
I got slashing
I asked for immunities.
I got undead traits.I then said, well isn't that just like a normal zombie.
The GM said that he already told me it wasn't a normal zombie and I simply didn't remember why it was different.
With my 30 knowledge religion.Knowledges are commonly useless in my experience in pathfinder.
Turned out the thing that made it special was something like level drain and exploding.
The one thing bad DMs are good for is showing you what is not fun. Now you know what not to do. If a GM wants to cheat a player with something so trivial then I would not trust them elsewhere.
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The one thing bad DMs are good for is showing you what is not fun. Now you know what not to do. If a GM wants to cheat a player with something so trivial then I would not trust them elsewhere.I once saw a creature that looked like a weird zombie. I rolled like a 30 knowledge religion and got 3 pieces of info.
I got the name, which was extremely weird and had zombie in it.
I then asked what made you this different from a normal zombie.
GM said I cannot ask that.
I had to pick the things I asked for.
I said special attacks
I got slam attack.
I asked resists.
I got slashing
I asked for immunities.
I got undead traits.I then said, well isn't that just like a normal zombie.
The GM said that he already told me it wasn't a normal zombie and I simply didn't remember why it was different.
With my 30 knowledge religion.Knowledges are commonly useless in my experience in pathfinder.
Turned out the thing that made it special was something like level drain and exploding.
This, but ^2.
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and have no listing for CommonorGeneralorRareMonsters;
You're a genius!
Bring a copy of the 1st edition (or 2nd) Monster Manual! It has rarities listed in it!
For instance (from Monster Manual 2), the Tarrasque is "Very Rare", so probably DC 20+. Also very rare: Orcus.