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Looking at the "Save the Gnome!" encounter
** spoiler omitted **
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This was quite fun to run, even though my group had a relatively easy time of it. 4 players, all 10-11, all with great fort saves and a character with +18 Survival. Even with them resting once they still only lost one Elf. (Took a bit over 12 hours). The Survival DC's seemed a bit low considering the locale. How would one adjudicate spells like Find The Path and Windwalk for this scenario? Since we couldn't work out Windwalk, they agreed not to use it. Considering that level 11 clerics have access to it, it seems pertinent considering that you move at 60 mph...
For Find The Path, I ruled that it showed the quickest path to their destination, but didn't 'eliminate' the need for checks.
The last combat was a bugger to set up, though! The leeches did nothing as everyone was flying at that point.
Would definitely like to run it again, especially for a low fort/survival group <evil grin>.
Oh, and one last thing; one of my players (whose family is full of archaeologists and professors), implored me to inform the developers that cold iron cannot be made into ingots, which defies the entire purpose of forging it at a lower temperature.
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This was quite fun to run, even though my group had a relatively easy time of it. 4 players, all 10-11, all with great fort saves and a character with +18 Survival. Even with them resting once they still only lost one Elf. (Took a bit over 12 hours). The Survival DC's seemed a bit low considering the locale. How would one adjudicate spells like Find The Path and Windwalk for this scenario? Since we couldn't work out Windwalk, they agreed not to use it. Considering that level 11 clerics have access to it, it seems pertinent considering that you move at 60 mph...
For Find The Path, I ruled that it showed the quickest path to their destination, but didn't 'eliminate' the need for checks.The last combat was a bugger to set up, though! The leeches did nothing as everyone was flying at that point.
Would definitely like to run it again, especially for a low fort/survival group <evil grin>.
Yeah, they had a good set of skills and made good use of magic abilities. Good for them.
Oh, and one last thing; one of my players (whose family is full of archaeologists and professors), implored me to inform the developers that cold iron cannot be made into ingots, which defies the entire purpose of forging it at a lower temperature.
Now you're speaking to my academic background. First off, yes, ingot as a bar or ox-hide cast would imply complete melting, which would implicitly undo one of cold iron's unique qualities. What the PCs more likely find in the abandoned elven settlement are blooms resulting from the smelting process, at least roughly shaped to reduce the porosity and increase the density for later use. Depending on its intended use, I can also imagine it being drawn into billets for later smithing.
It's also possible that cold iron metal occurs naturally as opposed to as an ore, much like telluric iron. Natural copper (usually from Michigan) or meteoric iron (in my experience most commonly attributed to the Thule people of far northern North Amercia, though I'm certain it happens in many other places) may be more familiar to most readers, but the idea is largely the same; a native metal needs no smelting process and would ready for smithing soon after extraction.
Now then, I'd imagine that given the little information we have on cold iron, it's more likely to be such a native metal. At least in my experience in copper smelting--more practice with that than iron smelting--the smelting temperature and time spent in a reducing atmosphere for proper metal formation and removal of impurities is fairly close to that which is required for melting; in fact, the more efficient smelts that result in a more consolidated bloom instead of just the formation of slag-isolated beads effectively require both slag and metal product to be molten (granted, a lot of these get hot enough to form an ingot anyway). If cold iron needed to be smelted, it would probably lose some degree of its fantanstic property. After taking a moment to double-check some numbers, it looks like iron's smelting and melting temperatures are about 300 degree C seperate--not an insubstantial difference. Even so, I'd hazard that cold iron makes more sense as a natural metal.
So in a rambling explanation, there we have it. Ingot is likely the incorrect word there (in favor of worked bloom or billet), but without knowing more about any exceptional chemical and physical properties of a fantasy metal, perhaps we could all be wrong.
Good to hear from some archaeologists.
Edit: Corrected one of my terms (native metal, John, not naturally formed metal)
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I'd thought about the potential for the party to use flying magic to bypass large chunks of the scenario. I don't know if you'd actually consider it a problem, but the windwalk mention made me think on it more than I probably should have. Best to be prepared and all that. I came up with 3 possibe solutions.
1. Ask them not to use it, since the sky sort of falls out of the purview of the adventure.
2. The tanglebriar is obviously choking enough to limit light. Maybe it's too thick to follow the map exactly unless they land now and then to make sure they're on course. This one allows them to use their skills to bypass the time limit and forest hazards somewhat (good, imo, for use of player resources) and also lets you still have the encounters (also good, very flavorful encounters in this one. Kudos to Ryan.)
3. The sky is just choc full of demons. Probably a better choice for a non PFS homegame, but it may be a convenient excuse one of the elves could give the party for why doing flyovers is not viable? There is a big angry Vrock out there.
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Couple ways on how I plan to handle flying.
The canopy is just too dense and thick to pass through, and flaying under the canopy doesn't grant any bonus besides increased speed. (I think this is covered in the scenario as such)
When they get to the spot where they can flay over, it is only for that spot. From then on the map/directions of the elves rely on landmarks only visible from within the ground. So flying would hurt them as they would get lost. If that still doesn't deter them, if the elf is with them have them mention that Treerazor patrols the skys on occasion and more since the Wardstones failed. If the elf is not there then have them see the a huge dragon like figure with a black oozing axe flaying above :D. That should keep them on the ground.
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An off-the cuff rhyme in the event Vinst needs to engage in pipe playing to begin combat or respond to combat being initiated. You could use suggestion as it is currently worded, or use fear, at your discretion...
You all look a bit worse for the wear,
Perchance did you fail to prepare?
Your skill is in question,
I've got a suggestion...
Just go wander the 'briar in fear!
or as he trends to the morbid...
You critters have such lovely skin,
Might I make some room to fit in?
A bit of a flay
Is just child's play...
Who first is my only question?
or insulting...
Buffoons, jokers, and clowns,
Your antics give me the frowns.
You're impressively pathetic
Is your confidence prosthetic?
I shall give you the incompetence crown!
That last one is a bit of a stretch, but more fodder and ideas for berating your players.
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Thanks for all the clarifications John!
For everyone else, monster stats are in the GM Shared Prep folder! This one was quite a doozy to compile. TWO TEMPLATES on the same creature! For shame, Ryan!
Then the Babaus MAYBE drink a potion of cat's grace. And then some pretty crazy 4-player adjustments.
PHEW!
Where is the shared prep folder? Would love to save some time building out those templated monsters!
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Where is the shared prep folder? Would love to save some time building out those templated monsters!
It's a sticky in the GM boards.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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An off-the cuff rhyme in the event Vinst needs to engage in pipe playing to begin combat or respond to combat being initiated. You could use suggestion as it is currently worded, or use fear, at your discretion...
You all look a bit worse for the wear,
Perchance did you fail to prepare?
Your skill is in question,
I've got a suggestion...
Just go wander the 'briar in fear!or as he trends to the morbid...
You critters have such lovely skin,
Might I make some room to fit in?
A bit of a flay
Is just child's play...
Who first is my only question?or insulting...
Buffoons, jokers, and clowns,
Your antics give me the frowns.
You're impressively pathetic
Is your confidence prosthetic?
I shall give you the incompetence crown!That last one is a bit of a stretch, but more fodder and ideas for berating your players.
If any of my players make some bad rhymes, I think I'll just crib some lines from A. E. Housman:
"Oh, good Lord, the verse you make;
it gives a chap a belly-ache!
Pretty friendship 'tis to rhyme
your friend to death before his time!"
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So I totally said I was going to give a report and then didn't. Sorry for the lateness!
So it was kind of a mess from the start with 9 characters on the board at all times, one of which was invisible.
After finding out that their favour wasn't likely to happen, the party introduced the idea of doing something further to help their case. I allowed a Diplomacy check, and then went on with giving them the mission. Each player purchased one antiplague and antitoxin (ha, they thought this would take an hour). I had them arrange themselves in the teleportation room (the same size as the first encounter box), and then they were off to the first encounter.
The sorcerer wanted to stay with her familiar, and so she had her character delay until her familiar's turn. The other player that rolled higher than the centipede elected to delay for the haste buff that was coming from the summoner. The centipede then trampled them all. Its movement wasn't quite enough to get onto them and then out again, but I believe the rule is that he goes back to his last legal occupied space, or the nearest space that is open if its closer. I'm not sure I adjudicated that entirely properly, so if someone wants to correct me feel free!
The end result is everyone took a lot of damage, and was very worried about it happening the next round. Of course I didn't tell them it wouldn't happen the next round, because I was enjoying the panic. Special thanks also to the few that rolled in the very low thirties for their reflex save and STILL took full damage with a shocked expression on their face. :D
The next round featured one of the barbarians using his folio reroll to save on the centipede's poison, and me misreading the rangers tactics (I focus fired on the closest target rather than firing six arrows at six different targets). The wizard went down, but luckily did not die. The centipede went down to a combination of very lethal full attacks and an anemic fireball from the sorcerer, who was very pissed off that a bug should have fire resistance.
After the centipede went down, I allowed Diplomacy checks in initiative to keep the drama going, and after a 30 I had the elves calm down considerably (of course, they would have calmed down anyway!) Numerous charges of cure light wounds were spent to deal with the trample damage, including at least one that was entirely broken.
They got to the bramble patch, and decided that they didn't have anything that could fly them all over (all of their flight was short term, even the eidolon). They spotted the vrock, and debated shooting it down or sending the eidolon after it; it was deemed too risky by a few party members, who guessed correctly that it might just be a scout. Going around was deemed too slow, so they went through! Cue demon fever for half the group, and much raging against Tanglebriar. Only a few went entirely unscathed, and I have to give credit for making Survival a useful skill to have!
On the way out, the summoner pulled out a fully charged wand of mount and proceeded to make the time segment absolutely trivial. Not that I'm complaining, but man can 2 prestige points make for an easy time.
At this point, the barbarian player surprised me by suggesting that he wrestle the bear. Thinking quick: "That sounds like a delightful time, but I left all my oil in another tree!" No problem, as he pulls out some oil of grease. Cue ten rounds of no one making a CMB check ever, until finally the spell wears off. Once the barbarian pinned the bear, I was pretty happy with the way they had appeased him, and with the promise of coming back to wrestle him when they were done their chore, he gave them directions.
Total travel time: close to 9 hours. With 30 ft. movement speeds before the village and 40 ft. movement speeds after, as well as never botching a Survival check thanks to one of the PCs with ranks in survival, the PCs had a fairly easy time rescuing every captive. They talked the main guy down from his Calistrian revenge, and emerged from Tanglebriar quite victorious.
This is a very good scenario with a lot of great flavour to it. I love the way Tanglebriar is exhibited, and the encounters are all interesting. I think everyone had a good time, although a few were bored with the wilderness trek.
Things I didn't like:
- a few too many weak fortitude saves; I would have preferred fewer but with more relevant DCs
- too many moving parts in the final fight; a few tougher demons would have been easier for me than a lot of giant leeches + quasits; the leech swarms were excellent though!
Things I really liked:
- how deadly the first encounter is
- the wolf in sheep's clothing
- Vinst, for an encounter that can go combat, diplomacy, trickery, or creativity
Things I forgot:
- ranger tactics in the first encounter
- the odd fortitude save while travelling (slight retcon was needed)
- the stench aura on the hezrou
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Thanks Adam, that illustrated that a lot of what the scenario is intended to do comes through. I sympathize about the moving parts in the final encounter, but I think that is more a matter of personal preference. I will agree that the scenario calls for a lot of Fortitude saves. I'm not sure what a work around for that might be, other than maybe alternating between different effects that call for a mix of Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Great report!
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I played it over the past weekend
The Party
Cleric 11 Cayden Cailean
Alchemist 11
Sound striker Bard/ paladin / Hellknight 11
Monk / Sorcerer / Dragon Disciple 11
Roc Riding Sorcerer 11
Archer 7
Honestly I think we broke the scenario with party Comp and superior Tactics as well as initiative rolls it was fun ... but IMHO Vinst was the part we'll remember for a while
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I recently played this over the past weekend too! (seems like everyone is saying that currently)
We had a party of 5 in the 7-8 range. One dedicated fighter , One Optimised Magus, Sorcerer, Bard and myself playing a Wizard. So no dedicated healer and little melee.
In the first battle v the Centipede we all rolled quite well for init. I cast fly and pulled up and back, sorc attempted to hide in the bushes as elves started to rain arrows on us... then the Centipede moved and Both the Magus and Sorc dropped ( near Death Im to believe) via the trample. The Fighter bunked out having been reduced near unconciousness and it was essentialy left up to my wizard and the Bard to sort this situation out.. I used burning arc mainly as well as a Dragons Breath. The bard kept backing off (the bard is a street performer which I dont know much about.
After patching up relations with the Elves and finding out how little help they might be, we decided to press on to find their friends. I had probably the best survival.. still being a BLoatmage we were not moving fast.
With the Sheep in Wolves clothing encounter, we never found out what it was, although the Fighter was indeed attacked by a tentacle. It died quite quickly due to well placed fireballs. The babaus died in combo to the Magus and Fighter.
We managed to find the ingots and other items with pretty good perception checks.
It appears we missed out on the optional, our next encounter was with some strange.. Satyr. It seemed to like a dirty joke and one of our players , the magus wanted us to move on as soon as possible as the Satyr wasnt going to help us.. just ask us for stories.
The bloatmage (me) was tired from walking and decided to share a bottle of wine with the Satyr. Stories were exchanged and the street performer got to perform.
The final encounter with the Hezrou was interesting. The quasits popped up in round 3 and started to cut the chrysalis loose into the water as the Hezrou itself was having a lot of difficulty hitting the Magus. The bloatmage was being strangely attached by a Leech swarm!. I loved that, he was torn between wanting to capture them for use later and killing them before they drained too much of his valuable blood!. In the end some intesified Burning hands did the trick and the Hezrou after being pummeled by the Enlarged Fighter fled. We managed to save all but one of the changing elves including their leader but had to settle for a Demon Deer being unleashed on Golarion.
We all explained how naughty the elven general had been by basically cutting the band loose so we later found out some.. things had gone down.
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Ran this at a con over the weekend, and had a player break it worse than a druid.
Now, I've GM'd for this player's character before, and I'm sorry to say, this character is frequently useless, and only sometimes good to have along. So when she totally broke the scenario, she was giddy with satisfaction at having her character finally be the Hero.
Bones Oracle. Once they'd survived the Titan 'Pede, now the party had a colossal 12HD 30' reach pet immune to poison and disease with 60' move and an ungodly bite attack and AC. How do you think the rest of the scenario went? Forced them to make some ride checks here and there, but otherwise... arrived at the Hezrou in about 5 hours.
Helped we had a Cleric of Desna that had Aura of Freedom and cast some sort of mass water walking for the bog.
Amazing. I love it.
I hope the rest of the party was appreciative and not disappointed. I might have also ruled that the Vrock sees that a mile away no matter what.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Played this yesterday at 10-11. Highlights:
• My cleric plane shifted the centipede to the Abyss to go stomp some demons. Welcome to the 5th Mendevian Crusade, and thanks for volunteering! ;) More seriously, had that not worked... Well, we'd have been in bad shape.
• We had base speeds of 20, 20, 20, 20, 30, 50. (Three halflings, a dwarf, my tiefling, and a monk.) One of the halflings was a druid who wildshaped into a huge mastodon to carry the other three "slow-bies", so our slowest PC (the mastodon) had a move speed of 40ft. Cut us down to about 1/3 of the Fort saves we'd have been making at 20ft. Yay wildshape! Even if the druid had done nothing else the whole scenario, she'd still have been worth it. :D
• Gunslinger got dominated and ordered to kill me. I was already down to single-digit HP. Add this to the list of reasons that all my casters have pilfering hand. Sure, his backup AoE gun still dropped me to negatives, but with his regular one I'd have been swiss cheese.
• All friendlies saved! Hooray!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I ran a table at the 10-11 subtier at CharCon. It was made up of:
Level 10 buffing Bloatmage
Level 10 Cleric of Shelyn
Level 9 Inquisitor
Level 8 Shadowcaster
Level 7 Amiri
Against the Centipede, the Bloatmage managed to beat it in initiative, and blocked it from trampling with a Wall of Force. It bit an elf in the first round instead, then squeezed between the Wall and the rock to trample, almost killing the Shadowcaster. When the archers opened fire, the Cleric dropped a dome of Holy Ice to seal them off. From there, it was a slugfest.
Against the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, the Inquisitor got grappled, but managed to make the Fort save to keep from getting implanted. An illusion kept a particularly gullible Babau occupied while Amiri and the Inquisitor did their thing.
The Cleric crushed the Diplomacy check with Vinzt, so that was little more than a speedbump.
In the final fight, the Bloatmage (who had previously identified what a Hezrou could do), prepared a counterspell, and countered the opening Blasphemy (although I later discovered that doesn't work against SLAs). The hezrou nearly killed Amiri with a full-attack, and did some damage to other people when she ran. But finally, after three tries, the Bloatmage succeeded with his Persistent Baleful Polymorph, and turned the hezrou into a bunny rabbit. The fluffy bunny rabit still got off an Unholy Blight before it was reduced to a bloody smear by the Cleric, but didn't manage to kill anyone.
Played this yesterday and our party didn’t do so well as some others. Really like some of the creative solutions with the ‘pede mentioned here!
There were four of us going in (Ranger 10, Rogue 10, Evoker Wizard 9 and 7 Ranger). With the average of our party, it worked out for 7-8 subtier. Should be fine, right?
That centipede was devastating, even at 7-8. We were trampled on surprise, beat us on initiative (my second attack from it) and then killed me when I tried to Acrobatics away, failed and therefore provoked. It was either that or receive (probable) full attacks from it.
Fortunately everyone else got away from it, was able to counter and kill it. But all the elves died, and being down to three party members, decided to head back home.
I’m not sure now if it was on the surprise round. I do know it acted before all of us on the trample. It basically busted out of the ground and trampled.
Yes, I know. I just didn’t have a lot of options at that point. I thought about going full defense, but I had figured one of it’s (probably) many attacks would get through. I was only at 12 HP at that moment, all it took was one to hit.
I’m actually surprised, I thought it would get more attacks than one. Well, made the wrong call, should have gone full defense.
I made a Knowledge check, but only gained one piece of information, it wasn’t how many attacks it has.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I’m actually surprised, I thought it would get more attacks than one. Well, made the wrong call, should have gone full defense.
I made a Knowledge check, but only gained one piece of information, it wasn’t how many attacks it has.
Player: "I got a XX on my Knowledge (huge-ass monstrosities) check. What do I know?"
GM: "You know that now would be a good time to make peace with your gods."
Heh Yeah, exactly. :)
But dying is part of the game. I’ve had a good run with him (in no deaths) until now. And as I said, I had plenty of prestige and gold to bring him back.
I think the biggest disappointment I have is not being able to play this one again. It felt like a wasted scenario as I died in the very first combat and really didn’t get to experience the scenario at all.
Yes, I know you can replay scenarios with GM stars, but don’t have any right now and not sure when I’ll start GMing.
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The centipede then trampled them all. Its movement wasn't quite enough to get onto them and then out again, but I believe the rule is that he goes back to his last legal occupied space, or the nearest space that is open if its closer. I'm not sure I adjudicated that entirely properly, so if someone wants to correct me feel free!
That's how I was going to rule it as well, until a player reminded me that creatures of 3 or more size categories different can occupy the same space.
In the final fight, the Bloatmage (who had previously identified what a Hezrou could do), prepared a counterspell, and countered the opening Blasphemy (although I later discovered that doesn't work against SLAs).
Ignoring the spell-like ability part... how does a 10th level arcane caster counter a 7th level divine spell?... Oh! Just dispel magic? That's pretty sweet actually, given the caster levels.
I'll try to write-up a full report soon, but had an absolute blast running my table through this!
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The centipede then trampled them all. Its movement wasn't quite enough to get onto them and then out again, but I believe the rule is that he goes back to his last legal occupied space, or the nearest space that is open if its closer. I'm not sure I adjudicated that entirely properly, so if someone wants to correct me feel free!That's how I was going to rule it as well, until a player reminded me that creatures of 3 or more size categories different can occupy the same space.
Ooh, do you have a link/page number? I was looking for that rule!
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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As the Cleric in RDN's report, and as someone who plans to run this soon, I'd like to ask for a bit of clarification in regards to the dispel counterspell. My reading of the glossary was that a SLA could be countered using Dispel Magic, as that functions as a dispel, but that you couldn't cast the same spell to counter. The glossary specifically says that SLAs may be dispelled. Any thoughts? If there's been any definite word on the matter, I'd like to see it.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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As the Cleric in RDN's report, and as someone who plans to run this soon, I'd like to ask for a bit of clarification in regards to the dispel counterspell. My reading of the glossary was that a SLA could be countered using Dispel Magic, as that functions as a dispel, but that you couldn't cast the same spell to counter. The glossary specifically says that SLAs may be dispelled. Any thoughts? If there's been any definite word on the matter, I'd like to see it.
Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.
You make a "dispel check", but you're still using it as a counterspell and the effect of a successful check is to "counter" the spell, not to "dispel" it.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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As the Cleric in RDN's report, and as someone who plans to run this soon, I'd like to ask for a bit of clarification in regards to the dispel counterspell. My reading of the glossary was that a SLA could be countered using Dispel Magic, as that functions as a dispel, but that you couldn't cast the same spell to counter. The glossary specifically says that SLAs may be dispelled. Any thoughts? If there's been any definite word on the matter, I'd like to see it.
Dispelling and counterspelling aren't the same thing.
Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.
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As the Cleric in RDN's report, and as someone who plans to run this soon, I'd like to ask for a bit of clarification in regards to the dispel counterspell. My reading of the glossary was that a SLA could be countered using Dispel Magic, as that functions as a dispel, but that you couldn't cast the same spell to counter. The glossary specifically says that SLAs may be dispelled. Any thoughts? If there's been any definite word on the matter, I'd like to see it.Dispelling and counterspelling aren't the same thing.
Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.
Further, page 304 of the Bestiary notes that "Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counter spell, nor can they be counterspelled."
Personally, I love counterspelling, especially with dispel magic. Doing so doesn't care about resistances, immunities, ongoing spell effects, etc. In addition, it has some very amusing feat support such as Dispel Synergy and Destructive Dispel. I have not yet played a counterspelling expert in PFS, but I recently started one in a home game.
EDIT: Huh, I think I lost track of which thread I was typing in. My second entry is more appropriate for that "counterspelling expert in PFS" thread.
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Ah, there we go. Missed that bit. That definitely makes that encounter 10x harder, given that practically every group will, at minimum, take the STR penalty.
If they are extraordinarily lucky, they might have up a silence. I suppose an 11th-level cleric could also ready a quickened silence to stop it.