Greetings,
What do you guys think of this class (Beguiler, PH 2 : http://dndtools.eu/classes/beguiler ) to use within a Pathfinder Core Book + Advanced Players only game? Is it of comparable power with the base/core classes ?
Looking at the variant for rogues in all published material from Paizo, or other classes like the alchemist, nothing strikes me as similar to this spontaneous int based caster.
Looking for a rogue-like character that want to go diplomacy/bluff with a splash of illusion/enchantment, without relying on sneak attack, but that want to keep the trapfinding. Nothing seems better than that beguiler.
Would you allow it as is, with proper skill consolidation as per 3.5 -> Pathfinder for the class skills ? It's already fitting the d6 = 1/2 BAB progression. The only odd ball thrown in that class is the spellcasting. Any modifications should be made to it to merge with Pathfinder classes' power level ?
Though we dont really use them anymore, I gave all the base class 3.5 specialized casters the wizard school power appropriate to their specialization. So the war mage gets evoker powers, beguiler gets either the enchanter or illusionist powers, dread necromancer gets the necromancy powers.
@deuxhero
Of course I didn't mean the power level of Pathfinder classes to be uniform. The Ultimate books and Advanced Players did even out the field somewhat but we all know some classes lag behind. Rogues being one, especially in this caveat where combat oriented is not the focus of the character.
I meant to compare it to the overall distribution in power for the core/base classes. If playing a Beguiler means you hold your ground and play on even footing with the bard/alchemist, that's more than satisfactory, as opposed to a rogue with magic tricks talents than won't use sneak attacks anyway...
@Kolokotroni
You mean only the school specialization powers, not the additional spellslot I suppose ?
so yeah, the additional spell feature would come from Core/APG spells, the existing spelllist updated to pathfinder versions (communal-mass), and the PH 2 spells either kept as is, or just removed.
EDIT : a running gag in our 3.5 game with a beguiler was the lev 1 spell "whelm", which before it's upgraded version of "overwhelm" would be better called "underwhelm".
Isn't that redundant for Dread Necromancer, which already gets Command Undead?
No as he doesnt have grave touch or life sight.
You'd probably need some "overcome immunity to enchantments or illusions" type thing beyond their ability to bypass CR. Loved beguilers.
Well, we play in a very suboptimal group where flavor >> rollplay. So being unable to affect X or Y monster due to Z will happen to everyone, not just the beguiler. I mean by this that the fighter will not look for flying boots or other means as soon as possible, and will suck up the "can't do crap about this flying monster encounter" for example.
Since we play an AP, we'll see how it turns out, but i doubt we'll have to accommodate the beguiler on enchantment/illusion immunity. Well maybe if it happens on more than half the encounters. Same as for the fighter not flying around. We'll be reactionary on both fronts (character gear and class that are just not working most of the time, and require anti-Z or anti-Z2 'home' feats to function). Don't spoiler it please, I am a player, but we are in RotRL.
You'd probably need some "overcome immunity to enchantments or illusions" type thing beyond their ability to bypass CR. Loved beguilers.
Well, we play in a very suboptimal group where flavor >> rollplay. So being unable to affect X or Y monster due to Z will happen to everyone, not just the beguiler. I mean by this that the fighter will not look for flying boots or other means as soon as possible, and will suck up the "can't do crap about this flying monster encounter" for example.
Since we play an AP, we'll see how it turns out, but i doubt we'll have to accommodate the beguiler on enchantment/illusion immunity. Well maybe if it happens on more than half the encounters. Same as for the fighter not flying around. We'll be reactionary on both fronts (character gear and class that are just not working most of the time, and require anti-Z or anti-Z2 'home' feats to function). Don't spoiler it please, I am a player, but we are in RotRL.
In 3.5 there was a set of items in the magic item compendium that let you convert spell slots into a specific effect. Gloves of the Starey Sky or something like that was the one that let you turn 1st level slots into magic missiles. My beguiler has some of those for the occassions where enchantment wasnt useful. Sure it wasnt the best option, but it at least allowed you to do something in those cases.
Exactly. While Paizo did some theme heavy AP, i thought RotRL was pretty standard. And by standard i mean diverse and not 70% undead or 70% constructs. So a mind affecting specialist wouldn't feel useless most of the time, unlike a 3.5 rogue in Carrion Crown (no sneak attack !).