Fitzsimmons were not dropped from a very high height, and its possible that the container they are in will float at least for a little bit. Also Fitz has a tracker, which is how I assume Team Coulson will track them and rescue them.IF that canister is hitting the water at 200 mph, survival is rather dubious.
But, since the series has been renewed, it is highly likely that they will be rescued.
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I'm in the "kill villains" camp. Imagine how many people would have lived if someone fried Joker after his first arrest?
Homicidal psychopaths and killers belong in a single place. Six feet under.
This kind of argument requires one to be too genre savvy for me to agree with when discussing the morals of the characters. We, as the audience, know that in comics, the villains are always going to find a way to spring out of jail and become a menace on society again. The characters inside the story don't have this bird's eye overview and can't guess the tropes that will dictate their future. Therefore, since Hydra is mostly shattered (as far as Coulson's team know, Garret and his group are the only Hydra left), it should be possible to keep it's non superpowered members in jail - Deathlock has to be dealt with in some other way, but Garret could easily be confined by walls and armed guards.
Killing Garret is still killing, and unless you're sure no prison can confine him, it's the less good option than imprisoning him. Again, though, giving the circumstances, Fitz was acting in a totally brave, justified manner.
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This kind of argument requires one to be too genre savvy for me to agree with when discussing the morals of the characters. We, as the audience, know that in comics, the villains are always going to find a way to spring out of jail and become a menace on society again. The characters inside the story don't have this bird's eye overview and can't guess the tropes that will dictate their future.
You don't have to see beyond the 4th wall to realize that if the Joker has broken out of Arkham Asylum dozens upon dozens of times, it's pretty doubtful that he won't be able to escape this time as well.
In not killing the Joker, Batman essentially deemed his own moral high ground to be more important than the literally hundreds (if not THOUSANDS) of people that the Joker has killed.
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This kind of argument requires one to be too genre savvy for me to agree with when discussing the morals of the characters. We, as the audience, know that in comics, the villains are always going to find a way to spring out of jail and become a menace on society again. The characters inside the story don't have this bird's eye overview and can't guess the tropes that will dictate their future.You don't have to see beyond the 4th wall to realize that if the Joker has broken out of Arkham Asylum dozens upon dozens of times, it's pretty doubtful that he won't be able to escape this time as well.
In not killing the Joker, Batman essentially deemed his own moral high ground to be more important than the literally hundreds (if not THOUSANDS) of people that the Joker has killed.
Oh yes, I certainly agree that Batman is not being smart about the Joker - P.S, I think he could solve that problem by locking the Joker up in some super cell in the batcave or something and always keep an eye on him - will be really hard for the joker to escape that way, and Batman won't have to kill him.
However, Garret's case is different. He only got himself out of an impossible situation once, by springing Ward on his unsuspecting captors. There's no particular reason to think it's virtually impossible to keep him locked away, like with the Joker.
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Oh, and another thing... in Batman's case, his morals ARE more important than individual lives... once you have the Dark Knight killing people, he is not the distinguished vigilante that he wants to be. You could say that he is playing the long game for Gotham by attempting to be a 100000000000000% positive part of it's history. So that everyone will know the man with the best morals in the world cared about Gotham. Potentially, the only way to make the city good again.
It's unclear if the plan is working, but that's generally the plan.
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Fitzsimmons were not dropped from a very high height, and its possible that the container they are in will float at least for a little bit. Also Fitz has a tracker, which is how I assume Team Coulson will track them and rescue them.IF that canister is hitting the water at 200 mph, survival is rather dubious.
They weren't going that fast, though. Not even close to it. Garrett had just finished explicitly giving orders to remain in "Harrier mode" until they got clear, so they were flying (very) low and (very) slow.
I do remember a story where the prison Doctor convinced the Joker he had Cancer and was going to die.
The Joker looking at his own immanent death turns out to be a Worst Case Scenario situation.
Better one was the Batman/Punisher crossover they did. Fantastic moment where the Joker is surrendering to the Punisher and ready to be taken back to Arkham and Punisher is "yeah ..no"
Batman comes in last moment and Joker is all "That guy is crazy, he was actually going to shoot me"
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Maybe the Joker killed my parents and my little sister yesterday, but I can take comfort in the fact that Batman doesn't have to feel bad about killing a psychotic mass-murderer.
I'm also sure the families of soldiers who died in wars are not all that happy about it and take very minimal comfort in knowing that the death was a risk that their country was willing to take in order to secure some sort of agenda.
In Batman's mind, he is waging a war for Gotham's soul. There's no way to know if it works, long term, but that's the basic idea. Either way, for me personally, this works REALLY well as a story element, but it's not what I would have done if it were up to me. Which is why Batman is a uniquely heroic character in my mind, since he obviously cares about every person he fails to save in his clashes against the various super villains of Gotham, but he ALWAYS makes the harder call and NEVER resorts to killing. That kind of a dedication to a moral code is very impressive, and it's what worked so well in the movie "The Dark Knight", which is probably my favorite super hero movie of all times.
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I always figured batman knew he was just barely the second craziest person in gotham, and his whole not killing thing was the only thing stopping him from shooting to number 1 with a bullet.
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To quote myself on the Joker issue:
[threadjack]I've always had a fun alternate character interpretation involving this:
The Joker is immortal. Not just in the sense that all comic book characters are really tough to keep dead, but actually in-universe unkillable. He'll always come back. I mean, look at how many times he's escaped certain death! And I mean really certain, not just "I can't believe anyone could survive that fall." kinda certain.
And Batman knows that. Which means, when you get right down to it, you can't stop the Joker, ever. All killing him does is delay him a bit. And, being really smart, Batman has done some math. The Joker takes longer to get out of Arkham than come back from the dead. So...logically, sending him to Arkham is the right thing to do.
There's a codicil to this involving the times he's been tempted to kill the Joker and why he didn't. Firstly it'd be the height of selfishness to do so, since that would cause more deaths in the long run, and secondly then he would've broken his one rule for nothing, potentially sending him down the slippery slope to villainy...just as the Joker probably wants.[/threadjack]
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I'm hoping that this series has the guts to break conventions, and Ward will turn out to be a genuine villain. This also means killing off cast for real.But, since the series has been renewed, it is highly likely that they will be rescued.Fitzsimmons were not dropped from a very high height, and its possible that the container they are in will float at least for a little bit. Also Fitz has a tracker, which is how I assume Team Coulson will track them and rescue them.IF that canister is hitting the water at 200 mph, survival is rather dubious.
What, leave two crew members dead and one of them a villain? that's about half of the core characters of the story. It's too much.
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What, leave two crew members dead and one of them a villain? that's about half of the core characters of the story. It's too much.I'm hoping that this series has the guts to break conventions, and Ward will turn out to be a genuine villain. This also means killing off cast for real.But, since the series has been renewed, it is highly likely that they will be rescued.Fitzsimmons were not dropped from a very high height, and its possible that the container they are in will float at least for a little bit. Also Fitz has a tracker, which is how I assume Team Coulson will track them and rescue them.IF that canister is hitting the water at 200 mph, survival is rather dubious.
I really hope they keep Ward as a villain instead of giving him some sort of personal epiphany that he should be a good guy and switch sides. He is so much more interesting as a morally tortured villain.
I highly doubt they'll kill off FitzSimmons. One of them maybe, but I have a hard time believing they'll even do that. I'm worried that they'll kill off Tripp in favor of turning Ward back into a Good Guy.
I think Garret is more likely to die just because Bill Paxton is probably expensive.
I really hope they keep Ward as a villain instead of giving him some sort of personal epiphany that he should be a good guy and switch sides. He is so much more interesting as a morally tortured villain.
If these are the only two options, then I TOTALLY agree.
My preference, though, is that they off him ASAP.
I highly doubt they'll kill off FitzSimmons. One of them maybe, but I have a hard time believing they'll even do that.
Agree. That's not happening.
I'm worried that they'll kill off Tripp in favor of turning Ward back into a Good Guy.
UGH. That would be absolutely awful. Ward's actions in just a short time have been nothing short of stunningly reprehensible, and I could never watch him in a "good guy" role in any way, shape, or form. That would, in fact, probably damage the entire show for me. (It's hard enough for me to watch Root on the good guys' side in Person of Interest...)
I think Garret is more likely to die just because Bill Paxton is probably expensive.
Yep.
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I really hope they keep Ward as a villain instead of giving him some sort of personal epiphany that he should be a good guy and switch sides. He is so much more interesting as a morally tortured villain.If these are the only two options, then I TOTALLY agree.
My preference, though, is that they off him ASAP.
Unlikely. That is what Agent Garrett is for. Killing the Clairvoyant will allow ending the season in a [realitively] positive note.
It would also allow a passing of the "dark" torch so to speak.
I'm worried that they'll kill off Tripp in favor of turning Ward back into a Good Guy.
That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.
I really hope they keep Ward as a villain instead of giving him some sort of personal epiphany that he should be a good guy and switch sides. He is so much more interesting as a morally tortured villain.If these are the only two options, then I TOTALLY agree.
My preference, though, is that they off him ASAP.
Unlikely. That is what Agent Garrett is for. Killing the Clairvoyant will allow ending the season in a [realitively] positive note.
It would also allow a passing of the "dark" torch so to speak.
Indeed. Yet my preference is still for both of 'em to be ganked.
Batman can never win his war on crime. Not just because the villains will always break out of jail, but also because if Gotham ever truly becomes safe, then you don't have any more stories to tell. Or at least, you can't tell 'that' story, and comics have a great deal of trouble with actually allowing characters and the setting to grow and evolve.
This is all true -- based, as you say, on the company's economic reality.
But even within the comic reality, I don't think Batman has any expectation of winning the war on crime. His job is simply to keep the bad guys from taking over completely. The farther he can push them back, the better, but they'll never be gone entirely and he knows it.
I'm convinced that's why -- depsite his projected "loner" image -- he keeping bringing in new Robins. Given that he'll never win the war, someone will have to take over the fight in Gotham eventually. It may also be part of the thinking behind Batman, Inc. -- "can't be everywhere" replacing "won't always be here" -- but I haven't read any of those.
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That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.
Let's see:
6 main characters: 4 white, 2 asian: 33% minority
That beats a LOT of shows. Hell, it's a larger precentage of minorities than the actual demographics of the USA.
Oh, wait, I forgot, we already determined earlier in the thread that if someone isn't black, they might as well be white. Other minorities just don't count, do they?
That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.Let's see:
6 main characters: 4 white, 2 asian: 33% minority
That beats a LOT of shows. Hell, it's a larger percentage of minorities than the actual demographics of the USA.
Not quite. White people are now only the largest "minority" in a nation made up of Minorities. As to not being "black," remember Hispanics.
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Not quite. White people are now only the largest "minority" in a nation made up of Minorities. As to not being "black," remember Hispanics.
That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.Let's see:
6 main characters: 4 white, 2 asian: 33% minority
That beats a LOT of shows. Hell, it's a larger percentage of minorities than the actual demographics of the USA.
Whites are definately the majority when you define "white" as "not black". Or is it only Asians who are considered "white enough" to not bother counting them as a different ethnicity?
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Whites are definately the majority when you define "white" as "not black". Or is it only Asians who are considered "white enough" to not bother counting them as a different ethnicity?Not quite. White people are now only the largest "minority" in a nation made up of Minorities. As to not being "black," remember Hispanics.
That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.Let's see:
6 main characters: 4 white, 2 asian: 33% minority
That beats a LOT of shows. Hell, it's a larger percentage of minorities than the actual demographics of the USA.
What constitues a minority? Three billion people live in Asia, two billion in Africa, half a billion europeans/euro-americans.
Now back to shield...when can we expect nick fury vs shield?
What constitues a minority? Three billion people live in Asia, two billion in Africa, half a billion europeans/euro-americans.Whites are definately the majority when you define "white" as "not black". Or is it only Asians who are considered "white enough" to not bother counting them as a different ethnicity?Not quite. White people are now only the largest "minority" in a nation made up of Minorities. As to not being "black," remember Hispanics.
That would also be bad, as Agent Tripp also helps with the "whiteness" of the core cast.Let's see:
6 main characters: 4 white, 2 asian: 33% minority
That beats a LOT of shows. Hell, it's a larger percentage of minorities than the actual demographics of the USA.
We are discussing nationally - in this case the U.S.A.
Now back to shield...when can we expect nick fury vs shield?
That is happening now.
As the build-up started, I was saying 'of course, of course...why was anyone expecting...', then....
"Hey guys! I found it!"
Bwahahahahahahahahah!
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"Hey guys! I found it!"
That was great.
That whole episode was awesome, but that part was especially awesome.
Also awesome:
EDIT: Spoilered, just in case.
"Hey guys! I found it!"
That was great.
That whole episode was awesome, but that part was especially awesome.
Also awesome: ** spoiler omitted **
EDIT: Spoilered, just in case.
Poor Brett Dalton. :(
Photograph scene:
Garrett and Coulson are scratching out this weird alien pattern/design/code. There was talk of Garrett's "connection." This could be referring to the Kree Central Intelligence, a big super-computer crafted from the greatest minds amongst their population.
Skye's not human. (Hence the 084 designation.) Therefore, unless they make the Mandarin also not human, he's not the dad. She was healed by the drug without any of the weird effects it had on Coulson and Garrett. Is she an Inhuman? They appear normal until exposed to Terrigen Mist, then they mutate. Raina seems to know this, in whole or in part. Raina also seems to expect to undergo some type of change. Just more weird spooky talk, or is there a connection between her and Sky that we're just now seeing?
There's been a lot of talk about a Captain Marvel movie. She also has Kree origins, and Marvel's working very hard to keep the universe integrated, so there's a strong possibility that a Kree presence is what this is all leading to.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As the build-up started, I was saying 'of course, of course...why was anyone expecting...', then....
"Hey guys! I found it!"Bwahahahahahahahahah!
Few things make me laugh out loud, that was one of them.
Also the return of that gun. "I know what it does."
The doodles look familiar, but I can't place 'em.
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I liked the episode even if it left more questions then answers.
I am worried about Fitz, what if he comes back with average or worse intelligence because of the loss of oxygen to his brain.
Maybe Skye is a inhuman that hasn't been exposed to that special mist yet.