Thanks to Aelryinth and others for explaining the combat bonus math and Mythic Vital Strike stuff. It sounds like some new to Pathfinder stuff plus some mythic stuff can indeed add up to very high attack bonuses. I agree with Arthantos that having combat decided by the initiative roll is bad (or at least dull), but it is usually pretty easy to increase monster AC significantly, so I'll probably have to sit down and do some math before I can decide if Mythic Vital Strike is completely nuts.
I wonder if Mythic Adventures material will be allowed in PFS and if so whether any of the "over the top" stuff kicks in at low enough levels that non mythic PCs might feel inadequate. I don't play much PFS, so this isn't a huge concern for me, but I could see it being annoying if mythic powers became "must have" in PFS or even a home gaming group with some players who prefer to play "normal" PCs.
If the options in Mythic Adventures are indeed more powerful than those in other books I also wonder if there will be new "Mythic Adventure Paths" and or advice on how to adjust standard adventures and encounters to mythic PCs. Maybe that's covered in MA, but I haven't bought or read it yet.
Thanks to Aelryinth and others for explaining the combat bonus math and Mythic Vital Strike stuff. It sounds like some new to Pathfinder stuff plus some mythic stuff can indeed add up to very high attack bonuses. I agree with Arthantos that having combat decided by the initiative roll is bad (or at least dull), but it is usually pretty easy to increase monster AC significantly, so I'll probably have to sit down and do some math before I can decide if Mythic Vital Strike is completely nuts.
I wonder if Mythic Adventures material will be allowed in PFS and if so whether any of the "over the top" stuff kicks in at low enough levels that non mythic PCs might feel inadequate. I don't play much PFS, so this isn't a huge concern for me, but I could see it being annoying if mythic powers became "must have" in PFS or even a home gaming group with some players who prefer to play "normal" PCs.
If the options in Mythic Adventures are indeed more powerful than those in other books I also wonder if there will be new "Mythic Adventure Paths" and or advice on how to adjust standard adventures and encounters to mythic PCs. Maybe that's covered in MA, but I haven't bought or read it yet.
Increase the amount of mobs not their ACs.
Mythics PCs should be facing dozens of mobs at a time not 3
Hercules was over the top. How about Merlin? Or the trickster Puck from A Midsummer Night's Dream?
You don't become a figure of Myth without being powerful enough to significantly change the world. Do people actually dislike the book because it offers more paths for fantasy characters be fantastic?
And for all the talk of how that utterly broken 20 level 10 tier character has t0t4l 0wnage, how about giving the ancient dragon a stack of mythic tiers? Let's see that pair of fighters try to WWF mid-air-body-slam a dragon when it's Lord Bahamut they're screwing with!
Sounds like a fight the villagers will be telling their children about, eh?
That's pretty cool, but not as cool as a single 2nd-tier champion with both aerial assault and uncanny grapple.
At the start of his turn, he uses amazing initiative to take an extra standard action, which he uses to throw a grappled opponent into the air. He then uses his normal full-round action to charge straight up, grab the guy he just threw, and slam him back down into the ground, no tag-team required.
:-O
Nice.Now find me a way for a character to perform a fastball special on themselves and I'll be *really* impressed :)
Mirror Dodge (Su): When hit by a melee or ranged
attack, you can expend one use of mythic power as an
immediate action to replace yourself with an illu s ory
duplicate and teleport to any open s quare within 30 feet
of your current position. You take no damage from this
attack, which instead destroys your illu s ory duplicate
(similar to mirror ima.!Je). Using this ability requires a line
of effect to the square into which you teleport.
THIS is over the top.
Hello, I avoid full attacks. Even pounce.
Mythics PCs should be facing dozens of mobs at a time not 3
Enlarged fighter with a reach weapon takes mythic cleave and 12 still won't be enough!
Mirror Dodge (Su): When hit by a melee or ranged
attack, you can expend one use of mythic power as an
immediate action to replace yourself with an illu s ory
duplicate and teleport to any open s quare within 30 feet
of your current position. You take no damage from this
attack, which instead destroys your illu s ory duplicate
(similar to mirror ima.!Je). Using this ability requires a line
of effect to the square into which you teleport.THIS is over the top.
Hello, I avoid full attacks. Even pounce.
Add extra encounters and make them use up those precious mythic power points. And if they try to do the 1 hour rest trick to replenish them, have them attack then as well. Being a mythic DM means you get to be mythicly nasty!
Chuck a hoard of mythic dread wriaths at them....
Also, as an example for being over the top, I present you two Mythic Champions.
One has uncanny grapple, which allows him to throw a grappled opponent 10 feat per tier in any direction. Once he does this, the other champion, with his aerial assault, can leap high up into the air, grab this guy, and slam him back into the ground.
It's like super hero professional wresting WITH DRAGONS.
That's pretty cool, but not as cool as a single 2nd-tier champion with both aerial assault and uncanny grapple.
At the start of his turn, he uses amazing initiative to take an extra standard action, which he uses to throw a grappled opponent into the air. He then uses his normal full-round action to charge straight up, grab the guy he just threw, and slam him back down into the ground, no tag-team required.
Let's see them pull that off in a dungeon.
Or have a hidden evil dude cast a readied reverse gravity...
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That's pretty cool, but not as cool as a single 2nd-tier champion with both aerial assault and uncanny grapple.
At the start of his turn, he uses amazing initiative to take an extra standard action, which he uses to throw a grappled opponent into the air. He then uses his normal full-round action to charge straight up, grab the guy he just threw, and slam him back down into the ground, no tag-team required.
Let's see them pull that off in a dungeon.
Or have a hidden evil dude cast a readied reverse gravity...
I think the launch and throw down is great. I'd love to see that in a game! As for a readied reverse gravity - unless the evil dude knows I can do it, and do it regularly, I'd feel really ripped off if my DM pulled that readied action out of the bag.
Mirror Dodge (Su): When hit by a melee or ranged
attack, you can expend one use of mythic power as an
immediate action to replace yourself with an illu s ory
duplicate and teleport to any open s quare within 30 feet
of your current position. You take no damage from this
attack, which instead destroys your illu s ory duplicate
(similar to mirror ima.!Je). Using this ability requires a line
of effect to the square into which you teleport.THIS is over the top.
Hello, I avoid full attacks. Even pounce.
The attacker can redirect all attacks except the first to other targets if there are any.
Any teleportation wizard can do the same from level 1. Not as an immediate action but he can avoid the full attack.
How: When it is your turn make a 5ft step away from any enemy melees. Ready a swift action with the trigger "someone attacks me in melee". If you are attacked in melee use your Shift (Su): power to teleport away.
However he got to be adjacent to you, he can't normally take a 5ft step (either he already did or he moved) and thus can't reach you without reach.
So a normal wizard has to waste his turn doing this but he can. And sometimes it might be worth it.
I think the launch and throw down is great. I'd love to see that in a game! As for a readied reverse gravity - unless the evil dude knows I can do it, and do it regularly, I'd feel really ripped off if my DM pulled that readied action out of the bag.That's pretty cool, but not as cool as a single 2nd-tier champion with both aerial assault and uncanny grapple.
At the start of his turn, he uses amazing initiative to take an extra standard action, which he uses to throw a grappled opponent into the air. He then uses his normal full-round action to charge straight up, grab the guy he just threw, and slam him back down into the ground, no tag-team required.
Let's see them pull that off in a dungeon.
Or have a hidden evil dude cast a readied reverse gravity...
It would be a bit harsh but is it any harsher than you pulling off a dragon mid-flight?
Also I think the monsters wouldn't need too much intelligence to identify the dudes pulling off mythic stuff all over the shop. Their capes and wearing their pants over the rest of their gear might be a bit of a giveaway!
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My group had a blast with the system. Here's some highlights:
The players were playing Ballista Tag against clockwork zombies in chariots and the Bard to a bolt to the chest and keep fighting. His access to Archemage allowed him to pull Chill Touch out of his hat to drive the zombies off.
Party Wizard with 20 Str was fighting in melee almost as good as a low level fighter. And used his familar link to fireball creatively.
One Champion took a multi ton robo Spynix DRIVING OVER HIM to get him to -95 hp to kill him.
The Heirophant Ranger could stay up on watch almost 23/7. (1 hour down time a day).
Party Rogue/Fighter engaged in what I can only describe as aireal spear dancing.
The Trickster/Ninja could flicker in and out of stealth and used his natrual weapons (race power) to do insane bleed damage. One second you saw large Raven creature, next 3 people were bleeding out on the floor.
It was a hoot!
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Mirror Dodge (Su): When hit by a melee or ranged
attack, you can expend one use of mythic power as an
immediate action to replace yourself with an illu s ory
duplicate and teleport to any open s quare within 30 feet
of your current position. You take no damage from this
attack, which instead destroys your illu s ory duplicate
(similar to mirror ima.!Je). Using this ability requires a line
of effect to the square into which you teleport.THIS is over the top.
Hello, I avoid full attacks. Even pounce.
Using the same abilities I described earlier:
- champion Fleet Charge to close and strike
- archmage/trickster uses Mirror Dodge
- champion uses move action to reach wizard
- standard action Mythic Vital Strike
- standard action Mythic Vital Strike
The important part is, the champion has two opportunities to move, one of which includes an attack.
Outside of movement, he has two Vital Strikes, either one of which will kill the archmage/trickster. The archmage can dodge only one of the three incoming attacks. Even if you add in Crane Wing, your still going to take one hit. Discrete, powerful attacks makes it very difficult to build defensively in Mythic.
Assuming the wizard doesn't have some other defence up like mirror image and the wizard's line of sight is the same as the champion, and has the range etc etc etc. It's not cut and dried by any means.
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Assuming the wizard doesn't have some other defence up like mirror image and the wizard's line of sight is the same as the champion, and has the range etc etc etc. It's not cut and dried by any means.
A well prepared wizard can be all but impossible to actually kill.
He might loose the fight, but he'll survive.