Krinn |
Hi.
I'm going to play WotR with my friends, I'm the GM.
For the laugh, they all rolled their background using the Ultimate Campaign Generator.
One wishes to play an elven wizard with the Riftwarden Orphan trait and this brings the first question.
The crusades started less than 100 years ago, and the wardstones have been up for 70, yet the minimum age for an elven wizard is 120 years. Would this be a problem with the trait backstory, later in the game?
Funnily enough, he rolled for a random race for his family and it came up elf! Obviously, this also makes perfect sense, since a human would be dead for old age before the elf could grow up.
Next, he got a Mentor as Influential Associate.
I thought that since he is an elven wizard related to the Riftwardens, and Aravashnial is an actual elven wizard Riftwarden, that he could be that Mentor himself, perhaps even a family member of the character's foster parents who recognized both the potential and the birthmark in the young PC.
Would it be a problem if such a character was so heavily involved with Aravashnial?
Tangent101 |
I'm not sure it would be. It would mean that the player KNOWS him... but you could have the mentorship be strained or Aravashnial suspicious someone he "knows" is there right with the demon attack and start getting all paranoid. ;) In any event, if he goes hostile on the party then have him try to urge his mentored student into leaving with him.
Diekssus |
with the exception of the character trait that describes "your parents are dead" or the fact that his personal history doesn't really allow for it unless you are willing to cut out the parts that were so important for his personal development into what he's become.
There is also the obvious issue of age here, Its explained that the events that led him to the crusade started shortly after the end of his apprenticeship (the extra starting age for a wizard) and after that only the journey there and 2 years of activity.
His interest in the crusades came from the demon incursions in the world, his journey to the crusades had his heart broken, the crusades rejected most of his idea's and the demons robbed him (albeit indirectly) from his eyesight. and its these rather rapidly following events that gave him his sunny disposition.
Obviously, A GM can just make something up and fit his version in anywhere. however, you are going to rewrite this guys entire character :) gl
Diekssus |
And that's been handwaved as "for elves or other long-lived races, it can be a brother or uncle or the like"
The handwaving you mention is for the trait "child of the crusade" the Riftwarden orphan relies on the fact that your parents are in fact the riftwardens. You might argue that aravashnial brother/sister was also a riftwarden, however this would cut into his own story of how he discovered them and his familiarity with them and his parents reactions to him during his studies, something that once again, would change his entire character.
Obviously, A GM can just make something up and fit his version in anywhere. however, you are going to rewrite this guys entire character :)
however no hand waving has ever been that easy
Diekssus |
If you have read in other threads you would know that the writers of the AP have stated that in the case of long-lived races such as elves, that a brother or uncle or the like could be the relative in question.
first, Either link it trough, or don't claim others words at all. second, I already explained what would be wrong with the brother proposition
Tangent101 |
Dude, I have better things to do with my time than to search a thread for a comment; though I believe it was the Stickied thread on the Worldwound section. The game designers did not intend to discriminate against specific races for this trait. In addition, the START of this conflict depends on the GM. It does not necessarily take place at the same time as Reign of Winter (which is one of the few APs which does have a set start date). It has been stated elsewhere (and no, I'm not going to look it up and link for you) that APs can be run whenever the GM wants them to be. Thus this AP could be a hundred years from now if the GM decides it will be and elves might have to be 200 years old in order to have been around when the Worldwound first opened. It doesn't matter!
And before you say it does, please note that the developers have REFUSED to create an official timeline for Golarion in regards to "Runelords happened on this date and Jade Regent happened on that date and this is the end-result of these APs" because they don't want to constrain the GMs. They don't want GMs to feel "I can't run this AP because it already happened and it happened like that and I don't want to run something that's not officially Golarion."
Diekssus |
Dude, I have better things to do with my time than to search a thread for a comment; though I believe it was the Stickied thread on the Worldwound section. The game designers did not intend to discriminate against specific races for this trait. In addition, the START of this conflict depends on the GM. It does not necessarily take place at the same time as Reign of Winter (which is one of the few APs which does have a set start date). It has been stated elsewhere (and no, I'm not going to look it up and link for you) that APs can be run whenever the GM wants them to be. Thus this AP could be a hundred years from now if the GM decides it will be and elves might have to be 200 years old in order to have been around when the Worldwound first opened. It doesn't matter!
And before you say it does, please note that the developers have REFUSED to create an official timeline for Golarion in regards to "Runelords happened on this date and Jade Regent happened on that date and this is the end-result of these APs" because they don't want to constrain the GMs. They don't want GMs to feel "I can't run this AP because it already happened and it happened like that and I don't want to run something that's not officially Golarion."
They may have refused to give a timeline, yet they have deigned to set certain events at a set distance from each other. This adventure path for example takes place +/- a 100 years after Arodens death. An event that caused a lot of the events in the adventure path to be set in motion. So while you might say that the developers did not want such things to happen, they actually did and still do. So no, the way the adventure path is written, and the chain of events described as they are. It is not a simple question of handwaving
Krinn |
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Thanks for all the replies :)
I went with the PC and Aravashnial knowing each other, the PC trying to learn from him as much as he can during his latest couple years of apprenticeship as a wizard. Aravashnial went to Kenabres just two years ago, so he definitely isn't the PC's teacher.
This won't mean that Aravashnial actually cares about the PC, he might even not remember his name at all. After all, he has more important things to do. Chatting with a "novice" about demonology is just a thing that Aravashnial does between his explorations.
But the PC enjoyed those chats nonetheless, seeing the more experienced wizard as a paragon of lore to emulate...
The Worldwound is at most 107 years old, while an elven wizard would be at least 120 years old. I'm handwaving this by letting the PC be a precocious 105 year old elf, and his parents among the first to investigate the Worldwound. He's not yet graduated as a wizard, but Khorramzadeh didn't wait for him to be "ready", so he'll have to learn "applied magic" the hard way.
If only Aroden died a couple decades earlier... :)
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Krinn |
Elven wizards have 110 +10d6 years at start, at a minimum that's 120 years.
The campaign trait says that his parents disappeared into the Worldwound, (very) shortly after the character's birth.
Your foster family has confirmed that both of your parents were Riftwardens, and has further confirmed that your parents went missing on a secret mission into the Worldwound less than a month after you were born.
The Worldwound had to be there a month after the character's birth.
I suppose I could just start the AP some 20 years in the future, but that doesn't sound right to me. In any case, the player loves the idea of being an arrogant elven child-prodigy (he's destined to mythic deeds after all), so that's good enough for me. :)
Tangent101 |
You realize that elves mature at a slower rate than humans, right? And 60-80 years is a long time to forget much about one's parents, especially when the parents don't talk to you about their work. What is wrong with just having him be a little older when they disappeared? These are GUIDELINES, they are not set in stone. You guys are GMs! You are SUPPOSED to modify things to make the game more enjoyable, not to go Blue Screen of Death on them and say "Does Not Compute" or "You Can't Do That, Dave."
In another thread, a GM plans on modifying Tsuto to be seeking redemption and wanting the party's help in saving his sister in a Runelords campaign. Are you going to insist that is wrong and he can't do that? And what about GMs who have players who previously went through a campaign? They may have a mixture of new and old players... and thus change things to make the game enjoyable for the old guard as well as the new.
Here's something I challenge you to do. Rather than say "you can't do this" why don't you look at ways that the player CAN do this. This is a useful skill to have, especially in the business world. Practice it here and now. ;)
Krinn |
I would have to read Book 3 before seeing how the timeline intertwines with the story traits. I fully expect the birthmark on the elf was caused by some Worldwound thingie, and the elf was born during that Worldwound thingie for the mark to appear.
The player couldn't be an elven wizard with less than 120 years. But he CAN do this because he's precocious, perhaps due to the very nature of that strange energies that made the birthmark appear.
15 years for a human child or 80 years for an elf child are exactly the same if they're still inspired by the Riftwarden they parents were. The elf actually wishes to become a Riftwarden himself in the future, that's why he started studying magic.
No child can remember much about his parents if they disappeared 1 month after the birth (per the trait description), regardless of race. What his foster parents kept saying about them, and how the mysterious Aravashnial seems to be a model to learn from is still driving the elf to follow his parents' footprints.
Tempestorm |
My Riftwarden Orphan is an Elven Wizard. I just adjusted the story behind the trait a bit to fit his background story. Worked out wonderfuly.
Eventualy, after losing his position at the library, he learned from an uncle that his parents had been Riftwardens and that they had apparently been lost in the World Wound. Well, our Elf thought about killing himself but was too lazy so instead he decided to go to the World Wound and see if he could die there. Along the way he met up with a group of would be crusaders and something happened. As he traveled with them he began to feed off of their excitment and energy. For the first time in his life he felt motivated...
Now he endevors to keep such exciting allies close because he fears that if left to his own devices he would simply wander out into the World Wound and let it swallow him. Joining the crusade he might still die, but at least for the first time in his long life he feels something...
Remember, you can change Anything and Everything if you so desire...
Tempestorm |
Elven wizards have 110 +10d6 years at start, at a minimum that's 120 years.
The campaign trait says that his parents disappeared into the Worldwound, (very) shortly after the character's birth.Quote:Your foster family has confirmed that both of your parents were Riftwardens, and has further confirmed that your parents went missing on a secret mission into the Worldwound less than a month after you were born.The Worldwound had to be there a month after the character's birth.
I suppose I could just start the AP some 20 years in the future, but that doesn't sound right to me. In any case, the player loves the idea of being an arrogant elven child-prodigy (he's destined to mythic deeds after all), so that's good enough for me. :)
Why are you so hung up on the ages listed in the book? You realize they are guidelines right? You can change them. Or you can, as I did, adjust the story to fit an Elven character.
Maybe your Elf is a "teenager" who has ran away from home in search of his parents... and he has brought with him a beginers book of spells, perhaps that once belonged to his mother/father?
Posibiites are quite limitless if you do not self impose shackles on yourself.
Tangent101 |
Or you could go one better: your elf was the FATHER (or mother) of an elf, but due to a disagreement with your partner, she or he left with your child before you got to know them. After your partner died due to some intrigue (or vanished) you decided to seek your child... and found the child had married someone and the two of them vanished in the Worldwound. Rather than a child of a Riftwarden... you're the parent looking for the child you never knew.