The brilliance of the this game is that you always use exactly the same timer no matter how many players you have. So each game take 30 turns. That is 10 rounds with 3 players or 5 rounds with 6.
This should be more than enough to win the scenario, unless your party is fooling around instead of focusing on the objective.
The game is pretty easy to win, as the designer want's the players to have fun. But that doesn't mean the game should be so easy that you lose interest.
Remember that you can use Blessing of God to make additional explorations, so it shouldn't take too long locate the Villain and the Henchmen. Close two locations as soon as possible. Then spread out so that each hero can (temporarily) close their location when you have found the Villain. That should ensure his early demise!
I've played two games tonight with my kids and we are failing Brigandoom, wishing the Blessing Deck was about 10 or 20 deeper.
The second game we put a lot more emphasis on exploring. We closed two locations (4 players) but did not find the Villain in time. I think a large part of it was Merisiel evading every encounter (usually due to a lack of weapon) and Kyra spending time healing Ezren. I am curious to hear more about how other parties manage to complete the scenario in time. Kyra used most of her Blessing for an extra exploration. Valeros seems to be the most effective player, though he seems to have few extra exploration options.
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We have been 4 players in our 3 scenarios, so far.
In our first attempt at Brigadoom! we were Harsk, Kyra, Lem and Seoni.
We have discovered Vhiski very early (Harsk had looked, and we decided to leave that location until we had closed all the others.
Unfortunately we didn't make it time. But just for fun, I (as Lem) took my turn (#31), revealed Vhiski and caught him! So close, and yet so far!
A couple of days later, Seoni was absent, but her place was taken by Valeros.
We had a little more trouble finding Vhiski this time, but still managed to catch him within the last few turns. Then we immediately went after the drugdealer and he was no match for us, as we caught him halfway through the game.
We are now ready to go after the dragon on Tuesday!
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I'm rereading the Rulebook now. Having actually played means the rules are a lt clearer. We didn't close the location after finding and defeating Vhiski. I didn't remember that we could Temporarily close locations when the villain is found. These two rules probably mean we should have completed Brigandoom first time round.
When you find the villain, people in other locations can attempt to temporally close them:-
Page 18 of the rulebook.
Attempt to Temporarily Close Open Locations: When a player encounters the villain, each player at any other location may immediately attempt to fulfill the “When Closing” requirement for his location. If any player at a location succeeds, his location is temporarily closed and the villain cannot escape there this turn (see Check to See Whether the Villain Escapes, below). Temporarily closing a location does not trigger any of the other effects of closing a location; the location opens again immediately after the encounter. Players may attempts to close locations in any order they wish.
All the ebst.
Great Uncle LROG
You get the same time (30 cards) but you have to remember that you have more people playing and so you have a better chance of finding the villian.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
If you have 6 players, one in each location, then you have a better chance of finding the villian than if you had 2 players in 3 locations.
To be honest, you can find the villian on the first turn of a location if you are lucky enough.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
Find a henchman in a location and defeat him. Check the location in case the villain is there. If he is, then he becomes the entirety of the location.
Try to temporally close other locations, so that he has only a few locations he can run to.
Take on the villain, if you defeat you win, if not he escapes to the other open locations.
So, now you have an idea of where he is, its down to the probability of finding that location and repeating the above.
So, if you have 8 locations and can shut down 5 of them, then you know that he can only run to 2 others when the location he is in is closed.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
Some of my favorite games ever cannot get onto the table, because my fellow gamers doesn't have the same taste as me. So maybe your friends will not like this game.
We enjoy the game very much, and we don't see the larger number of players as a problem. Yes, there are more locations, but each player also have a starting hand of 15 Cards, which means there are more Blessings at any given turn to ensure that ANY encounter is bound to succeed.
The biggest problem with the game is that players are so focused on finding cards, that they forget the main objective: to catch the villain.
Our strategy is to take any boons with a minimum chance. If you don't get the card, then at least the Villain/Henchman is closer the top. But when the Henchman/Villain comes around then everybody will chip in with Light Crossbows, Spells and Blessings to ensure a win.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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1) Never use blessings for anything but exploring.
2) Use allies to explore as often as possible.
3) Team up early to make sure you blow through two locations. You need them closed ASAP. Split up for coverage after this goal is done.
4) Cards that evade just raise the clock on you. Same with abilities. Go kill things.
5) Cards that let you see in the deck (spyglass, detect evil, detect magic, augury, etc) are golden, since they can set you up for ideal matchups. Don't be afraid to switch locations with someone to make sure you get good matchups.
This has been our strategy with 4 players. We have consistently won, although I know at least twice we did it on the last blessing. 6 sounds really tough, so you become even more dependent on allies and blessings for extra exploration.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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I've been playing a number of 6 player rounds to see how they work out. You need to be very aggressive with the extra turns, and they tend to run down to the last set of turns, but it's very winnable. Forget fully exploring several locations like you can with smaller groups, though.
On the plus side, the treasure flows pretty freely with so many players.
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On the plus side, the treasure flows pretty freely with so many players.
I think this is part of the equation you're missing, Zombers.
More players means more trading in between scenarios.
It also means more reward cards for the group once you successfully complete the scenario. And a greater chance that someone in the party is getting a "reward" that they will have to trade (ex Seelah - Item).
Added on top of the fact that you're probably getting a comparable amount of loot from the scenario, due to all of the locations, and I think it balances out.
My experience also seems to indicate that with more players, the game is tighter. The first time we played 4 players, we was choosing not to close locations when we defeated the henchmen, hoping to get the boons below. After losing by mile twice, we stopped fooling around and got to business. We were, granted with some luck, able win twice in a roll.
Regarding the balance issue, as someone pointed out, with more players means more card selection as you progress through the scenarios. I can see individual being a lot more customise and hence, powerful, in my 4 player game than my solo character game. Also a wider range of abilities to deal with threats I suppose.
This method definitely seems counter intuitive to the theme, and less fun.
Maybe we have a different view upon the theme?
I am not a roleplayer, so I have nothing to compare it with. I simply look at each scenario, and think:First we need to catch a racketeer, then we need to crack down upon a drug dealer and finally we need to deal with a poor dragon, just because it eats a sheep or a cow once in a while. The dragon hasn't killed a human ever, but people are still scared of it.
No wonder wild animals have a hard time surviving...
I see our party as State Troopers being sent out to help those communities that isn't able to deal with their problems themselves.
While we want to improve ourselves, our first priority is to get the job done.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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Varies widely by scenario and I do often throw buffs to get boons, but I'm seeing well over a dozen cards going back into the box after decks are rebuilt. The last one was, I believe, 3 blessing, 5 spells, 11 allies (6 of which were freebies for finishing), 3 weapons, 1 item, and 1 armor, so 18 new cards excluding the scenario reward. Local Heroes was the scenario.
My biggest issue with the game isn't that there isn't enough turns, though it does tend to get more challenging as the number of players increases, it's that the length of the game seems to greatly increase. I would say that 30-60 minutes for a 2 - 3 character game may work out but I would say that 3-4 hours is the time frame for a 6 character game. It isn't that the number of turns changes but that the time for each turns grows dramatically because characters have to explore more often and therefore playing through one turn may actually take the same time as 3-4 turns would take in a small group game.
I'm not complaining though, just an observation about time. And since my wife and I were up trying to complete the 3rd scenario (and failed after 2-3 hours with 6 characters), I know some times it's best not to go for extra.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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Russ, so is this scenario by scenario your seeing lots of cards getting replaced in 6 player games?
Definitely. Most characters replace a few cards every game so far in chapter 1.
Just finished Trouble in Sandpoint, extra cards were:
2 weapons
1 armor
5 spells
5 items (thanks to Junk Beach, mainly)
4 allies
7 blessing (!)
So 24 boons picked up.
One of my bigger piles o' swag. Game did go down to the last turn, which made the sinspawn roll antsy.
Several blessings swapped in, a spell or two, 1 weapon, 1 ally, and a few items.
That scenario has (I believe) 38 boons in it with 6 players, excluding extra boons brought through barriers, closing effects, and the like. It adds up to a lot of extra cards even when you don't plow through every last location.
MikMik, I could understand that strategy if this game were all inclusive and a one shot. But I assume most people go into this game expecting it to carry on into the next adventure and are probably interested in improving their characters decks (both an intrinsic part of deck builders and of PF RPG not that Im necessarily calling this either but it has roots in both).
That is certainly how we play!
However, you're not allowed to keep more than 15 cards of very specific types, and the chance of finding anything better than your starting deck is not good. We have looked at the cards cards we have banished, and we didn't miss much. As for the stuff we do bring home, most is banished because we don't have the space, so only a few select cards are improving our hands.
Five games in and most of our characters have replaced about half of their original deck. Some of those changes have been swapping out basic items for their magic or improved versions; some have been to tweak thinks so that items and allies better rit with what we regard as our strengths and weaknesses. I expect that as a group we'll still encounter at least one card per character in each scenario that represents an improvement over what we have at present.
I do wonder what I'm supposed to do with the armload of short swords and wooden shields we encounter, though - they're straight back in the box, rather than being carted off to a merchant for a few coppers as they would be in a pen&paper RPG.
@RDewsbery - you're still adventuring in Sandpoint so the loot is low quality. In a few Adventures' time you'll be in a more exotic location and the basic cards won't be found any more. I can't wait!
To everyone else - the game is *much* harder with 6 characters. There are plenty of threads complaining that this game is too *easy*, to those I have suggested adding more characters and playing again (it's what I'm doing at the moment and I find it a much better experience).
With 6 you need to remember that, if you spread out and temp close five locations when the villain is first found you then know roughly where he runs to. If you can then perma-close a couple more locations before touching the locations he's gone to you have a chance.
And, yes, closing locations ASAP by killing the henchman and passing the perma-close check is really, really, important. You lose out on some loot, but you're in town to sort out the villains, not go on an extended shopping spree! There's plenty of loot to be had from the decks you do have to dig through during your search.
Finally, if you really do find it absolutely impossible with 30 blessings and 6 players, why not give yourself some more (e.g. 40, or 5-per-location, etc) but record your 'score' (i.e. the turn number you won on) for each scenario on your character sheet. Next time you play through the game try to do it quicker, ideally within the 30 turn limit.
We just played the first two scenarios tonight having failed the first one twice previously. We smashed the two tonight, having over ten cards left in the blessing deck. The biggest issue for us was two-fold:
1, we weren't trying to explore, not putting in the effort to make extra explorations;
2- I had forgotten the rule about Temporarily Closing locations when the Villain is encountered. I am rereading the entire rulebook now to double-check that we have been playing correctly. I suspect that this may be the reason others find it difficult to succeed.
QUESTIONS:
When you've defeated the Villain with 10 turns to go, can you continue to explore?
When you've defeated a Henchman and closed the location, can you continue to explore that location? (Seoni closed the Academy but wanted to explore it further...)
When you beat the villain the game ends, so I don't think you can explore more.
If you have closed the location, all the cards of that location (except the Location card itself) are placed back in the box. So, there would be nothing to explore.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
If you have closed the location, all the cards of that location (except the Location card itself) are placed back in the box. So, there would be nothing to explore.
Unless cards are added at closure, e.g. General Store, in which case you may continue to explore that location.
Good spot!!!
I went and checked and also found in the base set:-
Garrison
When permenently closed:-
On closing, shuffle together any weapons and armor remaining in this deck and place under this location.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
There are two location cards in the Burnt Offerings set as well.
Goblin Fortress:-
When permenently closed:-
On closing, add 1d4 random weapons to this location without looking at them, then automatically aquire the top card.
Junk Beach:-
When permenently closed:-
On closing, add 1d4 random items to this location without looking at them, then automatically aquire the top card.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
I'm pretty new to this game (just got it a few days ago), but doesn't it simply boil down to where in the location decks the villain/henchmen are located? If they all end up near the bottom of the location decks, you'll run out of your blessing deck. If they all end up near the top of the location decks, you won't. Regardless of the number of players. Luck of the shuffle, it seems.
I'm pretty new to this game (just got it a few days ago), but doesn't it simply boil down to where in the location decks the villain/henchmen are located? If they all end up near the bottom of the location decks, you'll run out of your blessing deck. If they all end up near the top of the location decks, you won't. Regardless of the number of players. Luck of the shuffle, it seems.
The luck of the shuffle is mostly uncontrollable, as you suggest (there are arguments here; but, I digress).
However, it's when the luck of the shuffle seems to work against you that I feel the game starts to shine even further. When you start to feel the clock running out, and you're not nearly as close to winning as you should be, you have to start taking greater risks to win. When you start pushing further than you have a right to, you sometimes fail, but you sometimes pull off miracles and those miracles are the stories I keep telling to others to get them to try the game... and they do... and when they tell you THEIR stories in the same situation, you've struck gold.
However, it's when the luck of the shuffle seems to work against you that I feel the game starts to shine even further. When you start to feel the clock running out, and you're not nearly as close to winning as you should be, you have to start taking greater risks to win. When you start pushing further than you have a right to, you sometimes fail, but you sometimes pull off miracles and those miracles are the stories I keep telling to others to get them to try the game... and they do... and when they tell you THEIR stories in the same situation, you've struck gold.
My wife and I just finished the third of the Base set scenarios in a situation like this. We were down to our second to last turn, we were spread out in the four open locations but we had no ideas where the dragon was. We had encountered it early but failed to defeat it and had seven open locations for it to go to, so we lost 6 turns because of that. So, on the last turn she explored once and got a crowbar. Using her last explore attempt, she found the villain. We dumped everything we could into the checks needed, succeeded in closing all the locations and defeated the dragon. It was our second run through already and we didn't want to have to do a third. But it's a good example of what you are talking about.
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I'm pretty new to this game (just got it a few days ago), but doesn't it simply boil down to where in the location decks the villain/henchmen are located? If they all end up near the bottom of the location decks, you'll run out of your blessing deck. If they all end up near the top of the location decks, you won't. Regardless of the number of players. Luck of the shuffle, it seems.
With a large number of players, you have lots of blessing and ally cards between you, which will let the players explore more than once per turn. Add in healing powers to get those cards back from the discard pile (Kyra's power, Cure spell), and you can hopefully keep exploring a lot of cards from the location decks each turn, so you should have a chance to win even if all the villains and henchmen are near the bottoms of the location decks. And again, because you have that many characters with abilities to help each other in combat, you don't need to worry about saving those blessing cards in your hand to get extra dice, so you can use them all to get extra explorations per turn.
That's really the point. I've only played the game solo so far, with either one or two characters, and it's just a matter of going through the locations beating up on things until you get there. I use my blessing cards for extra dice just as often as to explore again on my turn. Not finishing before running out in the blessings deck has only been a threat twice in 7 or 8 games so far, and I've won every game with no deaths.
It sounds like it's a very different strategy with more people, and you have to coordinate better to win. The fact that low and high numbers of players require different strategies is actually a cool detail that I like about the game.
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The fact that low and high numbers of players require different strategies is actually a cool detail that I like about the game.
+1
I think it would be easy enough to just make up a charcter list card to place somewhere.
A bit like the listings for the card decks at the back of the rule book.
That way you can rest characters and put their cards back into the various sections of the box.
The, when you want to use them again, it's easy enough to read off your list for that characters cards.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
I think it would be easy enough to just make up a charcter list card to place somewhere.
A bit like the listings for the card decks at the back of the rule book.
That way you can rest characters and put their cards back into the various sections of the box.
The, when you want to use them again, it's easy enough to read off your list for that characters cards.
All the best.
Great Uncle LROG
You mean like the official character card sheets?
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Another thing to remember is that the more PCs you have the more 'hit points' you have as a group. If you are by yourself, you only have 15 hit point/cards to deal with potentially location 30 cards. At 6 people you have 90 hp/cards to only 80 location cards. That means you have more cards to spend to get extra explores and you aren't going to worry as much if someone gets hit. Ultimately it comes down to the cards that give extra explores. If you are playing 1 or 2 PCs, you are probably going to use those Blessings to pass checks. With 5-6 PCs, the other characters have other abilities to help each other pass checks. So you are going to be using your Blessings to do explores. That is the reason why I wouldn't even attempt a 5-6 PC game without having Sajan as one of the PCs [8 base blessings]. Especially if you are playing with Ezren [0 base blessings].
I've seen a couple of 5-6 character games now and the games without Sajan have all been a little harder than the ones with him. That is one of things I like about the game. There is so much variety of experiences and styles and strategies.
A single character game is much different from a 6 character one. Yes you will have to use the blessings more for checks than exploration but you have fewer cards to go through. You have much more individual turns but less cards/health available. There are more chances things will go wrong but less danger when they do (if you fail to defeat the villain early in a one character game you may lose 2 turns of the 30, the same situation in a 6 character game could lose 7 turns, ouch).
It seems to me that the game embraces the spirit of adventuring that draws most of the gaming community to gaming in the first place, and the charcters to the adventuring lifestyle. A little bit of strategy, a little bit of knowledge, and even a little bit of luck will get you through the day (or game) but without any of the three you're almost certainly screwed.
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I really love the locked Blessings Deck. It gives the game some depth. If you adjust the Blessing Deck for how many PCs there are, then there isn't anything fundamentally different between playing 2 PCs or playing 6 PCs. Since the Blessings Deck is locked, it forces you to prioritize your cards differently. Am I going to hold that Ally/Blessing because he gives a great bonus to a check I might need, or should I spend him now for another explore? Do I have room in my deck for a wand, or do I need to save room for a spy glass? I think the Blessings deck is truly the genius game mechanic of the game.