Zen Archer (Enlarge Person / Ki Pool / Lead Blade / Gravity Bow)


Rules Questions

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Of course the quote is out of context, and that was intentional. Just quoting something without looking at the big picture leads to confusion.

Look at the link to James Jacobs. If you link to this thread and ask him if EP and LB stack if you are a monk I’m 99 % certain he will tell you to take the question to the design team.

BTW,
1) I don’t get why any archer would want to use EP, the minus 2 to attack would actually means less damage per round.

2) You can’t make potions of LB so how is he going to buff himself? UMD? Not a very reliable tactic until really high levels.

3) it takes a move action to draw an item regardless if it is potion or a wand since Quick draw don’t apply to wands and potions

3a)and it is a standard action do use either of them and drinking a potion provokes AoO. So is this tactic really useful?


Zark wrote:

Of course the quote is out of context, and that was intentional. Just quoting something without looking at the big picture leads to confusion.

Look at the link to James Jacobs. If you link to this thread and ask him if EP and LB stack if you are a monk I’m 99 % certain he will tell you to take the question to the design team.

BTW,
1) I don’t get why any archer would want to use EP, the minus 2 to attack would actually means less damage per round.

2) You can’t make potions of LB so how is he going to buff himself? UMD? Not a very reliable tactic until really high levels.

3) it takes a move action to draw an item regardless if it is potion or a wand since Quick draw don’t apply to wands and potions

3a)and it is a standard action do use either of them and drinking a potion provokes AoO. So is this tactic really useful?

LOL, "of course the quote is out of context." Agenda driven arguments lead to ridiculous logical positions, and dishonest tactics and arguments.

1)I am 99% certain that he would say that yes LB would work with unarmed strikes and that a silly argument like "you don't carry your unarmed strikes" is not worthy of a design team FAQ. Really, I have to learn to ignore the ridiculous arguments made by some on these threads. They are not meant to be helpful, but just to advance the agenda of NO at all cost.

2)This question has grown beyond Zen Archer because as usual some of the responders have chosen to take a position that makes LB useless (at least to unarmed fighters) in order to say NO to the combo proposed. So now, the unarmed fighting Ranger can't use it. The Unarmed sorcerer monk can't use it (and whoever else). Please. Let's face it, no paizo writers were sitting around saying, "you know, I don't want unarmed fighters to use lead blade so lets put in language that says you have to carry the weapon to exclude unarmed fighter." When they want to exclude unarmed attacks from something they come out and specifically say it. So when I see responders grasping at straws to come up with some ridiculous argument to prevent unarmed fighters from using lead blade I have to call BS and call it often and remember to tag them as the disingenuous posters that they are.

3) I don't know if you know that you can make monk builds that can cast LB or EP on themselves without potions or UMD, but you can and I have so.... Further, UMD is quite effective and you can make it effective at medium levels. Further, there is a such thing as a wizard who helps out his parties members. Further, if the combo is implausible why are some responders going out of their way with ridiculous arguments to try and stop it. Oh, I already stated why.

3a) Have you heard of pre-buffs?


I should point out I'm. Not saying no to invalidate the combo. You can easily achieve what is wanted through at least two druid spells I can think of both which can be used on potions.

I do think all this stuff to contrive a higher damage roll for one of the best damage dealing classes in the game is wholly un necessary. However, that's completely seprate from whether the rules allow you to do it.


Zark wrote:

Of course the quote is out of context, and that was intentional. Just quoting something without looking at the big picture leads to confusion.

Look at the link to James Jacobs. If you link to this thread and ask him if EP and LB stack if you are a monk I’m 99 % certain he will tell you to take the question to the design team.

BTW,
1) I don’t get why any archer would want to use EP, the minus 2 to attack would actually means less damage per round.

2) You can’t make potions of LB so how is he going to buff himself? UMD? Not a very reliable tactic until really high levels.

3) it takes a move action to draw an item regardless if it is potion or a wand since Quick draw don’t apply to wands and potions

3a)and it is a standard action do use either of them and drinking a potion provokes AoO. So is this tactic really useful?

spring loaded wrist sheath


From the thread >>Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!<<

James Jacobs wrote:
Zark wrote:

A second question on that topic.

Would enlarge person and lead blades stack if we are talking about a monks unarmed strike?
I’m aware this is actually two questions since Lead blades says: “All melee weapons you are carrying when the spell is cast deal damage as if one size category larger than they actually are.”

So I guess the questios are:
1) Does the monk count as carrying his unarmed strike?
1a) Does enlarge person and lead blades stack if we are talking about a monks unarmed strike?

BTW, I’m not going to pretend I don’t have an agenda, link

First off... admitting you have an agenda is basically telling me to reply to any question with:

Your GM gets to make the call, not me.

If I were your GM, I would rule the following on your two questions:

1) No.
1a) No.


Wrist Sheath, spring loaded:

This item works like a standard wrist sheath, but releasing an item from it is an swift action. Preparing the sheath for this use requires cranking the sheath’s tiny gears and springs into place (a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity).

Good for storing a wand, a smoke stick, a properly shaped potion vial, etc.

Wrist Sheath:

This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. Alternatively, you may store up to 1 pound of ammunition in a wrist sheath. As a move action, you can bend your wrist to cause some or all of these items to drop into your hand (provoking attacks of opportunity as normal). You have a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to oppose the Perception check of someone observing or frisking you regarding items in the sheath. You can only wear one wrist sheath per arm.

Liberty's Edge

I just reread the text on Enlarge Person and came across a line that, although not a definitive RAW, is surely in the realm of RAI.

"Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."

Now some will say that Lead Blades, Strong Jaw, and Gravity Bow do not actually increase a character's size so this rule doesn't apply. However, it could be argued the intent is to not allow any stacking of size increasing effects.


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Ok Driver, lets say a Monk carries his unarmed strikes. Lead blades still does not work, as the Monk's size has not changed, and his unarmed damage is based directly off his size. RAI? Maybe, or maybe not. RAW? Certainly.

As for the agenda, it seems to me that YOU have an agenda. It looks like you didn't post on these forums to get the community's opinion on the matter, you posted because you believed you were right and wanted others to agree with you.

I'm not saying this is true, I'm saying that's what it looks like right now. If you start making posts that are more respectful and have detailed, logical arguments in them, than maybe you will get a better response.

Furthermore, as has been established more than once here, strong jaw not only works RAW but also provides a significantly larger bonus.


Uhh monks don't have any special size rules. If lead blades does affect them it has the same benefit as on any other melee weapon.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Driver 325 yards wrote:

*** Agenda driven people - and you can see them from a mile away because the extremeness of their positions have no boundaries - I can live without.

***

I absolutely agree. You can usually recognize them by their rudeness, their unwillingness to participate in reasoned discussions, their spiteful disdain for anyone's opinion that doesn't match with their own, and their self-righteous assertions that anyone who doesn't agree with them must be a looney toon.

Digital Products Assistant

Removed some posts and replies. Please leave personal insults out of the conversation.


Havoq wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Good for storing a wand, a smoke stick, a properly shaped potion vial, etc.

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks for the info :)

I wasn't aware of that item.


Driver 325 yards wrote:
[stuff

And you don't have an agenda? We all have an agenda, but some are just so bent on sticking to it that they do anything, including isulting people, to hold on to it.

I don't know if lead blades can be used on an unarmed strike. My guess is no. If you don't agree, that is fine.

No one in this thread was out to get you or to spoil the fun for you.

If you are the GM you decide what goes. If you are not the GM ask your GM.

We can however agree on something. Gauss is a very helpful person.

I can also inform you that he, just like Mojorat, have been around a long time on these messageboards and he is also a very appreciated and respected poster.
Of all the thousands of posters he is actually one of my top 3 favorite posters :)

Unlike someone like wraithstrike (another great person) that specializes in rules, Gauss is actually also very good with solid advice when it comes to builds and practical stuff. Not only is Gauss a helpful and Component, he is also friendly and polite. He is a real gentlemen, just like DeathQuaker (another favorite of mine) is a perfect lady.

The cool thing with Gauss is that you can argue with him and even if he don’t agree with you he will be helpful, calm and polite. I wish I could be more like him and you could learn a lot by reading posts by Gauss, DeathQuaker, Mojorat, wraithstrike and other people on these messsageboards.

In the end it’s not only about being right it also about making these messageboards a fun and friendly place


For any class other than a Monk, I'd completely agree, unarmed strike doesn't benefit from Lead Blades. But the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability specifically states:
"A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

That seems pretty clear cut to me. Lead Blades is a spell that enhances weapons, a Monk's unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon for such spells. All this ado because it uses the word "carry"? Really?

And again, Lead Blades does not alter the size of weapons, just treats damage "as if" they were a size larger. (given the title of the spell, it seems to imply the weapons strike a heavier blow, but whatever)

How that stacks with Enlarge, Ki Arrow, etc, that's open for interpretation. My take on RAW would mean Enlarge, Lead Blades and Ki Arrow do work together, Gravity Bow has no affect. i.e. Ki Arrow means arrow base damage replaced by IUS damage. IUS damage increased by both Enlarge and Lead Blades. Could see someone saying those two shouldn't stack because they're both size increases, but I'd disagree due to "as if". I'd also argue that any kind of enhancement to the arrow itself would not apply, e.g. if it were a bane arrow, it would be wasted and no extra damage would apply, though any Bow enhancements still apply (i.e. arrow's been changed by Ki, but Bow enhancements add on top of arrow--with some stacking exceptions).

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